Editorial BioWare says: Don't innovate, just give me more Elves PLZ!

[Castanova]

"Here [video gaming] has buried a treasure—but even fairer hopes"....

 

[DarkSign]

I read this article too; and it made me weep openly.

More than just kissing WoW's ass...
More than just deterring innovative development...
It screams let's just give people what they want at the expense of creativity.

These guys wouldnt know what players want if it bit them in the ass... ESPECIALLY when it comes to MMOs. Are you kidding me?

When will people realize that huge numbers (subscriptions and revenues) dont =quality? A billion chinamen eat rice, but it's not what you'd call haute cuisine!

We're not saying its easy, but ffs...take some chances...advance playability to be not just more realistic...and herein lies the hard part...realistically fun and challenging!

What MMO players want is interaction. Interaction with each other...interaction with NPCs...interaction with the world in new and meaningful ways.

Look at single-player mystery games...they often have detailed, custom interfaces for things like bombs or puzzles....these type things could make an MMO environment MUCH more interactive!

What about realistic schedules for NPCs where they jump up out of a deep sleep when you knock over a table in the middle of the night?

I shudder to even discuss challenge because I highly doubt that they'd see a game that brought in less people but kept them longer as worth the cash. Obviously they missed the day in business school where the teacher explained how its easier to keep an existing customer (by almost an order of 10 in fact) than attract new ones.

The people with the money in MMO development have their a priori principles for determining how to squeeze out the last dollar. I've even heard it voiced here - games are a business not an art form. And the world is voting these companies into making bad games. Atrocious games. Bukkakke over steaming shit games.

Here is a rant from the Austin Conference where MMOers target themselves. Not a bad start but of course they didnt go far enough.

First, he responded to Scott Jennings and his condemnation of the World of WarCraft peer-to-peer patch model. Firor believes that is a novel solution to a novel problem and that is where innovation comes from in this industry. MMORPGs are a new frontier and no one expects some of the problems people run up against: such as the need to give 7-million people one patch.

Bullshit. Banks do this in higher magnitude every day. You take an action and repeat it a billion times (check processing) - admittedly the businesses arent the same but the idea of doing on process and doing it right over an increasingly larger customer base isnt fucking rocket science.

There's nothing we can do but pull for the indie MMO makers. Like the truth - they are out there.

 

[KevinV12000]

Actually, I think the Alpha Centauri comment really touched on yet another indicator of what type of gamer you are. When you first played AC did you think:

A) Aaarg, this game is just like Civ, except I have to learn all these new units and techs in some made-up planetary fight with stupid alien vegetation.

or

B) Wow, this game is just like Civ, but changed enough to make it a totally differnet challenge. I'm really looking forward to learning and mastering the detail here.

A = Vast majority of gamers

B = Codex losers like me.

 

[Volourn]

"These guys wouldnt know what players want if it bit them in the ass..."

BIO's success disproves your theory.


P.S. As for the AC vs. Civilization debate; I don't care about either. HAHAHAHAHA!

 

[DarkSign]

"These guys wouldnt know what players want if it bit them in the ass..."

BIO's success disproves your theory.


P.S. As for the AC vs. Civilization debate; I don't care about either. HAHAHAHAHA!

Depends on how you define players. You obviously count the average console gamer - I obviously dont. Why would I possibly take their opinion as worthy of informing my own?

There are games that come along that show people things they didnt know they needed. It's the duty of the enlightened to bring slaves out of the cave.

 

[Volourn]

Hey, youa re the one who tried speaking on behalf of all players. Stick to speaking for yourself or, at maximum, the Codex.

Then again, you are one of the few here who actually likes NWN so perhaps its best for you NOT to speak on behalf of the Codex.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!

 

[DarkSign]

Hey, youa re the one who tried speaking on behalf of all players. Stick to speaking for yourself or, at maximum, the Codex.

Then again, you are one of the few here who actually likes NWN so perhaps its best for you NOT to speak on behalf of the Codex.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!

R00fles!

 

[Elwro]

After Alpha Centauri I couldn't play another Civilization game again.

I had the same experience, but Civ IV cured me. Try it!

 

[kris]

A) Aaarg, this game is just like Civ, except I have to learn all these new units and techs in some made-up planetary fight with stupid alien vegetation.

or

B) Wow, this game is just like Civ, but changed enough to make it a totally differnet challenge. I'm really looking forward to learning and mastering the detail here.

A = Vast majority of gamers

B = Codex losers like me.

There is nothing at all supporting this and this is the first time I heard about this so called frustration playing AC. It was just to welldesigned (although unbalanced).

 

[Volourn]

"It was just to welldesigned (although unbalanced)."

HAHAHAHAHAH!


It was 'well designed'.... it was unbalanced.

Stop the bullshit, please.

