Callvote auto retardoing Anhaira topics

Shannow · Mar 27, 2008

Calis said:
WhiskeyWolf said:

And your point is?

Click to expand...

My point is that, in my mind, the wannabe-edgy adopt-the-hivemind-style-and-opinion posts that this forum has been getting over the past two years or so (yes, this dates back far beyond OctoberGate) have been far more damaging to its quality than anything Andhaira could do or has done, and I view the responses many of his threads have been getting as symptomatic of this. Especially since as a rule they fail to provide even a hint as to why people think his threads are dumb, instead focusing on image spam and memes straight from the hivemind's metaphorical asshole.

So. What exactly is people's problem with this guy? I get it, it tickles your annoyance-bone when someone showing very little in the way of abstract reasoning skills jumps onto a forum and starts bringing up stuff that's been discussed before, but here's the thing - many of the current regulars haven't actually discussed those topics. Sure, Andhaira could at the very least provide a tie-in, some opinion of his own to get a new discussion started rather than posting "IWD vs BG - thoughts?", but really, is the stuff he posts really *that* mind-wreckingly annoying to you?

It started with a few posts per day that varied between boring, discussed 100 times before and actually quite interesting. I'm not gonna check but in the beginning it also posted with some quality, iirc. I seldomly agreed with its views but so what.
That changed to perceived hundrets of posts per day that varied between boring, discussed 1000 times before and actually quite retarded. No quality from its side anymore either. I stopped reading the stuff quite a while ago so it might have degenerated even more.
I started bombing its threads because it got on my nerves, I perceived it as a troll and whenever somebody made a thread like this he was flamed and told to burn the troll from the codex like in the good ol' times. Then I realised that it just was neither my style nor worth the hassle and stopped reading its threads and posts. Seems like others got the same idea and are now bombing its threads.
When I'm in the same room with a man who farts, I'll try to ignore it. When that man suffers from utter flatulence and goes out of his way to fart into my face that can be a little aggravating.
I won't whine that the ignore button would be a good gas mask. And I certainly won't flame anybody if it doesn't come back. It would just be useful to reduce its image spam in threads that I actually want to read.

@Jasede: Not having a reason, not giving a reason and not needing a reason are three different things. Wer nicht fragt, bleibt dumm

MisterStone · Mar 27, 2008

1) I don't see what the big objection to Andhaira is. Even if he starts a lot of inane topics, a lot of posts get a decent discussion going for a bit. If anything, it is the shitheads that spam his posts who are worse. And yes, that is worse than what he does, because the topics could indeed otherwise turn into intelligent or interesting discussions if the smarmy fucktards would just stay away. Just look at the "golden axe" post in gen. gaming. Some of us tried to have real discussion there, while other fuckheads decided to post random flamebait in there because "Andhaira sucks, lol". It might have been a semi-decent topic worth a couple dozen replies if it hadn't been crashed and otherwise ruined by a couple of dumbasses. Essentially, Andhaira's topics are worthy, even if his posting style is neither sophisticated, funny/ironic, or smarmy enough for Codex standards.

2) If people are really concerned about topic spamming, maybe we could just have a limit to how many topics a person can create per certain period of time? I don't think I have ever made more than one topic per forum per day ever, and I imagine that even the more prolific types could get by just fine with this limit.

Shannow · Mar 27, 2008

Calis said:
Fair enough. The prevailing opinion seems to be, though, that this behaviour is an order of magnitude worse than the norm of this forum. That is something I dispute.

Just out of curiosity, who do you think is on a similar level?

MetalCraze · Mar 27, 2008

Dementia Praecox said:
bark bark

well f.e. in one of the recent threads you were shining with the arguments like: "omg hdr on ps2.0 vcards does not exist u r retard!". even when there was a proof.
also if you can consider being in a clan with a clan hierarchy and having servers without stupid grinder but rather servers with organized clanwars - larping, and even retarded larping - then one word is enough to describe you too. arguing is over.

Dementia Praecox · Mar 27, 2008

Locue said:
Demented Praecock said:

@Louce:

Click to expand...

MotherFUCKER!

I want to change my name. Which admin is the easiest to seduce?

Haha, it was a typo. I'm truly sorry, it was seriously not on purpose! :D

Wolfenstein1942 said:
Then again, even if there are several posters that make topics with the same quality as Andharia's, none of them manage to make nearly as many threads as him.

