Blizzard is not innovative

[Rhombus]

I think I can speak for most fans of the franchise in saying that we wish Bethesda would have stayed conservative and used the old Fallout engine.

Whoever said that on Mr Inovashun's blog is dumb... The old Fallout engine sucks in comparison to some newer 3rd person isometric ones or what you call it... I would not want Fallout 3 to use the same. Guess I'm not part of "most of the fans"...

Personally I would have loved it to have something like the Silent Storm one, only better...

Rotating the camera, zooming. Being able to climb up and over things, or being able to (attempt to) jump over or across things, or using ropes or other helpful objects in various ways to accomplish this. Being able to shoot through walls, with totally destructible enviroment (the Havoc physics thing in Diablo 3 sounds fun), etc would be awesome in a game like Fallout...

That's the kind of engine related innovation I would have loved Beth for.. instead of going FPS with bloom.

 

[Callaxes]

If you want to try something new, why not do it in a new franchise? Heck, even a spin off is safer.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Did WC3 yank the hero based RTS idea from somewhere or did they come up with that on their own? Either way, it made me ill when I fired up Sins and found they had basically the same fucking system. The same with D2's skill trees. It's the only way anyone does levelling now. Every fucking MMO, Diablo clone, DnD, all fucking skill tree based. No stat requirement systems, or free choice, or divded skill pools, or anything like that. Gain X points per level and spend them in the skill tree.

 

[spiwak]

I think I can speak for most fans of the franchise in saying that we wish Bethesda would have stayed conservative and used the old Fallout engine.

Whoever said that on Mr Inovashun's blog is dumb... The old Fallout engine sucks in comparison to some newer 3rd person isometric ones or what you call it... I would not want Fallout 3 to use the same. Guess I'm not part of "most of the fans"...

Personally I would have loved it to have something like the Silent Storm one, only better...

Rotating the camera, zooming. Being able to climb up and over things, or being able to (attempt to) jump over or across things, or using ropes or other helpful objects in various ways to accomplish this. Being able to shoot through walls, with totally destructible enviroment (the Havoc physics thing in Diablo 3 sounds fun), etc would be awesome in a game like Fallout...

That's the kind of engine related innovation I would have loved Beth for.. instead of going FPS with bloom.

Well yeah. Even Van Buren wasn't going to have the "old Fallout" engine. Anyone that actually hoped or believed Bethesda would use that engine is just retarded. Just retarded.

Probably what the guy meant was an isometric camera as opposed to the over-the-shoulder RE4 camera angle.

 

[Suicidal]

Did WC3 yank the hero based RTS idea from somewhere or did they come up with that on their own?

Could be Warlords Battlecry, but I'm not sure.

 

[Suchy]

But the guy is right! D3 is soooo last gen...

...btw Diablo is to be blamed for today's lack of R in RPGs. Painfully dumb clickfest and sold like fresh rolls...

 

[Damned Registrations]

Has anyone ever played Record of Lodoss War for the Dreamcast or the last 2 Shining Force games on the PS2? They qualify as the best Diablo clones I've seen so far. They don't have anything in terms of atmosphere or story (Well, the first one has some atmosphere) but if you just want to skip all the dialogue and hack and slash your way around, they're pretty fun. No skills to learn, all spells and special attacks are based on your equipment, you customize your character through spending mythril to crank stats, of which there are a lot. For a swordsman for example, Aside from attack power, there is knockback, stun, speed, crit chance, crit multiplier, and enemy specializations. It's pretty open so you can wander off and get your ass handed to you, or level up off the story path and come back and 1HKO every boss you find for an hour.

 

[Lemunde]

But the guy is right! D3 is soooo last gen...

...btw Diablo is to be blamed for today's lack of R in RPGs. Painfully dumb clickfest and sold like fresh rolls...

But damn it tasted good.

 

[Pussycat669]

I should have said "making a FPS out of an RTS and calling it a sequel".

Yeah, that's probably true. Battlezone seems to be an exception though (in case you're talking about genre transition in general). I mean, they took a simple arcade shooter and turned it into a fun action/strategy hybrid. You may say that they could have done pretty much everything with the old Battlezone and it still would have been an improvement but it's nevertheless a reason not to make such absolute statements.

 

[Raapys]

But the guy is right! D3 is soooo last gen...

...btw Diablo is to be blamed for today's lack of R in RPGs. Painfully dumb clickfest and sold like fresh rolls...

Huh? Diablo basically just does what all the first RPGs did; give you a dungeon crawl. It was later that 'role-playing' was introduced.

 

[Annonchinil]

Anybody feel that D3 will simply be fun? I mean just using the spells abilities and the combat that they have shown gets me excited. Like the firebomb, it actually feels like a firebomb that kicks ass with the right trajectory arc and sense of weight from simply seeing its use in the trailer. Same with Barbarians whirlwind.

 

[Xor]

I have no doubt it will be fun. Blizzard has yet to disappoint me with a boring game.

 

[Claw]

The only thing I have to say about this topic is: Who cares what Ashley Cheng thinks? Who is Ashley Cheng?
Wait, don't answer that. I don't care.

 

[Fat Dragon]

So. Bethesda, a company that has only dumbed down an RPG system that they've been using since 1994, has the balls to criticize Blizzard for not being innovative?

 

[Heresiarch]

Hey, dumbing down RPG systems IS innovative in itself!

But who cares about innovation? All the new, innovative games either implemented stupid mini-games or stupid systems which doesn't work at all.

I think many producers got the idea of "innovative" wrong - it's not about making your game looking fancier, but making your game more fun to play.