 

[DarkSign]

Yeah that is a contradiction. You might say "It has some interesting features, but it's unbalanced" which wouldnt contradict itself.

 

[Voss]

Depends on how you define players. You obviously count the average console gamer - I obviously dont. Why would I possibly take their opinion as worthy of informing my own?

There are games that come along that show people things they didnt know they needed. It's the duty of the enlightened to bring slaves out of the cave.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that no one (of any importance) actually cares about your opinion. Your 1 sale (or lack of it) is insignificant when compared to the thousands that buy from Bio or Blizzard.

This little contextless snippet you folks are whining about was from an industry talk. Strangely, companies want to make money, so the topic was addressing innovation from a $$ perspective.


As for your last paragraph... I hope you were just trying to be funny. No one *needs* specific things from their entertainment. Preferences are just that... personal desires. They aren't big picture things, let alone some tripe about slaves in caves.

 

[kingcomrade]

Wow. I don't even know what to say. It's like that photo where the Muslim protester is holding the sign that says "freedom go to hell." What do you even say to someone who is so completely on the other side of the spectrum?

True innovation is bad, but doing the same thing over and over only more shiny and calling it innoation is good.

 

[Dmitron]

Give the public something they are familiar with, otherwise they might not by it.

 

[Twinfalls]

This little contextless snippet you folks are whining about was from an industry talk. Strangely, companies want to make money, so the topic was addressing innovation from a $$ perspective.

Just love that attempted critique-killer "stfu tehy are a company and that what companyes do MAKE MONEY" in all its many indistinct flavours.

Bugger me senseless with a Wii-stick, but I'd expect an industry talk about innovation to be about actual innovation. Not aping design aspects that happen to succeed for one mega-dollar title.

Where I read an industry speech about innovation which doesn't make any effort whatsoever to address the foundational cornerstone of gaming, creativity, I'll be more interested in those ensuing discussions that feature 'whining'.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Was Diablo innovative when it came out? I dunno, something about casting a thousand fireballs before resupplying your mana seemed appealing to me because I hadn't played a game like that before. I mean, for once, my wizard wasn't some completely useless fuck who could only cast a single magic missile before retiring for the evening.

Wolfenstein 3d was pretty innovative. I mean, that right there was a whole new genre created on the spot. It's just a pity about all the clones that were never successful (Does anyone else remember Blake Stone?). A hundred and one games were made along the "Gamers like Wolfenstein. Let's give them more Wolfenstein!" mind-track. Doom kicked all their arses with it's shinier graphics and original "Demons from Hell" concept. Of course, then we had to deal with all the other "Demons from Hell" games that came out. Of course back then games did work out of the box and all you needed was a 486 to run it, not a new graphics card or anything else. They were also tough as nuts to get through. No Soul Cube crap here folks. Pure unadulterated gaming.

Then there was Myst (Speaking of which, two new Myst books are coming out. W00T). I mean, no combat! At all! AND IT WAS REAL 3D FIRST-PERSON! Everything from the game-play to the entire concept was new. I mean, a world where people can create worlds by writing a book about them? The art of linking? There are no mother-fucking elves in this game folks. It was also one of the hardest puzzle games I've ever played. See some weird contraption with no basis in reality? Yeah, you do? Well, have fun figuring that out. And it sold 6 million copies apparently. 6 million mother-fucking snakes and their mother-fucking copies. That's a lot.

The Sims beat it. The Sims? No combat. No end-game boss. In fact, the game doesn't end. People didn't even die! Though you could have kids and wall them in if you wanted to and watch them starve to death. You couldn't beat them up though. There are no classes in that one either. You can adjust the level of "clean" your guy has and watch while he doesn't wash his hands after he goes to the bathroom as a result. Still no elves in it.

Thing is, Damion Schubert wouldn't know innovation if it jumped out from behind a bush in front of him, pushed him over, sat on his face, dumped a turd down his throat, made him swallow it and performed oral sex on him. He'd be wondering why he's breath smells like shit, why he's got a headache and why he's feeling so pleased with himself.

 

[kingcomrade]

Wait, I've got it. The Twilight Elves. They're a mysterious sext of purple boobs and scantily clad bodies with a deep, dark, <s>wet</s> secret past which is their eternal shame and so they're all angst and makes them seek salvation in the arms of other women. And scantily clad boobs, if I hadn't mentioned them yet.

 

[Voss]

Where I read an industry speech about innovation which doesn't make any effort whatsoever to address the foundational cornerstone of gaming, creativity, I'll be more interested in those ensuing discussions that feature 'whining'.

Creativity in computer games? At all, let alone a foundation of the industry?

Shit, you need to share that stuff you're smoking, because you're pulling crap out of nowhere.

