Elder Scrolls Bethesda does it AGAIN - promotional Elsweyr tabletop adventure is plagiarized from D&D module

[rusty_shackleford]

Elder Scrolls Online isn't developed by Bethesda, and that wasn't a Bethesda facebook account.

URL:
https://www.facebook.com/elderscrollsonline.anz/photos/a.385626641836018/850888345309843/

elderscrollsonline.anz

ESO is a separate entity in every way sans lore from the rest of the elder scrolls games.

No even Elder Scrolls lore fans often ignore ESO because it's sometimes contradictory with established ES lore, even beyond the already existing retcons of Oblivion and Skyrim versus Morrowind.

Lore people often consider ESO lore separately from ES lore.

Nice sources.
Who are these "lore people"? Because it's not the Imperial Library, which is essentially the official word on TES lore after Bethesda themselves.
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/new-lore-faq

Is The Elder Scrolls Online “canon”?
Yup. Again, it has been explicitly stated by Bethesda.

Also, it's not the very popular reddit TESLore community(regularly has Bethsoft writers posting there,) which again generally considers ESO to be a great addition:
https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/814og7/what_is_the_general_consensus_about_what_eso_has/

ESO has done more for the lore than any individual game since Morrowind.

There's some mild wonkiness in some of the vanilla game lore, as a side effect of the fact that the game didn't bring on somebody to oversee the lore until later in development and there's only so much one person can do. Even then, basegame ESO significantly fleshes out the metaphysics behind Daedra, Tower Lore, and the post-Alessian history of the Ayleids.

All of the DLC lore has been top quality, imo. Even the small things, like the Justice System, are lore goldmines.

Here's Lady N, largely considered to be one of the more authoritative voices on TES lore(also the wife of Michael Kirkbride,) speaking about ESO 4 years ago when it was in a much worse state: https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/2rkdfs/about_eso_can_it_fit_in_canon_do_you_accept_it_as/

Zenimax paid for it, so it's canon any way you slice it. Unless your definition of "canon" is "only the things I like."

There are metric tons of new lore, bucketfulls of expansion and validation of previously obscure lore, and we get to see half of Tamriel in game like never before. Does it do some things I disagree with? Of course. Does it make concessions for the sake of gameplay? Certainly. Like every game has before and will after.

The quicker we dispatch with the idea that the game doesn't merit discussion (which is what you're saying when you call it noncanon) , the better off we'll all be.

..and right below it:

ESO is the greatest dump of new and interesting lore added to the universe since Morrowind. Hands down, no contest.

I haven't even gotten to the texts added yet, but just through quests and NPC dialogue there's a colossal amount to parse through, and a large portion of it is really great stuff.

The loremaster's archive is one of the most important things ESO gave to elder scrolls lore, and unsurprisingly it's in fact hosted on the Imperial Library: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/loremasters-archive-qa
Know why? Because Schick isn't the "ESO lore guy", he's the loremaster of the entire elder scrolls franchise.
You can kick and scream all you want, but ESO is a definitive part of the TES lore. And it has been a great addition, far better than anything Bethesda themselves have done since Morrowind.


So who are these "lore people" you mentioned?

 

[JarlFrank]

Nothing post Morrowind is true canon anyway. All the retcons are shit-tier fan fiction. And on UESP the lore pages are labeled by where the lore comes from so ESO lore has its own tag. Which is enough of a separation that serious lore people can just ignore it.

We've reached a point of shitty retcons in the "official" lore where the only ones who are actually producing canon lore right now are the modders of Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel. Funny how it goes, huh?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Nothing post Morrowind is true canon anyway. All the retcons are shit-tier fan fiction. And on UESP the lore pages are labeled by where the lore comes from so ESO lore has its own tag. Which is enough of a separation that serious lore people can just ignore it.

We've reached a point of shitty retcons in the "official" lore where the only ones who are actually producing canon lore right now are the modders of Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel. Funny how it goes, huh?

You could have just posted this, you know:

It's new therefore I hate it even though I don't even know what it is

 

[Feargus Jewhart]

This is the level of incompetence where you wish there is someone sabotaging them internally, rather than wanting to accept how fucking incompetent these pundits are. Jesus.

 

[MWaser]

canon = things I like and agree with

 

[JarlFrank]

Nothing post Morrowind is true canon anyway. All the retcons are shit-tier fan fiction. And on UESP the lore pages are labeled by where the lore comes from so ESO lore has its own tag. Which is enough of a separation that serious lore people can just ignore it.

We've reached a point of shitty retcons in the "official" lore where the only ones who are actually producing canon lore right now are the modders of Tamriel Rebuilt and Project Tamriel. Funny how it goes, huh?

