Black Mesa - legendary vaporware Half-Life remake finally out

[Dayyālu]

Go cut your veins and make world better place, you bunch of emo whiners.

Black Mesa isn't bad per se. It simply shows a lot of problems typical of modder development, and most of the "serious" critics I've seen here (I don't count LOL SUCKZ BALLZ as a critique) point out that as a shooter contextualized in the Half Life 2 era (so, 00ies style PC shooters) Black Mesa shows some serious problems in design, mostly combat and encounter design. I can't deny that it's visually impressive and its reimagining of Xen even more so (I am one of the few that never found Xen that bad, merely an obvious hack job done with limited time, quite typical of the genre though), but it isn't that fun to play.

The question to me is, would you play Black Mesa or replay the original Half Life, plus expansions? For me, there's no choice: if we evaluate it as a shooter, HL and Opposing Force give you a far more cohesive and well-designed experience. Bar maybe boss fights. BM for me is puzzling: HL did not need a remake, and it's here because for some weird reason some fans truly wanted it and managed to push through everything. It's a magnificent effort, but if I can, a bit of a wasted effort.

 

[Lemming42]

The one non-gameplay related thing I really wish they'd do is put all the VOX announcements back in, including the ones that were cut from Half-Life.

GORDON. FREEMAN. REPORT. TO. MILITARY. PERSONNEL. FOR. IMMEDIATE. SECURITY. CHECK.

MILITARY. PERSONNEL. AUTHORISED. TO. PROSECUTE. GORDON. FREEMAN. WITH. EXTREME. FORCE.

GORDON. ALL. SCIENCE. PERSONNEL. WILL. BE. TERMINATED. UNTIL. YOU. SURRENDER.

ALERT. REMAINING. CONTAINMENT. FORCE. FREEMAN. MAY. HAVE. EXPERIMENTAL. WEAPON.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

The question to me is, would you play Black Mesa or replay the original Half Life, plus expansions? For me, there's no choice: if we evaluate it as a shooter, HL and Opposing Force give you a far more cohesive and well-designed experience. Bar maybe boss fights. BM for me is puzzling: HL did not need a remake, and it's here because for some weird reason some fans truly wanted it and managed to push through everything. It's a magnificent effort, but if I can, a bit of a wasted effort.

Imho If effort managed to satisfy around more than 19000 (if reviews on steam can be indicator of something ofc) it isn't completely wasteful effort. It even less wasteful effort if we consider amount of experience received by devs in gaming development and they will kill themselves from depression and alcoholism perhaps they will put this experience in good use (fabulously optimistic, but still).
And talking about problems with combat in game - majority of problems can be safely applied to original HL and HL 2.Perhaps I can be wrong, but majority of shooters in general has same problems.
I rarely replay linear games, because my brain tends to memorize a lot of useless crap, like places where enemies spawn and this makes walkthrough a lot less interesting. Maybe several years later.
Btw, I never played Decay, mostly because it was console exclusive, it's really worth playing?

 

[Dayyālu]

Btw, I never played Decay, mostly because it was console exclusive, it's really worth playing?

Replayed it last year during a HL binge. It's more for people that want to play EVERYTHING, completionist-like, it's kinda clunky in its PC incarnation and not on the level of the original game.

It's a thing.

 

[Jenkem]

People are hyperbolic as shit acting like this game is similar to the Star Wars special editions that are meant to replace the original Half-Life and its expansions when it's simply a fan remake that plays differently and can sit alongside the series. It's not published by Valve, Gabe Newell didn't remove HL1, Blue Shift and Opposing Force from Steam and make a blogpost saying "BLACK MESA IS CANON NOW!"

 

[DalekFlay]

The question to me is, would you play Black Mesa or replay the original Half Life, plus expansions? For me, there's no choice: if we evaluate it as a shooter, HL and Opposing Force give you a far more cohesive and well-designed experience. Bar maybe boss fights. BM for me is puzzling: HL did not need a remake, and it's here because for some weird reason some fans truly wanted it and managed to push through everything. It's a magnificent effort, but if I can, a bit of a wasted effort.

Most people are much bigger graphics whore than they want to admit, or whores for modern "quality of life" improvements. It's why every time a new Elder Scrolls or Fallout game comes out a bunch of people start jacking off to the idea of their favorite older game being remade in that engine. I'd guess many of these people don't even care if the gameplay takes multiple steps back due to being designed by amateurs, as long as the "immersive experience" is better.