 

[ixg]

Re: BioWare says: Don't innovate, just give me more Elves PL

He pointed to two Sid Meier games, Alpha Centauri and Civilization IV, as being a pair of similar games with wildly different settings. He asked the audience how many people played the sci-fi Alpha Centauri for 15 minutes and then longed to be playing a historical Civilization game instead.

This hurts my brain...WTF is this guy thinking?

 

[Twinfalls]

Creativity in computer games? At all, let alone a foundation of the industry?

Shit, you need to share that stuff you're smoking, because you're pulling crap out of nowhere.

Perhaps I am. Let me just sit up, flail my arms through the smoky haze surrounding me, and peer back. So creativity wasn't a cornerstone of titles whose success were critical in the expansion of gaming into a full-blown industry? Creativity wasn't indeed the single most important factor driving developers in actually making games to begin with?

Creativity wasn't a hallmark of Space Invaders? Tetris?
Zelda, Mario, Doom, Half Life?

Myst? The Sims?

Oh, and this guy happens to be talking about RPGs specifically. What was the series for which RPGs first brought in real money? Oh yes, Ultima. So creativity wasn't anywhere to be seen in the Ultimas? In Colossal Cave? The first MUDS? Darklands? The Gold Box games, Daggerfall, Fallout?

You sure about that, Voss? Need a smoke?

 

[Sovy Kurosei]

I think Voss was being sarcastic.

 

[Twinfalls]

Which would make sense, except it followed on from this comment:

This little contextless snippet you folks are whining about was from an industry talk. Strangely, companies want to make money, so the topic was addressing innovation from a $$ perspective.

Er, and at any rate.... let my little speech be a REMINDER to you BITCHES what GAMING is ALL ABOUT!
NEVAR FORGET


or something.

 

[Jim Kata]

This little contextless snippet you folks are whining about was from an industry talk. Strangely, companies want to make money, so the topic was addressing innovation from a $$ perspective.

Just love that attempted critique-killer "stfu tehy are a company and that what companyes do MAKE MONEY" in all its many indistinct flavours.

Bugger me senseless with a Wii-stick, but I'd expect an industry talk about innovation to be about actual innovation. Not aping design aspects that happen to succeed for one mega-dollar title.

Where I read an industry speech about innovation which doesn't make any effort whatsoever to address the foundational cornerstone of gaming, creativity, I'll be more interested in those ensuing discussions that feature 'whining'.

Now I know why oblivs is considered so innovative - it screw people out of money in ways never before thought possible!

 

[OccupatedVoid]

Now I know why oblivs is considered so innovative - it screw people out of money in ways never before thought possible!

Before the people are screwed they get a journal pop up.

 

[Voss]

I think Voss was being sarcastic.

I was? Neat.

So creativity wasn't a cornerstone of titles whose success were critical in the expansion of gaming into a full-blown industry? Creativity wasn't indeed the single most important factor driving developers in actually making games to begin with?

There was a creative moment (sorta), when some guy said, 'lets do this on computers'. And then the fat, smelly nerd, whipped something up in his den under his parents house. Eventually word got around, and someone with better hygiene said 'We can sell this shit'.

Creativity wasn't a hallmark of Space Invaders? Tetris?
Zelda, Mario, Doom, Half Life?

Myst? The Sims?

What are we talking about in terms of creativity? Doing something for the first time on a computer- does that even count as creative? Graphical improvements? Gameplay INNOVATIONS?

Because the concepts of this stuff. Ooo, so creative.
Alien invasions, falling bricks (probably the most creative thing on the list, sadly). An elf does quests! King kong vs italian stereotypes!, wolfenstein with demons! (And no, killing nazis- not creative), and doom with extradimensional aliens! (Its got the same fucking plot, bitch!)

(Yet Another) Adventure game! Real life, without people or actual interaction!

Oh, and this guy happens to be talking about RPGs specifically. What was the series for which RPGs first brought in real money? Oh yes, Ultima. So creativity wasn't anywhere to be seen in the Ultimas? In Colossal Cave? The first MUDS? Darklands? The Gold Box games, Daggerfall, Fallout?

Put morals in computer games? Creative I suppose. And then drop 'em because they don't bring in the cash.
Missed the cave, I guess.
MUDS- turning a chat client into a game could be considered creative, I suppose. But like most
Darklands- fun game, but as with most rpgs, pen and paper on a computer. With Satan!
Gold box- D&D on computer. Wow. Creative. Really bad example.
Daggerfall. Not D&D (by which I mean, generic fantasy) on computer. Wow. Creative.
Fallout. Not Gurps on computer. With post-apoc. Wow. Wasteland. Wow, Mad Max (etc) on computer.


So, yeah, 'doing an established genre, but on a computer' != creative. While theres a few bits of creativity here and there, hardly a cornerstone of the industry. And the gradual improvement of graphics and what not is a matter of tinkering, not creativity.