That's would've been a good point if it hadn't been for our brave mods and admins retardoing like there's no tomorrow. As long as they're not complaining (and they don't, mind you, in fact they're doing quite the opposite), this is pretty much moot.

Shannow said:
Then I realised that it just was neither my style nor worth the hassle and stopped reading its threads and posts. Seems like others got the same idea and are now bombing its threads.

Well, the biggest problem as I see it, is that all those others are bombing his threads uncritically and their bombing is lacking at best. The embarrassing to funny ratio isn't exactly in the funny's favor. Since you've stopped reading his threads that might have escaped you.

Also: Brekkek Kekkek Kekkek Kekkek!

PedoWolf said:
A quick summary:

You're a retard.

Click to expand...

Make that a pedo-retard, and the cigar is yours.

skyway said:
well f.e. in one of the recent threads you were shining with the arguments like: "omg hdr on ps2.0 vcards does not exist u r retard!". even when there was a proof.

Sheesh, at least try to make an effort on keeping your fact' straight. Especially when you're actually close to having a point. If you re-read that thread, you'll see that I never wrote anything remotely like that. In fact, I specifically stated that I've never wrote that in that thread as well. What I did write was that GeForce 2 GTS didn't have ps 1.0, which was wrong. That's what I get for not double checking my memory. Now, even if you've pointed that out, that still wouldn't have been an example of me not arguing (i.e. not coming with argumentative reply), but rather an example of me being completely wrong and made a bit of a fool of myself. Arguing based on false assumptions != not arguing, though.

skyway said:
also if you can consider being in a clan with a clan hierarchy and having servers without stupid grinder but rather servers with organized clanwars - larping, and even retarded larping

Hey, larping is larping, what can I say. You even implied yourself that you were larping, no use trying to backtrack now. Feel free to explain in detail how you managed to make the action game Jedi Knight II into "RPG-heavan" without larping though. I expect an interesting read.

skyway said:
- then one word is enough to describe you too. arguing is over. period. game over.

Fixed.

Edit:
You write f.e. Was that in the meaning "for example" or "for eksempel"? You don't happen to be norwegian by any chance?

MetalCraze · Mar 28, 2008

Dementia Praecox said:
Sheesh, at least try to make an effort on keeping your fact' straight...

you were quoting my post where I was giving a link to a hdr article on wikipedia. what else could I thought about there?

Hey, larping is larping, what can I say. You even implied yourself that you were larping, no use trying to backtrack now. Feel free to explain in detail how you managed to make the action game Jedi Knight II into "RPG-heavan" without larping though. I expect an interesting read.

I said larping because you've started with it and I didn't want to go into a long conversation about what larping is and what it isn't. I said about the difference between larpings also because your meaning of larping is apparently that where gay kids play as a noble jedis saving whatever. in my case it was more like ArmA "larping". where like in ArmA we were assuming the roles of a different unit classes to avoid stupid grinder on the specially modded/designed maps (hell there were even mods that included the air units in JK2). f.e. there was this map with the Jedi Council. and one side (enemy clan of course) was protecting it from the other side and thanks to the design of it it was possible to use some tactics there. of course it was nowhere near ArmA but you got the point (but it was fun having such meaningful multiplayer gaming in star wars universe. from actual "roleplaying" there was stuff like actually being as a part of the clan, acknowledging commanders and a little bit acting like a light side/dark side player but nothing retarded and over the top etc - the most gay larping that was there is probably noding your head before the duel). and besides - such "larping" was later the reason why Ravensoft included the UT-like assault multiplayer mode in Jedi Knight 3: Jedi Academy. Jedi Academy sucked balls though, so only retarded grinding kids played it.

Andyman Messiah · Mar 28, 2008

Dementia Praecox said:
Locue said:

Demented Praecock said:

@Louce:

Click to expand...

MotherFUCKER!

I want to change my name. Which admin is the easiest to seduce?

Click to expand...

Haha, it was a typo. I'm truly sorry, it was seriously not on purpose! :D

Sure it wasn't. :wink:

kris · Mar 28, 2008

Shannow said:
When I'm in the same room with a man who farts, I'll try to ignore it. When that man suffers from utter flatulence and goes out of his way to fart into my face that can be a little aggravating.

