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Company News BioWare Working on Small Secret Project with Failbetter Games
- Thread starter Crooked Bee
- Start date
They pretend like they aren't cunts but most of them are fags
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2013
- Messages
- 6,178
You can't read into that sort of thing too much when Bioware inherted the market that once belonged to 3-5 big players. For the better part of a decade, Bioware was cRPGs.
Now, they may be going to the way of Eidos. A former titan reduced to a middle weight with glory always just out of reach. The day may come when there is no more compulsion to buy a Bioware game than Hitman: Absolution.
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By gum, he's still got it!!
crawlkill
Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 674
A couple months ago some crazy person threatened to sue Failbetter over some broken content or other in their main game, Fallen London. In response, they shut down an entire content line that had a tendency to take stats away from players. I'd followed all this with vague interest; I'd used to be obsessed with the game, like, three, four years ago, but had since way cooled on it and was in the middle of one of my always-abortive attempts to get back into it. A few weeks later, Failbetter sent me an unsolicited email accusing me of barratry (that means "making legal threats to harrass") after I made a sarcastic comment on a closed fan forum they don't run on which you can't even see posts without registering and logging in about how apparently what I should've done when they'd snubbed a support request of mine years ago was to threaten to sue. They subsequently banned me after an increasingly surreal back and forth of emails in which my thesis was "what the fuck are you talking about, of course I wasn't threatening to sue you, I was mocking you on a locked forum for losing your shit over a crazy person threatening to sue you when you do nothing over legitimate support requests and you're lunatics for thinking otherwise."
He also insisted, without my requesting he do so once, on refunding all of the $230US or so I'd ever spent on the game. I protested that I didn't want the money back, that no matter how crazy they were I still respected their product. He would not listen. He "didn't want me to have anything on them." I think this story is enough to have on them, personally.
Here's the full email thread, for the curious, starting with my comment on that locked, private forum that was apparently so baiting:
So yeah. Fallen London/Echo Bazaar had a great start and I guess I still wish those guys well just for the good bits, but the guy who runs it, Alexis, doesn't deal with the stress of his position well, and I'd encourage caution in working with them.
And just in case Alexis reads this: No, this isn't a statement of intent to sue you, either! Nor is this. Wait, is this? No, it wasn't either.
an irony that did not occur to me until now: is accusing someone who has in no way made or implied legal threats of barratry barratry? don't worry, FBG, I won't sue you you over that one, either, I'll just relentlessly expose your paranoia toward your customers whenever the opportunity presents itself.
can you imagine if Bioware made an attempt to police sarcasm about their support apparatus by their highest-paying customers on private forums. well-chosen business partner, EA.
He also insisted, without my requesting he do so once, on refunding all of the $230US or so I'd ever spent on the game. I protested that I didn't want the money back, that no matter how crazy they were I still respected their product. He would not listen. He "didn't want me to have anything on them." I think this story is enough to have on them, personally.
Here's the full email thread, for the curious, starting with my comment on that locked, private forum that was apparently so baiting:
this was all via email. addresses change to protect the whoever. my post on this forum, after learning about the Eaten fiasco:
wow. I guess the time I lost a bunch of Fate to a misclick and FBG refused to reset or refund me my error was not threatening a lawsuit? this shit gives me the rages backwards and forwards. on the other hand, I got a Mr Eaten warning when I logged in today, so I guess Alexis has gotten over his babbies drama?
are we really a minority? I can't even conceive of not seeking the Name.
From: Alexis, in an unsolicited email to crawlkill:
Mr #####
Another player has forwarded me a post from a closed forum in which you declare that (i) we owe you a refund and (ii) you're considering legal action to reclaim it.
I should advise you that we clearly state in our terms of service that Nex is, like most virtual currency, a grant of permission in the use of the product and not subject to refund. Further, we treat frivolous legal threats in the same way we treat other harassment (generally, with account suspension). However, as a matter of courtesy, we sometimes provide discretionary refunds or compensation where a user has paid for content or service and then suffered from a fault at our end.
