Book club for top 100/legendary games?

[Nutmeg]

Why would I spend time playing some random mainstream game that made some journalist's or hivemind's top 100? The odds of any one of my top 100 appearing on that list are less than 5%, I have probably played them already, and I'd rather just play the games I like instead. Now if you'll excuse me I am going back to playing Unity of Command 2 in between sessions of Hishouzame.

What are some of your favorite games? Genuinely curious, you seem to have unique taste.

Most of my top 100, if I ever were to write such a thing, would be filled with action games for the arcades from the late 80s and 90s, some console games in the same spirit, a bunch of TBS games, mostly Japanese, sprinkled with a few PC classics that would surprise no one.

I have a special interest in games that have sound formats with regards to saving, difficulty, and scoring or otherwise rating the player's performance. In the case the format is not sound, I can make an exception if the game was designed as if it were or has a mode where it is.

 

[Spike]

Why would I spend time playing some random mainstream game that made some journalist's or hivemind's top 100? The odds of any one of my top 100 appearing on that list are less than 5%, I have probably played them already, and I'd rather just play the games I like instead. Now if you'll excuse me I am going back to playing Unity of Command 2 in between sessions of Hishouzame.

What are some of your favorite games? Genuinely curious, you seem to have unique taste.

Most of my top 100, if I ever were to write such a thing, would be filled with action games for the arcades from the late 80s and 90s, some console games in the same spirit, a bunch of TBS games, mostly Japanese, sprinkled with a few PC classics that would surprise no one.

I have a special interest in games that have sound formats with regards to saving, difficulty, and scoring or otherwise rating the player's performance. In the case the format is not sound, I can make an exception if the game was designed as if it were or has a mode where it is.

Neat. Now those Japanese TBS games...3 recommendations?

 

[Nutmeg]

Why would I spend time playing some random mainstream game that made some journalist's or hivemind's top 100? The odds of any one of my top 100 appearing on that list are less than 5%, I have probably played them already, and I'd rather just play the games I like instead. Now if you'll excuse me I am going back to playing Unity of Command 2 in between sessions of Hishouzame.

What are some of your favorite games? Genuinely curious, you seem to have unique taste.

Most of my top 100, if I ever were to write such a thing, would be filled with action games for the arcades from the late 80s and 90s, some console games in the same spirit, a bunch of TBS games, mostly Japanese, sprinkled with a few PC classics that would surprise no one.

I have a special interest in games that have sound formats with regards to saving, difficulty, and scoring or otherwise rating the player's performance. In the case the format is not sound, I can make an exception if the game was designed as if it were or has a mode where it is.

Neat. Now those Japanese TBS games...3 recommendations?

I'm guessing you want some less common recommendations so:

• Vantage Master Online (it's single player only, despite the name) or Vantage Master Japan (untranslated but works the same way as VMO)
• Culdcept 2 (the only one I've played, although every game in the series is loved).
• Carnage Heart (original and then EZ with a translation guide, straight away if you can read Japanese).
• Kunitori Zunou Battle (untranslated but there's a video somewhere explaining how to play).
• Gungnir and Knights in the Knightmare. Don't let the UIs, art style and steep learning curves intimidate.
• Neo Nectaris. Like Advance Wars but with tighter level design. Well known but no one plays it.
• Days of Ruin. It's my favorite Advance Wars because of the unit roster and the low key CO powers, but it's overlooked by many.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I note that even these kinds of things made by people who are going in with good intentions rather than trying to tear down other people's favorites tend to fizzle out quickly. It's generally hard to get people to get people to play the same game together even if you have one game a month and it's a beloved classic. I suspect in this case it's going to turn into just you complaining about some game from the top 100.

 

[Spike]

Why would I spend time playing some random mainstream game that made some journalist's or hivemind's top 100? The odds of any one of my top 100 appearing on that list are less than 5%, I have probably played them already, and I'd rather just play the games I like instead. Now if you'll excuse me I am going back to playing Unity of Command 2 in between sessions of Hishouzame.