They day somenoe is able to fart on me over the Internet is the day I will care about a poster I just don't read.

The reactions in this thread seems to imply many here really go out of their way to be able to smell those farts. for what purpose more than having something to complain about. This be the classic give attention to the troll situation.

Ivy Mike · Mar 28, 2008

kris said:
Shannow said:

When I'm in the same room with a man who farts, I'll try to ignore it. When that man suffers from utter flatulence and goes out of his way to fart into my face that can be a little aggravating.

Click to expand...

They day somenoe is able to fart on me over the Internet is the day I will care about a poster I just don't read.

The reactions in this thread seems to imply many here really go out of their way to be able to smell those farts. for what purpose more than having something to complain about. This be the classic give attention to the troll situation.

Classic!

As annyoing as any post without some form of reasonable and choerent thought is, Andihara has gotten some interesting discussion going that's all been done before, much like every other discussion on this site since time immemorial. I'll tell you what, if a mongrel such as what kingcomrade used to be gets to be a moderator of this site, anything is possible. I say we praise Andihara with our collective low-brow minds for all the fun we're getting out of him.

Shannow · Mar 28, 2008

kris said:
They day somenoe is able to fart on me over the Internet is the day I will care about a poster I just don't read.

The reactions in this thread seems to imply many here really go out of their way to be able to smell those farts. for what purpose more than having something to complain about. This be the classic give attention to the troll situation.

Well, I'm not able to evade every post it makes. Simply because they are often one liners and I read them before I realise what made them. And that gif it constantly spams in threads hurts my eyes. So evading the stink isn't completely possible while continuing to read the codex.
I can live with that, but the ignore button would make it easier *shrug*

Dementia Praecox · Mar 28, 2008

skyway said:
you were quoting my post where I was giving a link to a hdr article on wikipedia.

So it was based on an assumption. Thankyouverymuch.

I said larping because you've started with it and I didn't want to go into a long conversation about what larping is and what it isn't.

Sure you did. :roll:

I obviously mean larping the way the term is frequently used on the codex, and with your somewhat spammish post count of almost 2000 you'd know that. You said larping because that's exactly what you were doing. You then remembered that the codex definition isn't exactly textbook, and now you're trying to backtrack.

I said about the difference between larpings also because your meaning of larping is apparently that where gay kids play as a noble jedis saving whatever.

No, my definition is the same as yours. It's just that I'm of the opinion that this kind of larping, or "larping" as you put it, is equally retarded as the fat kids running around yelling lightning bolt, lightning bolt. You're trying to run some kind of Trekker vs.Trekkie argument here, and that never works with someone who insta-retardo anything with warp drives and rifts in the time-space continuum.

in my case it was more like ArmA "larping".

In any case it was larping.

here like in ArmA we were assuming the roles of a different unit classes to avoid stupid grinder on the specially modded/designed maps (hell there were even mods that included the air units in JK2). f.e. there was this map with the Jedi Council.

Still curious about where you're from.

of course it was nowhere near ArmA but you got the point (but it was fun having such meaningful multiplayer gaming in star wars universe. from actual "roleplaying" there was stuff like actually being as a part of the clan, acknowledging commanders and a little bit acting like a light side/dark side player but nothing retarded and over the top etc - the most gay larping that was there is probably noding your head before the duel).

You're right. This doesn't seem like retarded larping at all.

and besides - such "larping" was later the reason why Ravensoft included the UT-like assault multiplayer mode in Jedi Knight 3: Jedi Academy. Jedi Academy sucked balls though, so only retarded grinding kids played it.

What's that got to do with anything? And what sucked so much about Jedi Academy? I was of the impression that it was just more of the same, cept with more stuff to do?

kris said:
They day somenoe is able to fart on me over the Internet is the day I will care about a poster I just don't read.

Damn, that's some epic sig-material right there. :lol:

Shannow said:
I can live with that, but the ignore button would make it easier *shrug*

Not all that impressed by your won't-whine-about-the-ignore-button efforts there, Shannow.

Shannow · Mar 28, 2008

Dementia Praecox said:
Shannow said:

I can live with that, but the ignore button would make it easier *shrug*

Click to expand...

Not all that impressed by your won't-whine-about-the-ignore-button efforts there, Shannow.

