Game News Bloodlines official site is up

[DrattedTin]

Well, Egyptian mythology DOES get credit for being the only vampire myth to make the vampire *benevolent*.

 

[Astromarine]

*sigh* Ah, how much I longed for the long-known tactic of making one aspect of a thing your own, and then deriding every other part of that thing for not being YOUR aspect. Teeny tactics at their best.

CC, desist God damn it. Egypt has vampires, China has vampires, Japan has the fucking Penaggolan, Central Europe has vampires, south America has Vampires... It is a bloody ANCIENT myth, and the Central European one has NOTHING SPECIAL about it except that a damn fine English bloke chose to make a damn good book about it, thus making it "canon" in the minds of a bunch of non-Historians. You being THA NOULEDGABEL ISTOREEN should be fucking ashamed of the narrowness of your vision. Yet another crack in your "armor of culture" that you pretend to have to profess relevancy. Are the nice subtexts of struggles with God and redemption/lack of it present in most other myths? No. This makes the CE one an especially good one, not "canon". Most American stories focussing on the supernatural will OF NECESSITY focus on "importing" myths and cultures, purely because America is too young to have much self-developed myth.

(As an aside, you all read Neil Gaiman's "American Gods". It really shows America's "youngness" but at the same time shows it's beauty. In the midst of all this (well-deserved) hatred for your politics and military incursions, it's good to read something that points out why your country is also worthy of love)

Vampire is a game that is supposed to be played in your own town. At least that's the best way to play it. I find it shows very well the difference between American cities and Vampire culture and European cities. When I played it, I was living in a 2 THOUSAND year old town, and trust me our sessions were very different from the typical guy living in LA. White Wolf had two choices: Either force everyone to play their campaign with Budapest as the setting, or adapt the setting to American cities. I find they did a good job of it.

So please, quit your tiring "GGAAAH. IT DOSE NOT HAB OTOMANS. TIS GAEM IS TEH SUCK!!!!11!" Enjoy the game for what it is, or at least leave the rest of us who plan to give it a shot to enjoy speculating on our own. I know this is a thread about Vampires, so it's bizarrely appropriate, but stop trying to suck the life out of the thread, kid.

Grumpy Pop Astro

PS - I leave to Volourn and Skorpy any possible extension of the "choose an aspect and belittle everything else" argument to encompass Fallout, all other RPGs, and RPGCodex. I won't do it, because a) bashing is fun and b) I happen to agree with people here

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You know, that's one area that Vampire: the Masquerade falls painfully short. Instead of having clans of vampires based on myths from all the cultures, they pretty much stick with the whole thing about Cain, who slew Abel and was marked by God thing. Then they follow it up with Modern Vampire = Goth thing. There's not as much diversity as there really should be an a PnP RPG that's devoted to vampires.

 

[Astromarine]

well, they do have eastern vampires, and the vampire=goth thing is really only for the American Sabbat and stuff. The Giovanni, for example, are ruthless dead-raising businessmen. The Ventrue, oldskool Brujah also have a distinct, aristocratic feel. Then there's the weird shit like the Samedi, Salubri, etc. Plus you can get a much more "traditional" feel by reading the European sourcebooks. The Assamites are arabian hashashini, the Followers of Set are egyptian vampires with a corruption aspect...

Really, Saint, the setting is a lot richer than people give it credit for. It's just that most *players* are Goths and they use the game to live out their fantasies (sorry, we're talking about Goths. Phantasyes)

 

[Voss]

The Penaggolan is more SE Asian than Japanese (who have their own large assortment of blood-sucking ghosts of different types and demeanors.)

America is worthy of love? What a strange thing to say.

 

[Astromarine]

Read American Gods then.

 

[Ausir]

Actually, World of Darkness also has the Chinese vampires ("Kindred of the East" sourcebook).

The word "vampire" is slavic in origin (it was "upior" in Polish, which now means more like "wraith", though). The blood-sucking monsters from other mythologies have names of their own . As for vampire and the God, vampires are from a pagan mythology, so there wasn't really anything about God in the original myths.
And not much of the pre-christian culture (including mythical creatures) is known in Poland, as the pagans were pretty much christened by the sword here, and the old myths were lost...

 

[MF]

English bloke chose to make a damn good book about it, thus making it "canon" in the minds of a bunch of non-Historians.)

Irish Bloke, mind you

CCR : There's no need to interfere. There are no Byzantines in this game.
Just Vampires. And the setting doesn't really matter. Nor does the religious aspect. The Vampires may believe that, but that does not necessarily make it true, even in the game world. At least that's what you can imagine yourself.