What are some of your favorite games? Genuinely curious, you seem to have unique taste.

Most of my top 100, if I ever were to write such a thing, would be filled with action games for the arcades from the late 80s and 90s, some console games in the same spirit, a bunch of TBS games, mostly Japanese, sprinkled with a few PC classics that would surprise no one.

I have a special interest in games that have sound formats with regards to saving, difficulty, and scoring or otherwise rating the player's performance. In the case the format is not sound, I can make an exception if the game was designed as if it were or has a mode where it is.

Neat. Now those Japanese TBS games...3 recommendations?

I'm guessing you want some less common recommendations so:

• Vantage Master Online (it's single player only, despite the name) or Vantage Master Japan (untranslated but works the same way as VMO)
• Culdcept 2 (the only one I've played, although every game in the series is loved).
• Carnage Heart (original and then EZ with a translation guide, straight away if you can read Japanese).
• Kunitori Zunou Battle (untranslated but there's a video somewhere explaining how to play).
• Gungnir and Knights in the Knightmare. Don't let the UIs, art style and steep learning curves intimidate.
• Neo Nectaris. Like Advance Wars but with tighter level design. Well known but no one plays it.
• Days of Ruin. It's my favorite Advance Wars because of the unit roster and the low key CO powers, but it's overlooked by many.

Exactly what I was looking for, thank you. I remember Gungnir and Knights in the Nightmare but they're toward the bottom of my backlog. Any more less common with medieval fantasy settings?

 

[Nutmeg]

If you play games for setting, story, atmosphere, immersion etc. then we have completely different tastes and you are better off ignoring my recommendations. I play games 99% for interesting single player challenge. All the other stuff can only turn me away if I find it offensive (e.g. a tranny character) but otherwise I just consider it a small bonus if it's good and it doesn't affect my like or dislike of a game at all.

Any more less common with medieval fantasy settings?

Koei's Gemfire, I guess, except it's a very easy game. Still an addictive little map painter.

Perhaps its untranslated sequel Royal Blood 2 is better but my Japanese knowledge isn't strong enough to play the game comfortably.

I assume you are familiar with Fire Emblem and Langrisser? Langrisser 2 for the Mega Drive is the only one that poses a challenge. I have no idea what FE is about these days, it seems to have gone in a direction I do not care for at all and would recommend against playing completely, but 5, 7 and 12 were all top notch games. That said the series never quite reconciled its wildly varying RNG based battle outcomes with its survival focused player rating -- even with a perfect risk mitigating strategy there is a small chance you have to restart a stage.

The only other things that are coming to mind are Rondo of Swords, Covenant of the Plume and Yggdra Union. All good games. The first one quite excellent, actually

I remember Gungnir and Knights in the Nightmare but they're toward the bottom of my backlog

They should be near the top as they are top 5 in sub-genre. Gungnir in particular is much better than broken toyboxes such as sub-genre normie favorites Tactics Ogre or FFT.

 

[Spike]

If you play games for setting, story, atmosphere, immersion etc. then we have completely different tastes and you are better off ignoring my recommendations. I play games 99% for Gameplay. All the other stuff can only turn me away if I find it offensive (e.g. a tranny character) but otherwise I just consider it a small bonus if it's good and it doesn't affect my like or dislike of a game at all.

Any more less common with medieval fantasy settings?

Koei's Gemfire, I guess, except it's a very easy game. Still an addictive little map painter.

Perhaps its untranslated sequel Royal Blood 2 is better but my Japanese knowledge isn't strong enough to play the game comfortably.

I assume you are familiar with Fire Emblem and Langrisser? Langrisser 2 for the Mega Drive is the only one that poses a challenge. I have no idea what FE is about these days, it seems to have gone in a direction I do not care for at all and would recommend against playing completely, but 5, 7 and 12 were all top notch games. That said the series never quite reconciled its wildly varying RNG based battle outcomes with its survival focussed player rating -- even with a perfect risk mitigating strategy there is a small chance you have to restart a stage.