 

[Annonchinil]

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6193315/p-2.html

Jon Miller: A new intellectual property. As much as I like discovering new loot, I find the hack-and-slash gameplay of Diablo too simple for my tastes. I'm excited for co-op play, I'm excited to see how Blizzard will improve upon Diablo II's formula, but I feel that the action RPG is evolving. Diablo was a seminal game, yes. But years later, action RPGs have a lot more diversity. For my money, I prefer Oblivion or the upcoming Fallout 3. I respect the Diablo franchise, but I was hoping that Blizzard would blow me away with something new it hasn't yet tried. Sadly, it didn't.

 

[bozia2012]

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6193315/p-2.html

Jon Miller: A new intellectual property. As much as I like discovering new loot, I find the hack-and-slash gameplay of Diablo too simple for my tastes. I'm excited for co-op play, I'm excited to see how Blizzard will improve upon Diablo II's formula, but I feel that the action RPG is evolving. Diablo was a seminal game, yes. But years later, action RPGs have a lot more diversity. For my money, I prefer Oblivion or the upcoming Fallout 3. I respect the Diablo franchise, but I was hoping that Blizzard would blow me away with something new it hasn't yet tried. Sadly, it didn't.

"Too simple for my tastes". OOOH!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!!

 

[gc051360]

They're fun, DI. Fun. That's what sells games. Being fun.

I don't play an FPS or an Action-RPG to have deep story interaction and tons of branching choices. And neither does anyone who's even remotely normal. They're played because they're fun - Diablo responds well with our innate hunter/gatherer instncts and an FPS; well, it's just great fun to walk around pretty places blowing stuff up.

That said...

No, Blizzard isn't innovative. That's a lot better than trying to have "innovashun" and failing.

Just seems that you're settling for fast food when you could be asking to go to a restaurant.

Explain to me how Diablo is fun yet its clones are not?

It's kind of like AC/DC.

AC/DC plays pretty simple songs, and lots of bands have tried to copy them.

But the bands that copy them suck, while AC/DC rules.

2 AC/DC wannabes that come to mind are Jackal, and Jet.

 

[ushdugery]

Just seems that you're settling for fast food when you could be asking to go to a restaurant.

Thats a flawed comparison things can be simple masterpieces while you are demanding that there is a quality difference because of the lack of complexity.

 

[Balor]

You want innovation?
Play Ice-pick lodge games.

 

[aboyd]

Diablo was a seminal game, yes. But years later, action RPGs have a lot more diversity. For my money, I prefer Oblivion or the upcoming Fallout 3.

I wouldn't put it past Bethesda PR people to have "enouraged" comments like this. I find them to be slightly scumbaggy, so the idea of attacking a competitor via proxy... well, let's just say I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Xor]

Just seems that you're settling for fast food when you could be asking to go to a restaurant.

Thats a flawed comparison things can be simple masterpieces while you are demanding that there is a quality difference because of the lack of complexity.

Get out of here with your "logic."

 

[Nameless0ne]

I believe Blizzard to actually be a real innovator in terms of getting the atmosphere, genre, quality, game play experience RIGHT All the games made by Blizzard has most concepts taken from already popular released games.

For me, whenever i play a Diablo clone, i do not get same sense of attachment that i get by playing Diablo. Personally, after watchin the 20mins gameplay footage of Diablo 3 -- i liked it! But, i have to say i dont think i'll love it more than the original Diablo.

Blizzard basically works on the idea of refining their games to the extreme extent!!! Which has always worked for them. Somehow they can always do it

 

[Mareus]

I think one needs to define innovation before you can smear another, top end developer by being "disappointed."

1. something new or different introduced: numerous innovations in the high-school curriculum.
2. the act of innovating; introduction of new things or methods.

So if we are to believe Bethesda's or at least one of their developer's stances on "Innovation," they should have thrown First-Person out the window by now, and completely removed all similar game-play mechanics. They should have done this because creating a sequel leads to "old, tired methods"(Todd, 2008) and as such, the new games in a series should be entirely different and not represent the old game, at all.

Bethesda believes that to improve something is to try something entirely different all in the sake of innovation, while alienating a game's original fan base. I think this is why Blizzard is one of the most respected names in the industry, they just get it. Contrast them with a company like Bethesda who toss around more rhetoric and dis-information to persuade new users into their philosophically weak and ignorant marketing of "good game design."

Diablo 3 is a game being made for the fans. It has a fan base that is so huge, because of it's prior "good game design" that the developers only need to tweak, improve, and add new things to an already functional gaming experience. This is where Bethesda fails. They remove the best gaming mechanics, in the name of innovation, only to water down the experience their past customers are looking for. What old fan hasn't been pointing to Daggerfall as a masterpiece that Bethesda could have carried over more features, improved these features, and then added to them, instead of removing for the sake of simplicity and innovation?

Bethesda is just appealing to the most morons who will possibly buy their games, while Blizzard appeases its growing fan base by giving them the games they want to play without utterly removing the most solid, series defining, features of the older games.

Ashley Chung is just caught up in Bethesda's corporate Rhetoric. He somehow believes, and I will use the dictionary.com quote as an example, that innovation in a High School doesn't mean to focus on the most potential to educate.

This needs to be reposted again in it's full glory. I 100% agree.

 

[1eyedking]

Blizzard not innovative? Bwahahaha, tell me another one!

Some examples:
- WarCraft II's brilliant balance.
- Diablo's item bonanza.
- StarCraft's unique races.
- Diablo II's skill trees.
- Warcraft III's heroes.

Ever wondered why playing Diablo feels so much different than playing Diablo II? Or playing WarCraft III than StarCraft?