White Wolf's vampires are pretty open, so you can leave some things to your own imagination while still having a common 'vampire' platform to play with friends.

That's all it is. Stoker's book was not even that. It's a (great) work of fiction, delivered as-is. Not to start a vampire myth, which it did, essentially becoming for modern fiction/film entertainment what White Wolf's V:TM is to PNP RPGing as far as vampires are concerned. (Never mind the flawed perspective coming from the fact that White Wolf is of couse also inspired by Stoker's novel.)

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

It looks like the vast majority of Vampires are somehow or other related to a bad relationship with God/spirituality, most foreign and most obvious being the Chinese Chi'ang Shi, a dead man/woman who grew hair in death, and who's negative soul (P'o) lived on. Sound familiar?

The Penaggolan is Indonesian, and is a severd head with attached intestins that flys around, either because of some freak surprise accident or some older woman who practiced dark magic. Probably a variant, another Indonesian vampire kills children by sucking blood out of them out of a hole in the back of her head because she had a stillborn child. She could become normal again if hair was stuffed in the hole. That barely, BARELY counts as a Vampire, and is MUCH closer to being some random mythological creation.

There are some more interesting ones- a Bulgarian with one nostril, and Nosfurateu traditionally is closer to being a hunchback due to being a third generation bastard. There is a german variant the slings excrement around when it is not drinking blood.

There are some more interesting ones, but I think my point (if there is one, it should be admitted) is that the majority of interesting Vampires deal with what was the center of medival life-spirituality, and the V:tM misses that point.

Also, I think the Arabian Ghoul easily counts as one, and is probably among the top three most interesting variants.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

well, they do have eastern vampires, and the vampire=goth thing is really only for the American Sabbat and stuff. The Giovanni, for example, are ruthless dead-raising businessmen.

The Giovanni basically dress up-scale goth from the pictures I've seen, mostly black, horn rimmed glasses, have numerous piercings, and so on - even if they are wearing business suits.

Followers of Set are egyptian vampires with a corruption aspect...

Who still stem from Cain, though. I know there's an Egyptianesque cult there who seem to have an affinity for snakes and use Egyptian themes, but they're still the whole mainstream Eurocentric deal. It'd be like putting an American deer in a African bush display and say it's an African Elk when it's still a common white tail.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

O yeah XJEDX, and these guys-

-are NOT responsible for popular angst over the last twenty years- they are just misunderstood!

 

[Voss]

Who are they?
Some sort of meat-puppets? (Celebrities?)

And St.P, according to the Settites they don't descend from Cain. They believe that Set became a god while exiled into the Outer Darkness from Egypt.
And business suits are, by default, not goth. Could even be considered anti-goth. Well at least to real Goths, as opposed to the pseudo-gothlings you get running around these days.

 

[Astromarine]

Meh, only if they changed a lot. The clanbook Giovanni that I read had them as a very matter-of-fact businessment out of Old Italy. Kind of a cross between Mafiosi and necromancers. There is NOTHING more anti-goth than stock-market-manipulating Mafiosi.

As for Setites, some people say they're descended from Cain, some not. Still, Cain is supposedly the origin of the whole line. Still, what we were talking about was VTM being only "gothy" and I was merely pointing out that there were a lot of bloodlines which were quite far outside the Gothy stereotype.

As for CCR, you have a long post with only one point: VTM has no spirituality. Only thing I can say is: If YOU never had spirituality in Vampire, it's because noone ever took you there. The game's premise is supposed to be a race of beings damned by the acts of their sire, Cain. There are incredible amounts of potential there for spiritual-based characters and campaign, and the setting itself encourages this (the Salubri bloodline, the Path Of Humanity and others, etc) The entire concept of Golconda has huge potential for spirituality. It's not WW's fault that everyone you know makes campaigns with superheroes with fangs and leather vests.

You got me on the Penny, he's not Japanese. My bad. But next time make your point instead of spouting irrelevant facts and mentioning your point as a throwaway last line. ALMOST EVERY myth stemming from medieval times (fuck, even current ones) has to do with spirituality in one way or another. Why would that make vampires especially yummy and special?

 

[Jed]

O yeah XJEDX, and these guys-

-are NOT responsible for popular angst over the last twenty years- they are just misunderstood!

I have no idea who those chumps are, but I can tell you they have nothing to do with anarchy.

At any rate, I suspect you have little grasp on the meaning of "angst"; let me help you:
Main Entry: angst
Pronunciation: 'ä[ng](k)st, 'a[ng](k)st
Function: noun
Etymology: Danish & German; Danish, from German
Date: circa 1942
: a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity

Sound familiar? Your daily emotional rollercoaster while walking the halls getting your head slammed into lockers by the jocks and ignored by the popular girls you have crushes on?