The only other things that are coming to mind are Rondo of Swords, Covenant of the Plume and Yggdra Union. All good games. The first one quite excellent, actually

I remember Gungnir and Knights in the Nightmare but they're toward the bottom of my backlog

They should be near the top as they are top 10 in sub-genre. Gungnir in particular is much better than broken toyboxes such as sub-genre normie favorites Tactics Ogre or FFT.

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. No, I play for gameplay but if I can help it, I would like a kino game in a kino medieval fantasy/feudal Japan setting. That Nobunaga one is extremely enticing. I like the art style for Gugnir and Knights in the Nightmare. Yes, I have been meaning to play all early and good FE games. I will note 5, 7, and 12. TBS is a genre I have largely untapped so it's super exciting to jump in.

Appreciate your input and guidance. Do you have an all-time favorite for TBS or is it more just a general top 10?

 

[Nutmeg]

Nah. All the ones I have mentioned so far are favorites of mine. Vantage Master Japan and Days of Ruin have the most refined systems of the games mentioned.

I skipped Front Mission 5, some Super Robot Wars games, and the Valkyria Chronicles games (which come with a fat don't repeat missions caveat but are otherwise excellent) which are all good too so you can add those.

Of course I also have my own backlog and there are a few games that look interesting which I haven't played, at least not as extensively as I would like e.g. Power Dolls 3 and 4, Hybrid Front, Gihren's Greed etc.

 

[Spike]

Nah. All the ones I have listed so far are favorites of mine. I skipped Front Mission 5, some Super Robot Wars games, and the Valkyria Chronicles games (which come with a fat don't repeat missions caveat but are otherwise excellent) which are all good too so you can add those.

Of course I also have my own backlog and there are a few games that look interesting which I haven't played, at least not as extensively as I would like e.g. Power Dolls 3 and 4, Hybrid Front, Gihren's Greed etc.

Neat, duly noted. I have a playthrough of Valkyria Chronicles playthrough I need to finish but I love the game. Digging all these recommendations.

EDIT: Oh, what do you mean by "do not repeat missions"?
EDIT 2: I have a game that is turn-based tactics that is supposedly good: Infested Fortress.

 

[Nutmeg]

EDIT: Oh, what do you mean by "do not repeat missions"?

Means don't grind XP in the skirmish maps.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Dude, you have almost as many posts in a month than I have since I joined here 3 years ago. And I thought I spent too much time here. What you need is to go outside.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I didn't mean you, Nutmeg, I was talking to the OP, although you're clearly insane as well.

 

[Viata]

Can't join this year, I already have my 100 games planned for this year, of which 7 of them I have already finished. 100 games in a year will be good enough given that last year I played like 10 kek

 

[Vic]

Can't join this year, I already have my 100 games planned for this year, of which 7 of them I have already finished. 100 games in a year will be good enough given that last year I played like 10 kek

what's your list?

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Why would I spend time playing some random mainstream game that made some journalist's or hivemind's top 100? The odds of any one of my top 100 appearing on that list are less than 5%, I have probably played them already, and I'd rather just play the games I like instead. Now if you'll excuse me I am going back to playing Unity of Command 2 in between sessions of Hishouzame.

What are some of your favorite games? Genuinely curious, you seem to have unique taste.

Its not that unique. I mean it’s just a SHUMP and a strategy game. And while not really mainstream today, in the ‘80s and ‘90s shoot ‘em ups were one of the biggest genres around; they were played by everyone, and most every arcade or pizza place in America had at least one that everyone played. When my high school still had arcade cabinets in the entrance lobby area for the gym even the school at least had one SHUMP sometimes that everyone played from time to time. If you’re of a certain age, an age when arcade games were still all over the place, at the least over the age of 25, playing SHUMPs in arcades, pizza places, bowling alleys, skating rinks, movie theatres, and maybe even a gas station or movie rental places wasn’t some outside of the norm thing to do.

