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Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
9,904
Location
Frostfell
Here is a proof . This not includes ToB. Only SoA(shadows of Amn).

RQ71x7L.png



First of all, why necromancer? Because I like necromancy. Necromancers loses a lot of powerful illusion spells. Simulacrum, Mirror Image(...) but can prepare a additional spell per day and enemies does a save against necromancy spells with -2 penalty. Which is amazing considering that LoB inflates enemy hp and spells which deals direct damage becomes less powerful than spells that OHK enemies. Finger of Death and Wail of the Banshee are the two most iconic examples.

By putting in a sequencer/contigency two lower resist + a greater malison, you can reduce up to 60% of enemy MR and make him deal a save vs spell at -8 penalty(-4 from malison + -2 from necromancer specialization + -2 from FoD spell itself), so, against Firkraag, the Red Dragon, great malison has a 95% chance of sticking. 65% chance of Firkraag failing his save against the FoD if the malison is on, 45% if it isn't. Combined, that's a 64% chance of failing his save. Then it's 95% to beat the remaining magic resistance with the FoD, for an overall 60.8% chance of the two-round kill vs the dragon. If you try to kill the same enemy using damaging spells, would take far more time on LoB with far less chance of success.

My end game stats. When I finished the base game and started ToB
Jla9nQl.png


Chapters 1 to 4

On chapter 1, i Decided to start by importing a necromancer. I need at least animate dead. The initial dungeon was no problem to my army of animated skeletons and summons also receive the LoB stat inflation. On Chapter 2, i got my ass kicked trying to reach Firkraag by adamantine golems. Ater it, quickly moved to chapter 3 and did a lot of side quests. On chapter 3, after leveling a bit, I decided to try again and "Fingered" the first Dragon Firkraag. By using summons as distraction and casting two lower resist and a greater malison, i Fingered the Red Dragon and OHKilled him

mhuDxVq.png


On chapter 4, nothing that hard happened until the jon irenicus battle, where he was relative easy to my army of summons however, the thieves could OHK me and i had to try 3 times, not thanks to him, but thanks to backstabbing thieves. Prepared 4 stoneskins for that battle. The stoneskins was not against him. was against the backstabing thieves.

On Chapter 5, the mindlayer dungeon was not hard but was tedious since is just waiting until my summons kill then all. I wold't try kill then knowing that they can insta dominate and cause game over. despite their great magical resistance, cloudkill + skeleton squad does a good job against then. On the Drow city, i did the route which involves sleeping with a drow and fighting the Demon Lord which can only be harmed by +5 weapons. Not even my Planetar had chance against it. The solution? Stop Time, Triggers and so on to reduce his saves and after 3 LR and a GM, i stopped the time and casted a couple of Finger of Deaths. That demon lord got Fingered like a Succubus the point of being a necromancer is to finger succubus

vDtnjJZ.png


After i've killed him, now the entire city was against me. I has almost no high tier spells left. What should i do? RUN!!!!. Lucky i had a haste and just RUSHED faster as i can. Haste + The Paws of the Cheetah made me able to escape that harsh situation. Delivered the Eggs and now an back to the surface. Bohdi on chapter 6 was easy and she was also fingered like a succubus.

In chapter 7, i had some problems with the adamantine golems, but nothing that some magical swords and planetars can't solve. The black dragon? Also fingered like a succubus. Everything was easy until i reached hell. Did all challenges on good side since i'm Chaotic Good.

For the final battle, I placed tons of skull traps via rest scumming and even with it, in Legacy of Bhaal the final battle was hard.
JepgV5W.png


The final SoA battle was very hard. I've used :
  • 5 tier 9/epic spells 3 -> summon planetar and 2 stop time
  • 7 yier 8 > 5 * horrid wilting + pierce shield (and forgot to unmemorize the spell trigger)
  • 6 tier 7 > 3 finger of death + limited wish + Mordekainen's Sword
  • 4 tier 6 spells > Two Invisible stalker + Spell deflection + True sigh
  • 2 tier 5 spells > Two lower resists<
  • 1 tier 4 spell > Greater Malison
  • 5 tier 3 spells > 5 skull traps
  • Zero tier 1/2 spells. I'm a necromancer. Necromancers can't cast the good low level illusion spells.
Total : 30 spells in battle

In addition to the spells used on the battle, i also used a LIMITED WISH to use a one time wish and cast a chain contingency and a sequencer and a spell trigger BUT don't remember which spells i picked and i don't have the usage on my spellbook. So we can sum + 9 to the spell usage. I also placed a lot of skull traps and rested, placed and rested on the arena, considering 5 skull traps per rest and 4 rests, I've casted 20 skull traps before the battle. That results in 59 spells being used to kill the enemy in that crazy high difficulty.
 
Last edited:

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
Patron
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
6,261
Strap Yourselves In
Yep. Good necromancy is kinda nonsensical since you are dealing with objectively evil energy.
Isn't the Heal spell of the necromantic school? Same with Resurrection and Restoration...