You could have just posted this, you know:

It's new therefore I hate it even though I don't even know what it is

First Edition Pocket Guide to the Empire is canon.
Anything newer that contradicts it is, by definition, not canon because it's retarded retcon.

 

[JarlFrank]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

 

[ZeniBot]

canon = things I like and agree with

You're mistaking canon with headcanon.
Also which is the bigger joke this or ProJared. AAAAAAYYYY

 

[Metro]

How hard is it to write C-grade fictional scenarios that you have to plagiarize? There's plenty of Elderp Scrolls lore out there to write some self-contained intro to Elsweyr adventure just ripping off your own stuff.

 

[MWaser]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

 

[Raghar]

Original TES is actually very hard to write politically properly. When you count intelligent species, you have:
HE, WE, Bretons + lesser variation of Bretons, furry, lizardmen, DE, And barbarians (which might be only related to central empire species). (Also orcs and goblins, and various treefolk.)
Considering these are sovereign countries loosely connected to empire, and only permit empire officials to move without restrictions, they tended to stay species homogenous. And thus theirs politics is VASTLY different between each country.
Thus there are 6+ different species with each own politic and theirs reasons for staying in empire. Obviously new writers would be unable to understand intricacy of mutipolar politic system.

 

[Metro]

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series.

Well, he's German and he wrote a book. So there's that.

 

[FeelTheRads]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

Fascinating. And the point is what?
When someone who's not "official" says something is not canon, it means they think it goes against what was established. And that the meaning of canon is pretty much meaningless then if you can just retcon everything. That's it.

But wow, you figured out that the license holders have the final word on what's canon. Amazing insight.

 

[V_K]

Elsweyr

 

[Seethe]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Also canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

Your headcanon means shit.

 

[MWaser]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

Fascinating. And the point is what?
When someone who's not "official" says something is not canon, it means they think it goes against what was established. And that the meaning of canon is pretty much meaningless then if you can just retcon everything. That's it.

But wow, you figured out that the license holders have the final word on what's canon. Amazing insight.

If people here weren't so afraid of having opinions then they could just honestly talk about their preference for the lore and setting, but if instead people are willing to make bold claims such as "this official material is not actually canon", then I am also willing to disparage that claim.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Yes, idiot, when they're saying it's not canon, it means it goes against the original established canon. What's so fucking hard to understand? It's not about fucking preference. You have some originally established canon and then you have shit that retcons that. Officially it's still called canon. However, canon means nothing in this case. It's either canon or "anything goes". Can't be both.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

And Shelob described Mordor as a place that humans and elves would frequently travel through until Sauron decided to set up camp. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE LORE CHANGED! TOLKIEN RUINED EVERYTHING, LORD OF THE RINGS IS NON-CANON

 

[JarlFrank]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

 

[JarlFrank]

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

And Shelob described Mordor as a place that humans and elves would frequently travel through until Sauron decided to set up camp. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE LORE CHANGED! TOLKIEN RUINED EVERYTHING, LORD OF THE RINGS IS NON-CANON

Yes, until Sauron decided to set up camp.

Until Sauron decided to set up camp.

Which is an actual in-world event that happened and led to the status quo of the LotR books, which are one of the most important entries in the Middle Earth world.

There's no retcon here. That's just things changing because of events happening.

Meanwhile Cyrodiil in the first Pocket Guide which was supposed to be accurate during the Morrowind era of ES lore = jungle with plenty of different local cultures etc.
Cyrodiil in Oblivion which plays only a few years after Morrowind, chronologically: generic medieval fantasyland, no jungles, Imperial City is much smaller than it was in previous lore, none of the intricate cultures that were previously mentioned are there.

There's a clear difference between events changing the status quo, and retarded hacks deciding they don't like the established worldbuilding anymore, throwing it all away, and making up some hacky excuse as a retcon.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

Except in your analogy, tolkien would be responsible for it.
this might surprise you but there was an entire bethesda game set in cyrodiil, largely written by the same writers as the earlier games.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

And Shelob described Mordor as a place that humans and elves would frequently travel through until Sauron decided to set up camp. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE LORE CHANGED! TOLKIEN RUINED EVERYTHING, LORD OF THE RINGS IS NON-CANON

Yes, until Sauron decided to set up camp.

Until Sauron decided to set up camp.

Which is an actual in-world event that happened and led to the status quo of the LotR books, which are one of the most important entries in the Middle Earth world.

There's no retcon here. That's just things changing because of events happening.