Strategy games, turn based ones anyways, were never really mainstream though outside of maybe Advance Wars and Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and 3. Although mid ‘90s stuff like Pazner General, Robert E. Lee: Civil War General, and Steel Panther weren’t exactly obscure. And the 4X Civilization or Civilization 2 was probably something a lot of schools had somewhere.

 

[Nutmeg]

All the same, sadly, not many people would put a shmup, bmup, rail shooter, light gun or pinball game in their top N list. A fighting game might make it, while a TBS is quite likely, as a JA, X-COM, HoMM or Civ game wouldn't surprise anyone on a top 100.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I think it depends, and I think that kind of comes down to ubiquitous place shmups and just kind of arcade games in general hold for a lot of people. Like left to their own devices a lot of people probably wouldn’t put them on there if they were just drawing up some top list on their own. But if it was a list you were talking through with people, and you were reminded them of shmups they might have played in the arcade, you could probably sway some people. Beat ‘em ups are probably like that too. Your average person who isn’t really into beat ‘em ups, their mind might not immediately jump to this or that beat ‘em up as one of the best games ever; but if you were like six years old at any point in the ‘90s you probably also played a lot of beat ‘em ups and even really loved a few of them...that’s probably true of anyone that was a kid in the ‘90s that was born before 1990 and at least lived in some western country or Japan.

Here I wouldn’t be surprised by Jagged Alliance 1 or 2 being on a Top 100 list. But in general I’d be a little surprised to see that. Those games didn’t exactly sell well. Meanwhile, most arcades probably had some vertical scrolling shooter from Capcom like Gun.Smoke and a 194X game, and tons of places would have some other vertical scrolling shooter that was similar to a 194X game.

 

[Nutmeg]

Nostalgia, familiarity and experience are one thing, analyzing objective qualities of the game are another. The latter should be the reason to include shmups, beat'em'ups etc.

For example, Resident Evil 4 often makes mainstream top N lists. Players should ask "which aspects of this game make it great?". Is it the shooting and encounter design? Is it the QTEs? Is it the sense of progression in upgrading weapons? Is it the "puzzles"? Is it the downtime? Is it the constant weapon switching and ammo hunting? Is it the character designs and animation? Then after the player has made a list of these qualities, while also discarding things they didn't like (e.g. most players would discard the QTEs, and the "puzzles"), they should ask "did any other game do these things better?". They don't have to look far into Capcom's catalogue of games to discover their excellent 90s beat'em'ups that do many of the same things as RE4, but better, or at the very least, as well but differently (as it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison comparing 3D and 2D), and come to the conclustion that they ought to e.g. include Alien vs. Predator (1994) on similar grounds to including Resident Evil 4.

But players don't think. Irrationality is encouraged, reflection which invalidates emotions is discouraged. Hence the state of gaming today.

 

[octavius]

Too much thinking leads to disappointment. Disappointment leads to bitterness. Bitterness leads to butthurt. Butthurt leads to RPG Codex.

 

[Viata]

Can't join this year, I already have my 100 games planned for this year, of which 7 of them I have already finished. 100 games in a year will be good enough given that last year I played like 10 kek

what's your list?

The list is made from games I enjoyed to play many years ago but have not played them for more than a decade.
+ means I have finished it
* means I'm playing it right now