Consequently, if you believe you have a claim against us, please let me know the details so that we can resolve this. If not, be aware that we will treat legal threats as barratry and respond accordingly.
regards
--
Alexis Kennedy
Director
Failbetter Games
From: crawlkill:
to Alexis
Uh, what? Something like two or three years ago I accidentally lost discarded some content I'd paid Fate for and had my request for having it restored declined (it was a Singular Plant that I'd accidentally clicked away after spending a lot of Fate on its development). It was pretty irritating at the time. I wryly commented Inquisitive Friends the other day in light of the Eaten thing that apparently what I should've done to get your attention was to threaten to sue. That was in no way a statement of "considering legal action," it was a criticism of how you handled my complaint at that time and this other person's complaint at this time.
I hope this is just some kind of weird form email on your part, because it's pretty ridiculous.
From: Alexis Kennedy
to me
I think it's ridiculous, yes. But I've read the post in question and we don't have the luxury of treating this kind of issue lightly.
I'm still not clear from your mail whether out not you believe you have a claim against us. Could you clarify? and then I won't need to waste any more of either of our time.
From: Crawlkill: No, not at all [do I have a claim against you]. I accidentally clicked away something I'd spent a few dollars of Fate on a few years ago, sent you guys a support email asking to have that content restored and didn't get it restored. I'm (genuinely, not sarcastically) sorry if my posting a sarcastic comment on a private forum about not liking the way my years-old Fate-related support request had been handled has caused you guys any lack of sleep. I wouldn't WANT to punish you for that behavior. I understand that your support machine can and can't do certain things. I don't and didn't feel "cheated," I just felt (and no longer have the energy or memory to feel) a little hard done by, as a then-enthusiastic Fatebuyer who'd unintentionally lost some Fate-supported progress who couldn't get it restored. It would never and has never crossed my mind to litigate over that shit...like...that's...incomprehensible to me. I was personally offended. I didn't feel that laws had been violated.
Have you guys actually gotten serious threats of litigation or something, to be this afraid? This is just baffling to me. In a long history of negative experiences with FBG customer support, this is the worst [which should not imply any attempt to litigate]. I fucking posted a fucking sarcastic fucking post about how fucking badly a fucking badly-handled fucking support request I fucking sent you guys several fucking years ago on a fucking private fucking forum and you fucking send me a fucking email fucking asking me if I was fucking planning to fucking sue you and fucking demanded such fucking precision that just fucking saying "no what are you fucking talking about" wasn't fucking enough. I'm. horrified. this is horrifying to me.
but no, I'm not going to fucking sue you over it. just so we're clear.
From: Alexis:
Backstory here is that another user mailed me and told me I should take a look at this; and a cursory Google search plus a look at our customer logs reveals you have a long history of talking smack about us and suggesting we owe you money. I take litigation threats seriously, and I take challenges to my or my company's integrity if anything more seriously.
> a long history of negative experiences with FBG customer support, this is the worst... fucking...fucking...fucking...
In the long history of abusive messages you've sent me or my team, this is, I think, also the worst. I don't know why you think you have the right to talk to other human beings like this, simply because they work in a support role. The good thing about being an indie creator is that I don't have to put up with it.
You are on the record as being vociferously dissatisfied with our service; and as it happens we have a zero-tolerance policy on abuse. I see you have spent, in the past, a non-trivial sum on Fate and Nex, and although we would be entirely within our rights just to ban you, I've taken the decision to refund your account in full (144.65 GBP according to my records and the notional exchange rate) to your xxxxxx@gmail.com PayPal account. Please don't create any further accounts on any of our sites.
wow. I guess the time I lost a bunch of Fate to a misclick and FBG refused to reset or refund me my error was not threatening a lawsuit? this shit gives me the rages backwards and forwards. on the other hand, I got a Mr Eaten warning when I logged in today, so I guess Alexis has gotten over his babbies drama?
are we really a minority? I can't even conceive of not seeking the Name.
From: Alexis, in an unsolicited email to crawlkill:
Mr #####
Another player has forwarded me a post from a closed forum in which you declare that (i) we owe you a refund and (ii) you're considering legal action to reclaim it.