 

[Dayyālu]

Thing is, to truly improve the gameplay of Black Mesa (and thus, of Half Life 2) you should take some extreme measures. I was watching the review of some 'tard



(yes, sue me, the guy is a fucktard but Youtube got it recommended)

and he started complaining how he would have liked more useful grenade throws, maybe linking it to a single button press, and of course more engaging hand to hand combat. In short, this guy wants to have F.E.A.R. combat. Amusingly enough, I do amit that getting the F.E.A.R. combat engine (weapon feedback, HtH combat, grenade variety) with Half Life's detail and enemy variety (if FEAR has problems, it's the retarded setting and limited enemies) would make for some sort of ultimate second generation shooter experience. But that would have been a tad too far for the modders, I guess, and improving graphics and putting weirdo puzzles is easier.

 

[Icewater]

Half-Life with F.E.A.R. combat...

 

[Lemming42]

Brutal Half-Life is worth a try for anyone wondering how Half-Life combat could be changed. Don't be put off by the stupidly unfitting gore, the mod totally reshapes combat to be a lot more responsive. You can kick and punch too, sometimes knocking enemies to the ground.

 

[JDR13]

The nostalgia is strong in this thread. Half-Life was great for its time, but it hasn't aged well. Also, the original Xen was AWFUL, so let's stop pretending that it was good and that the Black Mesa team somehow fucked it up.

 

[Wunderbar]

Original Half Life aged well and still plays fine, and Xen's shittines is way overblown.

Black Mesa is alright too.

 

[Jenkem]

Original Xen is shit. Period. Even Gabe Newell thinks it is shit and looks anguished whenever he talks about it.

 

[Dayyālu]

Even Gabe Newell thinks it is shit and looks anguished whenever he talks about it.

Gabe Newell's understanding about shooters nowadays is probably lower than the stock poster in this thread. It's the same man who was jubilant about moss growing in real time, if you don't remember. He's simply repeating memery.

Regarding how "bad" Xen is, well, the only bad things in it are a couple of jumping puzzles, for the obvious reason that first person jumping puzzles are shit. And it doesn't help that Boss fights in Half Life have always been mediocre (the Tentacles barely count because they're more of a enviromental hazard standard level), but both Gonarch and the Nihilant are .... well, "good enough" at best. Valve never got good boss fights in, remember that HL2's final fight is an elevator and two gunships that you immediately blow up.

By itself, the Xen levels are at worst rushed. There's still signs of the typical Valve care in level design (you can take alternate routes avoiding sentries in the Vortigaunt village, the Gargantua can be stealthed, some creative secrets, Vortigaunts not being hostile in Interloper) but the thing is that the union of poor visual design and those few shitty puzzles draw all the attention. Most of Xen is fine, the problem is that it looks drab and you have those shitty jumps, souring all the experience for the less patient player.

Half-Life was great for its time, but it hasn't aged well.

Then show how Half Life hasn't "aged well". Even amongst his contemporaries, Half Life keeps and edge, consider that probably its most direct opponent was Sin, a fun but deeply flawed game (I like Sin and its original approach, but it's undeniable that something went wrong at some point in its development, too many ideas and not enough refinement). Shogo: MAD? Blood 2? QUAKE II? Unreal's SP section is fun, but it's lacking compared to HL. Of course, you can compare HL to its own follow-ups like the 00ies PC shooters like.... HL2, FEAR, Doom3. I'd argue that FEAR has a better gunplay, but again, very few things can compare to FEAR's gunplay, and HL2's combat is a tad inferior to HL1. We should consider console shooters? They're all mostly trivial in design due to engine limitations (I'd freely admit that some levels in Combat Evolved are fun, tho). CoD-likes? Theme park rides, not shooters. Even the "retro" shooters craze of today fails to produce better examples.

 

[Lemming42]

The original Xen is alright up until Alien Factory, which sucks balls purely because of the enemy spam.

No matter what anyone says, Half-Life is a game where the gameplay is secondary. The visuals, the story and the big dramatic scripted/linear sequences are the reason for the game's success (fight me on this). The original Xen fit into that perfectly - genuinely alien environment, a stark contrast to everything that came before. The action slows down a little as well (until the shitty factory), which works really well, since the action in Half-Life builds and builds on itself constantly and then suddenly comes to a near-total halt when you get to Xen.

It's reminiscent of the ending of games like Daggerfall (Aetherius) and Shenmue 2 (that weird rural area).

As long as we're talking about Xen, Gonarch would be absolutely fine if it wasn't for the completely fucking inexplicable choice to make it so you can only damage her when she's stood on specific areas. Conceptually, the fight is fine, the change to three different arenas keeps things moving well, the baby headcrabs swarms are an interesting new attack, etc.

Nihilanth was always a decent boss fight, as good as any other FPS final boss. Destroy the healing crystals and then deal as much damage as you can before you get whisked away to somewhere scary by the teleports.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Gabe Newell's understanding about shooters nowadays is probably lower than the stock poster in this thread.

