Elder Scrolls Bethesda does it AGAIN - promotional Elsweyr tabletop adventure is plagiarized from D&D module

[rusty_shackleford]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

Except in your analogy, tolkien would be responsible for it.
this might surprise you but there was an entire bethesda game set in cyrodiil, largely written by the same writers as the earlier games.

Yes, there was an entire Bethesda game that completely destroyed Elder Scrolls lore, ruining one of the most imaginative fantasy settings in gaming and turning it into bland and boring genericness. Fun fact: Michael Kirkbride even mentioned in an interview that he didn't play Oblivion for a long time because it retconned a lot of the lore he, among others, had contributed to TES before it.

Michael Kirkbride is the one who is responsible for Tiber Septim turning it into a forest you dunce
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos

 

[JarlFrank]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

Except in your analogy, tolkien would be responsible for it.
this might surprise you but there was an entire bethesda game set in cyrodiil, largely written by the same writers as the earlier games.

Yes, there was an entire Bethesda game that completely destroyed Elder Scrolls lore, ruining one of the most imaginative fantasy settings in gaming and turning it into bland and boring genericness. Fun fact: Michael Kirkbride even mentioned in an interview that he didn't play Oblivion for a long time because it retconned a lot of the lore he, among others, had contributed to TES before it.

Michael Kirkbride is the one who is responsible for Tiber Septim turning it into a forest you dunce
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos

He's the one who made up the retcon when Bethesda decided to change the landscape of Cyrodiil. He's not the one who said "HEYYY LET'S RETCON THIS AREA TO BE MORE GENERIC"

 

[rusty_shackleford]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

Except in your analogy, tolkien would be responsible for it.
this might surprise you but there was an entire bethesda game set in cyrodiil, largely written by the same writers as the earlier games.

Yes, there was an entire Bethesda game that completely destroyed Elder Scrolls lore, ruining one of the most imaginative fantasy settings in gaming and turning it into bland and boring genericness. Fun fact: Michael Kirkbride even mentioned in an interview that he didn't play Oblivion for a long time because it retconned a lot of the lore he, among others, had contributed to TES before it.

Michael Kirkbride is the one who is responsible for Tiber Septim turning it into a forest you dunce
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos

He's the one who made up the retcon when Bethesda decided to change the landscape of Cyrodiil. He's not the one who said "HEYYY LET'S RETCON THIS AREA TO BE MORE GENERIC"

You really think the author of fucking c0da would be averse to doing such a thing?
Really?

 

[JarlFrank]

Case in point:

 

[JarlFrank]

And yes, the author of fucking c0da wouldn't change a province that is unique and cool as fuck into the most generic fantasyland ever depicted in a PC game

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Case in point:

You've never had regrets about anything you've written at any point in your life?
The entire TES universe is a dream by a single entity where people(who don't actually exist) that realize they're dreaming can become gods by simply refusing to not exist and then can alter reality(this is a pretty important part of morrowind), and you're getting butthurt about a jungle being turned into a forest.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Dumb_Shitdumb: He did that
JarlFrank: No, he didn't, here's what he said
Dumb_Shitdumb: lol ok but maybe he regrets it u cant know!!!1

 

[JarlFrank]

You've never had regrets about anything you've written at any point in your life?
The entire TES universe is a dream by a single entity where people(who don't actually exist) that realize they're dreaming can become gods by simply refusing to not exist and then can alter reality(this is a pretty important part of morrowind), and you're getting butthurt about a jungle being turned into a forest.

I'm getting butthurt about Bethesda taking one of the most imaginative fantasy setting ever and then turning the mainline games into the most boring and generic fantasyland ever.

Morrowind was one of my favorite games when I was a teen, and it heavily influenced my own worldbuilding and game design ideas. And I loved all the lore tidbits that hinted at the other provinces of Tamriel. It all sounded so cool and imaginative.
And then Oblivion came out and Cyrodiil was turned into a generic pseudo-medieval fantasy land. It's not just replacing jungle with forest. It's a removal of everything that made it special.

The whole metaphysical part of TES only exists in the lorebooks by now. Is there anything of it that really appears in the mainline games, Oblivion and Skyrim? No, it's just generic fantasyland with all the religion, all the politics, all the cool shit removed.
Yeah, Skyrim has some minor politics and religion in it, with the ban on Talos worship, the Stormcloak rebellion, etc. Yet still what you actually see in the game is mostly generic fantasyland stuff. At least Skyrim is better than Oblivion in that regard, but it doesn't reach the heights of Morrowind with its Great House politics, heretics within the Almsivi Temple, etc etc.

Oblivion didn't just turn a jungle into a forest, it also turned the Imperial City from a massive Venice style canal city into a tiny one-island circle city, it removed any political backstabbing between different regional nobles, it removed cool religious shit like the moth priests, etc etc etc.