Meanwhile Cyrodiil in the first Pocket Guide which was supposed to be accurate during the Morrowind era of ES lore = jungle with plenty of different local cultures etc.
Cyrodiil in Oblivion which plays only a few years after Morrowind, chronologically: generic medieval fantasyland, no jungles, Imperial City is much smaller than it was in previous lore, none of the intricate cultures that were previously mentioned are there.

There's a clear difference between events changing the status quo, and retarded hacks deciding they don't like the established worldbuilding anymore, throwing it all away, and making up some hacky excuse as a retcon.

"Sauron changed the area to fit his needs" -- yes, brilliant!
"Tiber Septim, a living god, changed the area to fit his needs" -- oh my god I can't believe it this upsets my german autism

 

[JarlFrank]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

Except in your analogy, tolkien would be responsible for it.
this might surprise you but there was an entire bethesda game set in cyrodiil, largely written by the same writers as the earlier games.

Yes, there was an entire Bethesda game that completely destroyed Elder Scrolls lore, ruining one of the most imaginative fantasy settings in gaming and turning it into bland and boring genericness. Fun fact: Michael Kirkbride even mentioned in an interview that he didn't play Oblivion for a long time because it retconned a lot of the lore he, among others, had contributed to TES before it.

 

[JarlFrank]

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

And Shelob described Mordor as a place that humans and elves would frequently travel through until Sauron decided to set up camp. I CAN'T BELIEVE THE LORE CHANGED! TOLKIEN RUINED EVERYTHING, LORD OF THE RINGS IS NON-CANON

Yes, until Sauron decided to set up camp.

Until Sauron decided to set up camp.

Which is an actual in-world event that happened and led to the status quo of the LotR books, which are one of the most important entries in the Middle Earth world.

There's no retcon here. That's just things changing because of events happening.

Meanwhile Cyrodiil in the first Pocket Guide which was supposed to be accurate during the Morrowind era of ES lore = jungle with plenty of different local cultures etc.
Cyrodiil in Oblivion which plays only a few years after Morrowind, chronologically: generic medieval fantasyland, no jungles, Imperial City is much smaller than it was in previous lore, none of the intricate cultures that were previously mentioned are there.

There's a clear difference between events changing the status quo, and retarded hacks deciding they don't like the established worldbuilding anymore, throwing it all away, and making up some hacky excuse as a retcon.

"Sauron changed the area to fit his needs" -- yes, brilliant!
"Tiber Septim, a living god, changed the area to fit his needs" -- oh my god I can't believe it this upsets my german autism

More like:
Tolkien: Things happen in Middle Earth based on a certain logic, characters have motivations, everything is rooted in the lore and worldbuilding I have worked on for years.
Post-Morrowind Bethesda: LOL LET'S CHANGE A COOL SETTING TO A LAME GENERIC SETTING BECAUSE GENERIC FANTASY HAS MORE MASS APPEAL, ALSO LET'S COME UP WITH A BULLSHIT EXCUSE FOR IT TO APPEASE THE LOREFAGS WHO EVEN CARES LOL

 

[rusty_shackleford]

canon = things I like and agree with

Canon = the actual canon that was established when Bethesda were still making decent games.
Not canon = all the shitty retcons they used to destroy everything cool in the Elder Scroll setting.

I just looked at screenshots of Cyrodiil in ESO. It's not a jungle. Therefore ESO is also not canon.

Nothing gives you the actual authority to decide what is or isn't canon in The Elder Scrolls series. If the IP owners and designers making future sequels to a franchise retcon shit and make it the new canon, then it is canon, whether you like it or not. It might suck dick, it might be stupid, but Word of God makes it canon and what fans say was better in the earlier canon doesn't change the fact that the newest approved script is what dictates current canon of a series.

So if in 100 years the Tolkien Estate heirs sold the IP to some big company who would then hire some writer to write official LotR sequels and they'd completely butcher the lore and change everything that made LotR cool, would that also be "canon"?

Or would it be retarded fanfiction written by people who have no connection to the original work, other than being paid by the holders of the IP?

Except in your analogy, tolkien would be responsible for it.
this might surprise you but there was an entire bethesda game set in cyrodiil, largely written by the same writers as the earlier games.

Yes, there was an entire Bethesda game that completely destroyed Elder Scrolls lore, ruining one of the most imaginative fantasy settings in gaming and turning it into bland and boring genericness. Fun fact: Michael Kirkbride even mentioned in an interview that he didn't play Oblivion for a long time because it retconned a lot of the lore he, among others, had contributed to TES before it.

Michael Kirkbride is the one who is responsible for Tiber Septim turning it into a forest you dunce
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/many-headed-talos