Spoiler

+ Super Metroid
+ Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
+ Mega Man
+ Super Mario Bros.
+ Resident Evil
+ Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse
+ Resident Evil 2
+ Legend of Mana
* Wizardry V
* Dragon Quest 2
+ Ace Combat 2
Ace Combat 3
Alisia Dragoon
Beyond Oasis
Breath of Fire 2
Breath of Fire 3
Chrono Trigger
Contra 4
Contra: Hard Corps
Deja Vu
Diablo
Digimon World 2
Dino Crisis
Dino Crisis 2
+ Donald in Maui Mallard
Dragon Quest 3
Driver 2
Etrian Odyssey
Etrian Odyssey 2
Etrian Odyssey 3
Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy Legends II (aka SaGa 2)
+ Final Fight 2
+ Final Fight 3
Gargoyle's Quest 2
Ghost Trick
+ Golden Axe
Grandia
Harvest Moon (PS1)
Icewind Dale
Icewind Dale 2
Intelligent Qube
+ Jackie Chan Stuntmaster
Knightmare
Knightmare 2
+ Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Lufia 2
+ Mega Man 8
Mega Man Legends
Mega Man Legends 2
Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel
+ Metroid 2
+ Monster World IV
+ Ninja Gaiden
Ninja Gaiden 2
Ninja Gaiden 3
Panzer Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon 2
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Paper Mario
Parasite Eve
Parasite Eve 2
Phantasy Star
Phantasy Star 2
Phantasy Star 3
Phantasy Star 4
Planescape: Torment
Pokemon Crystal
+ Pokemon Red
Radiant Silvergun
+ Resident Evil 3
Sanitarium
Secret of Monkey Island
Shadowgate
Shadowrun (MD)
+ Shadowrun (SNES)
Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Silent Hill
+ Sonic the Hedgehog (Master System)
+ Streets of Rage 2
+ Super Mario World 2
Survival Kids
+ Syphon Filter
Syphon Filter 2
Syphon Filter 3
System Shock
Team Buddies
+ The Great Circus Mystery Starring Mickey and Minnie
+ The Magical Quest 3 Starring Mickey and Donald
+ Time Crisis
Tomba!
Tomba! 2
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
+ Twinkle Tale
Ultima IV
Virtua Cop
Virtua Cop 2

Most of those games I last played before even knowing English(the ps1 and saturn games, for example), so it will be interesting to replay them while being able to understand them.

 

[Nutmeg]

Good list, hope you get through much of it.

Some criticism: For a list so focused on the PS1 and Saturn you're missing a lot of the cult classics (where is Bulk Slash? Taromaru? Where is Silent Bomber? Omega Boost?), or genre greats (there are at least a dozen beat'em'ups that are more worth your time than Golden Axe 1, including its sequel Revenge of the Death Adder), while also including a lot of completionist filler (every Syphon Filter? Every Phantasy Star?) and mainstream hits. You also seem to have a bias for lengthy games with lots of filler content, rather than more condensed experiences. Good way to burn out. Finally I can understand the lack of fighting games because maybe you want to focus on single player, but where are the TBS games and SRPGs? Only one shmup too (Twinkle Tale, nice choice, but if you include Twinkle Tale you have to include Nazo no Kuro Manto and Elemental Master at the least). No arcade games (ok fair, maybe you limited your list to a few systems) but where are the arcade ports? These were a huge part of the 4th and 5th generation of console gaming.

 

[Viata]

It's a list of games that I have played many years ago, which is why it doesn't include games like Bulk Slash, Taromaru, Silent Bomber and Omega Boost, they are in fact games I have never played. As for other games that may be missing, there are two possible reasons: I have played them recently or I have never played them. Both cases are obvious reason why I didn't include those games. And because of this, you can see why I have included mainstream hits, after all, these were the games selling back when I was a kid/teenager.
As for the lack of shmup, it's a genre I always play so it was in fact very hard to find an old one I have not played for a long time. And finally, my knowledge for TBS and SRPGs is very limited and many of them I have only played recently (like famicom wars series).

 

[Nutmeg]

Ah I see it's more like an unfinished business list.

 

[alenak]

I haven't finished most of the classic CRPG's and I'm working on cleaning that part of my gaming list little by little. If this is the thread where people who revisit old games or are playing them for the first time I'm definitely down to join the fun. I've got Fallout NV and SW:KOTOR lined up for later this year. Willing to substitute them for something else if we do something like a big game group codex club thing.

I'm replaying KotOR now and, for me, it doesn't hold up at all. The dialogue is a caricature of bland good/bad guy choices. The narrative is mediocre and definitely hurt in its presentation by the dialogue. The adapted DnD mechanics carry all the classic issues that come with translating the system to cRPGs. The combat has very little tactical (and strategical, for that matter) depth to it.