I should advise you that we clearly state in our terms of service that Nex is, like most virtual currency, a grant of permission in the use of the product and not subject to refund. Further, we treat frivolous legal threats in the same way we treat other harassment (generally, with account suspension). However, as a matter of courtesy, we sometimes provide discretionary refunds or compensation where a user has paid for content or service and then suffered from a fault at our end.
Consequently, if you believe you have a claim against us, please let me know the details so that we can resolve this. If not, be aware that we will treat legal threats as barratry and respond accordingly.
regards
--
Alexis Kennedy
Director
Failbetter Games
From: crawlkill:
to Alexis
Uh, what? Something like two or three years ago I accidentally lost discarded some content I'd paid Fate for and had my request for having it restored declined (it was a Singular Plant that I'd accidentally clicked away after spending a lot of Fate on its development). It was pretty irritating at the time. I wryly commented Inquisitive Friends the other day in light of the Eaten thing that apparently what I should've done to get your attention was to threaten to sue. That was in no way a statement of "considering legal action," it was a criticism of how you handled my complaint at that time and this other person's complaint at this time.
I hope this is just some kind of weird form email on your part, because it's pretty ridiculous.
From: Alexis Kennedy
to me
I think it's ridiculous, yes. But I've read the post in question and we don't have the luxury of treating this kind of issue lightly.
I'm still not clear from your mail whether out not you believe you have a claim against us. Could you clarify? and then I won't need to waste any more of either of our time.
From: Crawlkill: No, not at all [do I have a claim against you]. I accidentally clicked away something I'd spent a few dollars of Fate on a few years ago, sent you guys a support email asking to have that content restored and didn't get it restored. I'm (genuinely, not sarcastically) sorry if my posting a sarcastic comment on a private forum about not liking the way my years-old Fate-related support request had been handled has caused you guys any lack of sleep. I wouldn't WANT to punish you for that behavior. I understand that your support machine can and can't do certain things. I don't and didn't feel "cheated," I just felt (and no longer have the energy or memory to feel) a little hard done by, as a then-enthusiastic Fatebuyer who'd unintentionally lost some Fate-supported progress who couldn't get it restored. It would never and has never crossed my mind to litigate over that shit...like...that's...incomprehensible to me. I was personally offended. I didn't feel that laws had been violated.
Have you guys actually gotten serious threats of litigation or something, to be this afraid? This is just baffling to me. In a long history of negative experiences with FBG customer support, this is the worst [which should not imply any attempt to litigate]. I fucking posted a fucking sarcastic fucking post about how fucking badly a fucking badly-handled fucking support request I fucking sent you guys several fucking years ago on a fucking private fucking forum and you fucking send me a fucking email fucking asking me if I was fucking planning to fucking sue you and fucking demanded such fucking precision that just fucking saying "no what are you fucking talking about" wasn't fucking enough. I'm. horrified. this is horrifying to me.
but no, I'm not going to fucking sue you over it. just so we're clear.
From: Alexis:
Backstory here is that another user mailed me and told me I should take a look at this; and a cursory Google search plus a look at our customer logs reveals you have a long history of talking smack about us and suggesting we owe you money. I take litigation threats seriously, and I take challenges to my or my company's integrity if anything more seriously.
> a long history of negative experiences with FBG customer support, this is the worst... fucking...fucking...fucking...
In the long history of abusive messages you've sent me or my team, this is, I think, also the worst. I don't know why you think you have the right to talk to other human beings like this, simply because they work in a support role. The good thing about being an indie creator is that I don't have to put up with it.
You are on the record as being vociferously dissatisfied with our service; and as it happens we have a zero-tolerance policy on abuse. I see you have spent, in the past, a non-trivial sum on Fate and Nex, and although we would be entirely within our rights just to ban you, I've taken the decision to refund your account in full (144.65 GBP according to my records and the notional exchange rate) to your xxxxxx@gmail.com PayPal account. Please don't create any further accounts on any of our sites.
So yeah. Fallen London/Echo Bazaar had a great start and I guess I still wish those guys well just for the good bits, but the guy who runs it, Alexis, doesn't deal with the stress of his position well, and I'd encourage caution in working with them.