You can't deny that the setting was completely butchered and turned into a crippled version of itself by Oblivion, and it has never recovered.

We'll never see any of the cool shit described in the First Edition Pocket Guide to the Empire in an official Bethesda product. This era is over. The old Elder Scrolls setting is dead, replaced by generic fantasy that only bears the name and keeps the old in-game books. Other than that it has nothing in common anymore with what TES used to be.

 

[Mastermind]

> most lore dense entry

> They have a dedicated "loremaster" position

> The guy who does it was a D&D campaign writer for decades.

> The lead writer is the former director of roleplaying design and development from WotC.

Oh wow! That means it must be good!

Or, an alternative point of view could be:

• being 'lore-dense' doesn't mean jack shit
• having a dedicated 'loremaster' doesn't mean jack shit
  
• D&D campaign writing is mostly utter shit
• WotC sucks balls

Joined: May 28, 2018

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Dumb_Shitdumb: He did that
JarlFrank: No, he didn't, here's what he said
Dumb_Shitdumb: lol ok but maybe he regrets it u cant know!!!1

But that's not at all what he said. Kirkbride has been adamant over the years that he favors an "open source" lore where anyone can contribute and there is no official canon. If anything, Cyrodiil not being a jungle was him getting exactly what he asked for.

You've never had regrets about anything you've written at any point in your life?
The entire TES universe is a dream by a single entity where people(who don't actually exist) that realize they're dreaming can become gods by simply refusing to not exist and then can alter reality(this is a pretty important part of morrowind), and you're getting butthurt about a jungle being turned into a forest.

I'm getting butthurt about Bethesda taking one of the most imaginative fantasy setting ever and then turning the mainline games into the most boring and generic fantasyland ever.

Morrowind was one of my favorite games when I was a teen, and it heavily influenced my own worldbuilding and game design ideas. And I loved all the lore tidbits that hinted at the other provinces of Tamriel. It all sounded so cool and imaginative.
And then Oblivion came out and Cyrodiil was turned into a generic pseudo-medieval fantasy land. It's not just replacing jungle with forest. It's a removal of everything that made it special.

The whole metaphysical part of TES only exists in the lorebooks by now. Is there anything of it that really appears in the mainline games, Oblivion and Skyrim? No, it's just generic fantasyland with all the religion, all the politics, all the cool shit removed.
Yeah, Skyrim has some minor politics and religion in it, with the ban on Talos worship, the Stormcloak rebellion, etc. Yet still what you actually see in the game is mostly generic fantasyland stuff. At least Skyrim is better than Oblivion in that regard, but it doesn't reach the heights of Morrowind with its Great House politics, heretics within the Almsivi Temple, etc etc.

Oblivion didn't just turn a jungle into a forest, it also turned the Imperial City from a massive Venice style canal city into a tiny one-island circle city, it removed any political backstabbing between different regional nobles, it removed cool religious shit like the moth priests, etc etc etc.

You can't deny that the setting was completely butchered and turned into a crippled version of itself by Oblivion, and it has never recovered.

We'll never see any of the cool shit described in the First Edition Pocket Guide to the Empire in an official Bethesda product. This era is over. The old Elder Scrolls setting is dead, replaced by generic fantasy that only bears the name and keeps the old in-game books. Other than that it has nothing in common anymore with what TES used to be.

just so you know

Spoiler

jungle cyrodiil exists in ESO

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

You've never had regrets about anything you've written at any point in your life?
The entire TES universe is a dream by a single entity where people(who don't actually exist) that realize they're dreaming can become gods by simply refusing to not exist and then can alter reality(this is a pretty important part of morrowind), and you're getting butthurt about a jungle being turned into a forest.

I'm getting butthurt about Bethesda taking one of the most imaginative fantasy setting ever and then turning the mainline games into the most boring and generic fantasyland ever.

Morrowind was one of my favorite games when I was a teen, and it heavily influenced my own worldbuilding and game design ideas. And I loved all the lore tidbits that hinted at the other provinces of Tamriel. It all sounded so cool and imaginative.
And then Oblivion came out and Cyrodiil was turned into a generic pseudo-medieval fantasy land. It's not just replacing jungle with forest. It's a removal of everything that made it special.

The whole metaphysical part of TES only exists in the lorebooks by now. Is there anything of it that really appears in the mainline games, Oblivion and Skyrim? No, it's just generic fantasyland with all the religion, all the politics, all the cool shit removed.
Yeah, Skyrim has some minor politics and religion in it, with the ban on Talos worship, the Stormcloak rebellion, etc. Yet still what you actually see in the game is mostly generic fantasyland stuff. At least Skyrim is better than Oblivion in that regard, but it doesn't reach the heights of Morrowind with its Great House politics, heretics within the Almsivi Temple, etc etc.