It's probably the most severe case of these issue from among all the big names, but a lot of these criticisms apply to most older cRPGs. Some of them hold up in terms of narrative; dialogue and choices aren't always as poor as KotOR either; but pretty much all of them are miles behind in terms of mechanics and combat depth. And the pacing is just as bad as it is in something like PoE.

Original Sin 2 and the PoE games have their issues, but there aren't more than 10 games on the top100 list that clears them.

 

[Nutmeg]

Inspired by brother Viata, I've decided to plan out my own year in gaming. This years theme is turn based strategy and actual arcade gaming, no ports, no arcade format console games.

Turn based strategy:

• Order of Battle -- Started playing it last year. Passed the test. Will complete at least two campaigns this year.
• Unity of Command 2 -- Feels like it gives the player a few superfluous strategic options, but it also passed the test. Likewise plan to complete at least a couple of campaigns.
• People's General -- An older Western Daisenryaku clone, much loved in the strategy sub-forum so I have to play it for reference.
• Scorched Earth -- Likewise, but a more recently in-vogue community favorite.

Japanese turn based strategy:

• Valkyria Chronicles -- Unfinished business. All A rank clear with the usual no-repeats self restriction.
• Valkyria Chronicles 4 -- The only one I haven't played yet. Will be nice to do a direct comparison with the first after I refreshed my memory.

Shoot 'em ups:

• Hishouzame -- I've put 50+ hours into its canonical sequel Same! Same! Same! but still get my ass kicked by the game as it is one of the hardest shmups ever made. A Hishouzame 1-ALL 1CC seems like a more realistic achievement, as I can already get to stage 4 on 1 credit after just a bit of natural practice.
• Raiden Fighters 2 -- I already got a 1CC with a scoring oriented but otherwise cheap character (Fairy), so this year I want to get a clear with one of the regular ships.
• Raiden Fighters -- The flip side to RF2. Feels more fresh to me since I've already put many hours into its sequel.
• Raiden Fighters Jet -- To push my skills after I get my RF1 and 2 clears. I don't expect to get a 1CC this year.
• Progear -- I avoided this game a long time due to its ghibli-esque art style, which I don't like for reasons I can explain but won't here. The strengh of the gameplay kept drawing me back in (manipulating bullet streams to go over destructible background objects for juicy cancels? *chef's kiss*). On closer inspection, my initial impressions of the art style were wrong too -- it has more in common with e.g. Detana Twinbee.
• Deathsmiles -- Similar story to the above. I love the pseudo score-as-XP HP system and despite initial misgivings, the D&D stage and monster designs. I also love shmups with directional shot buttons since playing Elemental Master, the game this game is a stealth spiritual sequel to. I most definitely have a shot at the 1CC this year as all I have to do is learn the (very lengthy) final stage.
• Ketsui -- Another game where I couldn't get beyond its offensively ugly, yaoi-esque character designs bookending what is at best 6/10 backgrounds and sprites, but the strength of its play just kept hearkening me back.
• Ibara -- Replacing Armed Police Batrider as my goto YGW resource'em'up this year because it seems to be a much more focused experience.

Run 'n' guns:

• Sunset Riders -- Early 90s Konami dials up the pace on the door-oriented run 'n' gun action genre to Contra 3 levels of carnage. Absolutely delightful from the few credits I've sunk into it.
• Mystic Warriors -- A refinement on the above.
• Metal Slug X -- Unfinished business. Lets see if I can get a 1CC this year.
• Metal Slug 3 -- Ditto but it's just so easy to get lost in all the alternate paths and secret areas.

Beat 'em ups:

• Knights of the Round -- No grabbing. Pure footsies laid bare by the fact that both the player characters and the vast majority of enemies are armed with weapons whose length corresponds to their attack reach. Blocking for i-frames incentivizes learning enemy AI and attack animations, which is assisted by the animator's and designer's judicious use of telegraphing. Seems to be a master training program for beat 'em 'up foundations.
• Warriors of Fate -- In many ways seems to be a refinement of the above, and a favorite amongst many seasoned beat 'em up veterans.