And just in case Alexis reads this: No, this isn't a statement of intent to sue you, either! Nor is this. Wait, is this? No, it wasn't either.
an irony that did not occur to me until now: is accusing someone who has in no way made or implied legal threats of barratry barratry? don't worry, FBG, I won't sue you you over that one, either, I'll just relentlessly expose your paranoia toward your customers whenever the opportunity presents itself.
can you imagine if Bioware made an attempt to police sarcasm about their support apparatus by their highest-paying customers on private forums. well-chosen business partner, EA.
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Copper
Savant
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 469
What a lot of drama over a few fucks and other colourful talk. While you don't exactly come across as very neutral/professional in your response, you're a customer being threatened by the Man for making a joke. If they didn't depend on the internet for work, I'd say next stop Alan Moore town.
Well, they might be loopers, but at least they have some interesting ideas on non-linear storytelling / worldbuilding as the primary method of storytelling, and even gave a lecture to the toiling Edmonton mole people in the past. Of course, Bioware then produced DAII.
Well, they might be loopers, but at least they have some interesting ideas on non-linear storytelling / worldbuilding as the primary method of storytelling, and even gave a lecture to the toiling Edmonton mole people in the past. Of course, Bioware then produced DAII.
crawlkill
Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!
- Joined
- May 9, 2012
- Messages
- 674
I did regret the fucks...sorta. I think I got the original email at around 1 AM my time on a Sunday night/Monday morning while not 100% sober and the exchange followed in that same window. Still, I was a customer being randomly threatened. Not sure if I was supposed to respond in a totally cool, calm way. I felt harassed and threatened when I'd obviously done fucknothing wrong and responded like a person instead of a roboid.
Uhm, i remember playing echo bazaar for an afternoon, and then reading years later about female characters accidentally being branded as lesbians or something like that.
In that context the name of the company does make sense.
EBZ actually never categorizes or even mentions sexual orientation. All screwings are equal opportunity. It's a little hokey, but some kinds of games aren't the right place to explore repression and heinous prejudice. They funnel that into the treatment of the squidlike Rubbery Men.
see, even when I'm bitching about them I talk positively about them. truly I am no citizen of the Codex, coherent in my vitriol.
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set
Cipher
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2013
- Messages
- 940
Let's not start this argument now--
In theory, DA2's story ideas weren't bad, but in almost every way, they were executed abominably.
There's no rigid structure for making a "good game" - you can take ten mechanics and spin them into a fun game; even coverbased jelly screen popamoles can be fun if they're well designed and the said designers have the right intent. It's not about mechanics or ideas, it's about implementation. DA2 was a rushed mess where the designers clearly did not have the time or the notion to produce a good game.
toro
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 14,106
So, you think you are funny?
Don't really care about the game, but yeah, the studio name is (I presume) based on a line from a semi-satirical Samuel Beckett novella:
Copper
Savant
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
- Messages
- 469
Presumably. Obsidian really missed out a name that would have suited them perfectly there.
fizzelopeguss
Arcane
Mortmal
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2009
- Messages
- 9,185
Once when playign a mmo(kotor online) with some guys we argued about rpgs, thats what we do best: arguing. He said to me , of course mass effect 3 is a rpg you can change every clothes on your character ... I finally understood what a great rpg means for hardcore bioware fans , no doubt failbetter will provide a great rpg as well.
- Joined
- May 16, 2008
- Messages
- 18,150
that never happens, it's just you convincing yourself it does.
Septaryeth
Augur
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2013
- Messages
- 298
I guess this is their dream RPG then?
On a more serious note, apparently Square Enix did use this as a selling point to promote their product,
so congratulate them for knowing the market well.
Burning Bridges
Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Trying to threaten a quarrelsome person with a lawsuit, what kind of bullshit is that? I guess someone has problems comprehending free speech.
kris
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 3,517
Makes one wonder, which is failing better: failing more, or failing less?
DraQ
Arcane
I think BW could use some pointers regarding failing better.
They've been failing rather awfully as of late.
They've been failing rather awfully as of late.
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