Oblivion didn't just turn a jungle into a forest, it also turned the Imperial City from a massive Venice style canal city into a tiny one-island circle city, it removed any political backstabbing between different regional nobles, it removed cool religious shit like the moth priests, etc etc etc.

You can't deny that the setting was completely butchered and turned into a crippled version of itself by Oblivion, and it has never recovered.

We'll never see any of the cool shit described in the First Edition Pocket Guide to the Empire in an official Bethesda product. This era is over. The old Elder Scrolls setting is dead, replaced by generic fantasy that only bears the name and keeps the old in-game books. Other than that it has nothing in common anymore with what TES used to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author
You could have just invoked this, you know. It would have saved a lot of typing.

 

[JarlFrank]

just so you know

Spoiler

jungle cyrodiil exists in ESO

At least that's something

Too bad it's an MMO and probably doesn't include any of the other cultural elements that make Cyrodiil the cool location it was supposed to be. I dunno, maybe it does. It's still an MMO

 

[Mastermind]

just so you know

Spoiler

jungle cyrodiil exists in ESO

At least that's something

Too bad it's an MMO and probably doesn't include any of the other cultural elements that make Cyrodiil the cool location it was supposed to be. I dunno, maybe it does. It's still an MMO

guy who never played a game and doesn't know anything about it argues about it for 3 pages, welcome to the codex

 

[JarlFrank]

My point is that Bethesda killed Morrowind-era Elder Scrolls and we'll never get it back

I can never forgive them for that.

 

[Goi~Yaas~Dinn]

My point is that Bethesda killed Morrowind-era Elder Scrolls and we'll never get it back

I can never forgive them for that.

You could help keep it alive, you know. That's the wonderful thing about fandoms. Christ knows Classic ES is in a better position for that than some other beloved franchises I've lost:

https://www.dfworkshop.net/
https://openmw.org/en/
https://github.com/afritz1/OpenTESArena

That last one especially could use some volunteers. I don't see why you need even acknowledge any of the newer shit exists: modern day gaming is god-fucking-awful and 'gamers' have terrible taste these days. Sit back and relax in your own little self-made oasis with like-minded individuals and be content.

 

[Cross]

Michael Kirkbride is the one who is responsible for Tiber Septim turning it into a forest you dunce

Yes, under obvious pressure from his higher-ups.

It wouldn't be the first time either:

 

[santino27]

2 pages that deserve to be retardoed. WTF does any of this have to do with the topic?

 

[MWaser]

2 pages that deserve to be retardoed. WTF does any of this have to do with the topic?

There's nothing to say about the main topic other than "lmao Bethesda is stupid and incompetent", to be completely fair.

 

[Darth Canoli]

You can all laugh but besides being an imbecile, this guy had the right idea, after all the shit the industry vomited on us the past decade, they should pay to do old games remakes.

Except they shouldn't dumb the gameplay down, for once but try to improve it instead even if only slightly (that's the tricky part).

 

[retinoid]

So modern Bethesda ruin other people's franchises like Fallout with their shitty writers, ruin their OWN franchise by destroying the lore written by former (competent) employees of the 1990s and early 2000s, and when it seems like they're finally getting their shit together with a promising release, turns out it's plagiarized.

Can't wait for IGN and Polygon to come rushing to their defense.

 

[Yosharian]

> most lore dense entry

> They have a dedicated "loremaster" position

> The guy who does it was a D&D campaign writer for decades.

> The lead writer is the former director of roleplaying design and development from WotC.

Oh wow! That means it must be good!

Or, an alternative point of view could be:

• being 'lore-dense' doesn't mean jack shit
• having a dedicated 'loremaster' doesn't mean jack shit
  
• D&D campaign writing is mostly utter shit
• WotC sucks balls

Joined: May 28, 2018

 

[The_Mask]

Bethesda should have taken ideas...



... from Elsweyr.

 

[cosmicray]

2 pages that deserve to be retardoed. WTF does any of this have to do with the topic?

There's nothing to say about the main topic other than "lmao Bethesda is stupid and incompetent", to be completely fair.

Almost.

 

[Infinitron]

Yep totally just an innocent reskin which is why they changed "wagon" to "cart".

Lol at all the shills in that thread.

 

[Ismaul]

I agreed with you until I went and read part of the thread.

The point made isn't that it's not a reskin. It's that it was not made for publication but as a private campaign. So of course the GM reused stuff from WotC adventures, because he used them as base, this being the very reason they exist.

If this is true, then the GM isn't to blame. But the person who thought it was publishable is. And therefore so is the company.