Not sure about his understanding of shooters today, but he said this shit back in time when Valve was actually making games and not procrastinating on steam money (I remember reading about it in some magazine).
Just listen to yourself, man. You claim that you "know more" that the very developer of game that you love so much and ready to bang your head at wall of misunderstanding from other Internet users. You free to disagree with Gaben as long as you like (hell I myself was once banned on Steam for edgy protest), but "know jack shit" is simply too arrogant to say about the very man that created game, which you so zealously defending ( although you a bit more intelligent than majority of fanatics that started screech in this thread, or at least can hold your butthurt to a reasonable degree) in first place. It's okay if someone thinks that Xen was bad, it doesn't mean that this person shitting on entire game. Just chill.

I was watching the review of some 'tard

I remember being subscribed to his channel for short time, after I discovered that he rated Doom 3 as good Doom sequel and unsubscribed.
Although sometimes he makes videos with points that I agree, he also sometimes spreading heresy all around. Watching this guy it's like fucking gamble with cannon loaded with dices from table top RPG. In this particular video, he is mostly right though.

and he started complaining how he would have liked more useful grenade throws, maybe linking it to a single button press

Interestingly enough, there is bind in options called "fast frag" that allow you to chose frag grenade quickly, I wonder now if this a bug and this button should also allow to throw grenade at enemies.
Don't be salty to devs for their inability to marry Half-Life and FEAR, because taking best things and combining it isn't so easy as it looks. I thing many people want best elements from their beloved games combined, but unfortunately dreams staying dreams.
In this particular case though, reason more prosaic - if one should change combat, he also should redesign locations and it will take not only another decade for Crowbar team, but there will be much more butthurt fanatics who will mourn "that one desk in offices" like a tragedy.
Just look at idiots in this thread and their fanbase, who in their maddening idiocy invented reason to hate game out of fart.



About whole "aging" thing - people would be right to say "it did not aged well" if majority of games that came out during all these years was actually better at Half-Life's strong points. But unfortunately only few games has reached bar and situation in general getting worse every year.
So, Half-Life still aged ok.

As long as we're talking about Xen, Gonarch would be absolutely fine if it wasn't for the completely fucking inexplicable choice to make it so you can only damage her when she's stood on specific areas.

Imho situation when I can't damage boss, because this thing has script armor, is a little immersion breaking. If I was designer I would let people defeat this abomination on first arena.

 

[Dayyālu]

Just chill.

Ah, don't think I am exceedingly angry, it's merely Codexian posting style. While I do not doubt that Gabe back in 1998 had great know-how, but games are a team effort (we have the proof of Big Names Meaning Nothing in the Kickstarter craze) and as you say nowadays Valve isn't making games (until we see HLVR in motion, at least). I've never been particularly fond of Newell for many reasons, but "Xen is bad" is a truism that is too often repeated without a proper explanation. I'd explained why, in my very humble opinion, Xen has problems, but after playing legit bad games (Blood II takes the cake, and I'm one of the weirdoes that appreciates Daikatana as a failed attempt) it's merely worse than what came before in the same game.

Merely being a bit contrarian on the Xen issue. I'd say the the least fun levels of Half Life 1+ expansions are in Blue Shift, due to lacking creativity.

Don't be salty to devs for their inability to marry Half-Life and FEAR

Not even the FEAR devs managed to keep up, after all we got FEAR 2. Sure, there are reasons why FEAR 2 is bad (cooonsole deeesign) but mine was merely idle and lazy dreaming. Much like I wondered back then why no action RPG ever took Dark Messiah's gameplay: idle thinking.

 

[Lemming42]

it's merely worse than what came before in the same game.

This is a really good point. Take the Xen levels and shove them into any of Half-Life's major rivals - Unreal for example - and they'd probably be viewed as average and nobody would be shitting on them 20 years later. At most, people would stick to criticising the parts that actually deserve criticism, like the overly-scripted nature of the Gonarch fight.

 

[JDR13]

Half-Life was great for its time, but it hasn't aged well.

Then show how Half Life hasn't "aged well". Even amongst his contemporaries, Half Life keeps and edge, consider that probably its most direct opponent was Sin, a fun but deeply flawed game (I like Sin and its original approach, but it's undeniable that something went wrong at some point in its development, too many ideas and not enough refinement). Shogo: MAD? Blood 2? QUAKE II? Unreal's SP section is fun, but it's lacking compared to HL. Of course, you can compare HL to its own follow-ups like the 00ies PC shooters like.... HL2, FEAR, Doom3. I'd argue that FEAR has a better gunplay, but again, very few things can compare to FEAR's gunplay, and HL2's combat is a tad inferior to HL1. We should consider console shooters? They're all mostly trivial in design due to engine limitations (I'd freely admit that some levels in Combat Evolved are fun, tho). CoD-likes? Theme park rides, not shooters. Even the "retro" shooters craze of today fails to produce better examples.

Er... so your entire argument is to list other games that haven't aged well?