Sure, most necromantic wizards are neutral or evil alignments, but it's technically possible to do a good-aligned one though iirc.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
9,904
Location
Frostfell
Yep. Good necromancy is kinda nonsensical since you are dealing with objectively evil energy.
Isn't the Heal spell of the necromantic school? Same with Resurrection and Restoration...

Sure, most necromantic wizards are neutral or evil alignments, but it's technically possible to do a good-aligned one though iirc. Just less likely.

This are labeled necromancy cuz they are manipulating life and death. However, they are "white necromancy", using energy from positive plane. OHK spells and animating the dead uses the energy opposite to this plane. And the spells which you mentioned are cleric spells.
 

Non-Edgy Gamer

Grand Dragon
Patron
Joined
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Messages
6,261
Strap Yourselves In
This are labeled necromancy cuz they are manipulating life and death. However, they are "white necromancy", using energy from positive plane. OHK spells and animating the dead uses the energy opposite to this plane. And the spells which you mentioned are cleric spells.
DMGR7 (2e) clearly states that you can have good-aligned necromancers:

The most obvious hindrance for a PC necromancer is alignment. While some practitioners of the Art have a scrupulous code of ethics, the number of benevolent necromancers is deplorably rare. At the very least, the majority of necromancers should be considered rigidly neutral. The large remainder of necromantic practitioners are profoundly evil.
Rare, but not impossible.
And the spells which you mentioned are cleric spells.
They're still spells though. I was trying to make the point that white necromancy exists without quoting things. Whatever.

A third and final category of necromancy embraces magic of a benign or beneficial nature. White necromancy includes spells which restore and fortify the living body or life force (such as delay death (WH), empathic wound transfer, bone growth, Spendelard's chaser (FOR), Nulathoe's ninemen (FOR), and reincarnation) or derive their power from the caster's own life force (such as spirit armor (TOM) or homunculus shield (TOM)) or can be used only to disable undead (such as hold undead and bind undead). Note, however, that spells that control undead are not considered white necromancy!

Although white magic can be used to heal wounds and bone fractures, it is no substitute for clerical healing. White necromancy derives its healing power from a volunteer's source of life energy (often the caster's), as in empathic wound transfer. Clerical magic, in contrast, bestows healing through a combination of faith and divine authority. Short of a wish (or for a brief duration, a limited wish), wizard spells cannot "create" new hit points-the Art usually shuttles life force from a donor to recipient. In contrast with black and gray necromancy, white magic has absolutely no chance of attracting the attention of an evil god. No powers check is ever required for casting a spell of white necromancy (except, perhaps, in Ravenloft). Wizards of good alignment will thus employ white necromancy over those spells with questionable moral implications. Of course, nothing prevents evil mages from employing these spells as well, provided that doing so suits their own dark purposes. During an emergency, when a wizard needs to heal allies (or him- or herself) and no cleric is available, even the most dark-hearted necromancer will resort to white magic.

Simple logic should tell you that if nothing prevents an evil-aligned necromancer from casting healing spells (white necromancy), then nothing prevents a good-aligned necromancer from casting black necromantic spells, given the right circumstances or temptations. There would be consequences though. Per the manual, the player could attract the attention of "dark gods" etc., but I kind of doubt this matters much to a bhaalspawn.

You also forget Grey necromantic spells, of which animate dead is technically classified.

The DM should refer to Appendix Two for a complete listing of spells in the necromantic school. Except for the few listed in Table 10, the majority of necromantic spells fall into a gray category of moral uncertainty. These spells are not intrinsically evil per se, but they certainly can be put to inherently wicked uses. Take animate dead, for instance. Raising up a zombie to carry one's luggage is not considered an evil act, but animating the dead for the purpose of attacking a merchant caravan is another matter entirely. While appropriate for neutral wizards, animation of the dead should be distasteful and perhaps even forbidden to chaotic good and lawful good wizards. Spells of gray necromancy rarely advance the cause of good. While casting spells of black necromancy always requires the wizard to make a powers check, neutral or gray necromancy only requires a powers check when it employed for an evil purpose. Gray necromancy thus carries an element of risk and uncertainty: depending upon the caster's intent, the spell may or may not have a chance of attracting the attention of an evil god. It is left for the DM to decide which spells belong to the category of neutral necromancy. It is suggested that all divination/ disguise magics (see Appendix One) and certain special use spells (such as animate dead animals, undead mount (FOR), bone dance, skull watch (FOR), and so on) fall into this largest grouping of necromancy. Of course, the DM may decide that certain spells (such as animate dead and magic jar) have too much potential for evil. The DM should feel free to augment Table 10 as necessary for the campaign.

The book even goes on at length, creating a full character and backstory for a chaotic-good-aligned necromancer:

T6v21ap.jpeg

All this said, I basically agree with you that it's nonsensical to play a BG2 necromancer as a good-aligned character, in it's incredibly unlikely that you're going to restrict yourself to mostly white or grey necromancy, or that most good-aligned mages would even become necromancers. It'd be like a germaphobe taking a job as a janitor. However, it's still technically possible.
 

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