 

[Whipporowill]

That's bloody Sex Pistols...

Nothing do with anarchy? Alright, if you say so

 

[GreenNight]

As for CCR, you have a long post with only one point: VTM has no spirituality. Only thing I can say is: If YOU never had spirituality in Vampire, it's because noone ever took you there. The game's premise is supposed to be a race of beings damned by the acts of their sire, Cain. There are incredible amounts of potential there for spiritual-based characters and campaign, and the setting itself encourages this (the Salubri bloodline, the Path Of Humanity and others, etc) The entire concept of Golconda has huge potential for spirituality. It's not WW's fault that everyone you know makes campaigns with superheroes with fangs and leather vests.

Completely true. My last character in a medieval vampire setting was an ex-crusader Brujah, who had true faith and was haunted by the gost of a muslim wizard that was exorcising a vampire dressed up like a misionaire, the soon to be my Sire. I had an inner fight to resist my unnatural hunger for blood and did my best to be as human as possible and to help whoever I could. All this while keeping the masquerade.

Yeah, I hardly ever make a normal character. No the story didn't last long, we find it hard to meet each other as often as we would like.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

I tried to make one of those kind of Chars- I kicked everyone's ass everywhere, damn they where stupid. Anyone remember my use of Char speech? I think that I was able to do that is a testement to the strength of the system, but them being surprised was a testement to the average intellegence and angst level of your average V:tM player.
XJEDX, I feel betrayed. Any anarchist who says the Pistols has nothing to do with Anarchy, let alone with angst, and that you do not know them......Your nothing to me now. I dont want to see you at the hotels.

 

[Astromarine]

those aren't the Pistols. The Pistols died at 23 in a puddle of their own piss and vomit and were replaced by these middle aged money-grubbing robots. Fuck them

 

[Whipporowill]

Invasion of the body snatchers, indeed!

 

[Jed]

those aren't the Pistols. The Pistols died at 23 in a puddle of their own piss and vomit and were replaced by these middle aged money-grubbing robots. Fuck them

Not to mention the fact that they were highly overrated anyway. Where the fuck is Sid in that photo, anyway? Anyway, just because some band writes a song with the word "anarchy" in there name doesn't mean shit to the concept. If I write a song named "Craprunner is a Moron" and get J-Lo to perform it, does that change your reality? Punk and anarchy have had plenty of ties for the last 25 years, but the two are absolutely mutually exclusive.

At any rate, have fun at "the hotels," whatever the fuck that means in Crap-Speak...

PS- Angst does note equate with anger. Read the definition I posted before.

 

[Ausir]

Actually, according to the World of Darkness mythology (as explained in the Mummy sourcebook), Set is another name for Cain, and Osiris another name for Abel (Set also killed his brother Osiris, just like Cain killed Abel).

 

[MF]

Angst literally just translates to fear.
Anyone care to enlighten me on why the English speaking world adopted it as something different from what it was in its original language? If adopted it as and not derived from some other word like anxiety? Not that I want to start a terribly off-topic conversation.

 

[Constipated Craprunner]

Sorry, but Egyptian Mythology had little in the creation of Judaisim, dispite what the revisionists say. Dumbasses. The idea that you can only worship one god is diffirent then the idea that there is only one god, and nothing will ever prove that the two are really related. Perhaps some Mesopatamian Mythology, but as little Egyptian as could be imagined.

All real anarchists died with the Russian Revolution, or the Spanish Civil War. The rest are fallowers of the Pistols, or just pathetic posers who stand by the black flag because they are tired of loosing arguments to people with real ideas.

Angst? I am more Travis Bikle with Byzantine History instead of paranoid dillusions than an Angsty Teenager. Angsty Teenagers are part of the out crowd- I am outside of that.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

And business suits are, by default, not goth. Could even be considered anti-goth. Well at least to real Goths, as opposed to the pseudo-gothlings you get running around these days.

That's hardly true. Hell, even in the manual that shipped with V:tM-Redemption, there's a prime example of how a business suit can look gothic. Ever watched Angel? The people who work for the evil law firm in that show often dress on the business side of goth.

 

[Voss]

Theres a difference between goth and the popular media representation of pseudo-gothling. If you search really hard you can still find a real goth running around about midnight trying to find a place to buy absinthe while wearing scavenged Victorian-era outfits.
But sadly, goth is largely dead, which is what they all really wanted anyway.