That doesn't make HL better. It just means there are games that have aged even worse.

 

[Dayyālu]

That doesn't make HL better. It just means there are games that have aged even worse.

Nah, my point is even simpler. For something to age badly, what comes after must be superior.

Considering that the breed of shooter that Half Life can be placed in pretty much died in the 00ies, what can be directly compared nowadays? Next you'll say that Quake aged badly for unclear reasons? Why Half Life aged badly, and in comparison to what? There are contemprorary shooters (2019-era) that show superior qualities? (if you reply Dusk I'm going to tear your throat out).

 

[JDR13]

That doesn't make HL better. It just means there are games that have aged even worse.

Nah, my point is even simpler. For something to age badly, what comes after must be superior.

Considering that the breed of shooter that Half Life can be placed in pretty much died in the 00ies, what can be directly compared nowadays? Next you'll say that Quake aged badly for unclear reasons? Why Half Life aged badly, and in comparison to what? There are contemprorary shooters (2019-era) that show superior qualities (if you reply Dusk I'm going to tear your throat out).

Ah... so now it was a certain breed of shooter that doesn't exist anymore, so nothing could possibly be better.

Ok bro...

 

[Dayyālu]

Ah... so now it was a certain breed of shooter that doesn't exist anymore, so nothing could possibly be better.

Ok bro...

You aren't giving responses. I am not moving goalposts, merely stating obvious facts (PC-centric setpieces shooters like Half Life pretty much disappeared after the mid00ies, nothing particularly mindblowing about that).

Why Half Life is outdated? Graphics (agreeable, even if I disagree on the visual design part)? Gunplay? Level design? In the case, examples of newer shooters that improve significantly on what Half Life was. You are completely free to disagree, but you gotta get some meat on your disagreement: if not, yours is not even a worthwile opinion, it's.... something?

Reply to this, simple as that. Why Half Life is outdated? And compared to what? Your posts fail to give a reply to this.

 

[JDR13]

Ah... so now it was a certain breed of shooter that doesn't exist anymore, so nothing could possibly be better.

Ok bro...

You aren't giving responses. I am not moving goalposts, merely stating obvious facts (PC-centric setpieces shooters like Half Life pretty much disappeared after the mid00ies, nothing particularly mindblowing about that).

Why Half Life is outdated? Graphics (agreeable, even if I disagree on the visual design part)? Gunplay? Level design? In the case, examples of newer shooters that improve significantly on what Half Life was. You are completely free to disagree, but you gotta get some meat on your disagreement: if not, yours is not even a worthwile opinion, it's.... something?

Reply to this, simple as that. Why Half Life is outdated? And compared to what? Your posts fail to give a reply to this.

You're stating your opinion not facts. If you don't feel it's outdated in the least, that's fine, but I doubt most people would agree.

It's outdated in general. Who cares if it's a specific type of shooter? That's completely irrelevant to what I'm saying. It's ugly and clunky compared to most modern shooters, and I say that as a huge fan of the series.

Trying to claim it's somehow not outdated because those kinds of games don't exist anymore is nothing but a poor rationalization.


*Edit* Judging by the reactions, it appears I've butthurt some fanboys.

 

[Lemming42]

I don't think it's ugly and clunky compared to modern shooters. Half-Life's graphics hold up well due to strong art direction, it avoids the pitfalls of a lot of 90s 3D games.

Clunky maybe, given that it was always clunky, but the smooth Call of Duty style gameplay seems to be slowly fading out now. People are turning to games that emulate older titles, like Dusk and Wrath, which resemble Half-Life's combat - bullet-spongey enemies, no cover system, and you're intended to take damage.

 

[JDR13]

It's pretty damn ugly by today's standards. That's nothing against HL of course. Like I said, I'm a huge fan of the series. Truth is, none of the 3D games from that era have aged well visually. That's why I'm grateful for Black Mesa. It's not perfect, but it lets me play one of my all-time favorite shooters with decent visuals.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people who don't care what HL looks like, but there's also nothing wrong with appreciating a higher level of visual fidelity.

 

[Lemming42]

Agreed, I love Black Mesa's visual design. But it's not that I don't just not care how Half-Life looks, I genuinely think it looks great. There are a lot of 3D 90s games that look great today. Thief, Half-Life, Unreal, Crash Bandicoot, even the original Quake. Strong art direction compensates for limited technical capability every time (even Morrowind, which looks absolutely horrible on a technical level, holds up for me due to its unique art style). Similarly I think a lot of 2010s games show us that a great modern graphics engine can't compensate for weak art direction.

Black Mesa definitely shows that older games can receive successful remakes that surpass the visuals of the original, though. Xen is the only part of the original Half-Life I'd say looks better than Black Mesa, and that's only really because I prefer the dark green colour scheme to the blue/purple one Black Mesa has.