+1

Edward_R_Murrow · Mar 30, 2008

Dementia Praecox said:
Over half his threads are fine.

DarkUnderlord · Mar 30, 2008

Edward_R_Murrow said:
Why no admin intervention? Can anyone seriously apply some value to him?

Volourn once did the same thing.

Volourn eventually gave up.

Volourn still here.

Volourn apparently now valued and key member of the Codex.

KingComrade does the same thing from time to time.

KingComrade made Moderator.

KingComrade still here.

KingComrade apparently now valued and key member of the Codex.

Now think about what you're asking. Do you really want us to start banning people for (according to your own list):

Having discussions about things which have been discussed by a handful of older members in the past.
Asking questions about what's better out of a given number of choices.
Talking about diplomacy in CRPGs.
Asking questions in general.

We'd have a very short member list if we did that.

Walks with the Snails said:
You know, this is what I love about the Codex. Most people ban the trolls. Here we give them enough rope to hang themselves with and then poke them with sticks.

Besides, from time to time, Abdhaira does know what he's talking about.

All we have now is simply a re-action to Andhaira's threads which now Andhaira is himself reacting to (He appears to mostly be going through extinction behaviour as his threads have degenerated since people stopped taking them seriously). He knows his threads will end up in Retardo Land and like Volourn, he's asking to be banned. Funnily enough this "reaction" was mostly started by larpingdude (himself an alt) and KingComrade. Two people known for doing pretty much the same thing. IE: Mostly posting things which have very little salvageable value.

Some interesting stats:

Threads started by this person in Retardo Land

Anonymous: 138 threads
Volourn: 116 threads
Andhaira: 87 threads
Nick the Imperial: 53 threads
Spacemoose: 42 threads
larpingdude14: 39 threads
kingcomrade: 34 threads
aweigh: 32 threads
kodiak bear: 24 threads
jockstrap: 20 threads
degausser: 18 threads
aphatmc~: 18 threads
Zappa: 16 threads
The Walkin' Dude: 15 threads
Jasede: 12 threads
dagorkan: 11 threads
POOPERSCOOPER: 11 threads
Lumpy: 10 threads
whitemithrandir: 10 threads
Higher Game: 9 threads
fbi7: 8 threads
sick_boy: 8 threads
JoeDirt: 7 threads
eldestgoat: 7 threads
sheek: 7 threads
caveyboy: 7 threads
infantrymen: 7 threads
stalin_brando: 6 threads
Cassidy: 6 threads
badacarina: 6 threads
ixg: 6 threads
leggera2: 6 threads
ESF assasin: 5 threads
Hai2UGoatseTubgirl: 5 threads
serdrake: 5 threads
frantic defenestration: 5 threads
Naked_Lunch: 5 threads
Assnuggets: 5 threads
rsetpro: 4 threads
Matt7895: 4 threads
Jaime Lannister: 4 threads
BloodyJellySubmarine: 4 threads
Nicolai: 4 threads
ViolentOpposition: 4 threads
LlamaGod: 4 threads
peter07: 4 threads
tiger direct: 3 threads
nicoleveve: 3 threads
Sol Invictus: 3 threads
bigben23: 3 threads
BeoBoter: 3 threads
The Cat Commando: 3 threads
ladybi89: 3 threads
hack: 3 threads
DarkSign: 3 threads
leggera1: 3 threads
S4ur0n27: 3 threads
Nerve Gas: 3 threads
happygames123: 3 threads
Fresh: 3 threads
Cthulhugoat: 3 threads
Da Wise Masta: 3 threads
cff14: 3 threads
bryce77: 3 threads
mmnarumair: 3 threads
Major_Blackhart: 3 threads
OccupatedVoid: 3 threads
Le Twin de Susaine: 2 threads
teplo: 2 threads
crusher310: 2 threads
JarlFrank: 2 threads
Zemfik: 2 threads
RJ2757: 2 threads
cff4: 2 threads
Jim Kata: 2 threads
Master Thief: 2 threads
Mantiis: 2 threads
Lestat: 2 threads
Archaeon: 2 threads
GayOnan: 2 threads
PaulodeTarso: 2 threads
denizsi: 2 threads
deuxhero: 2 threads
Julio: 2 threads
EtCheveuxUn: 2 threads
zzasgai99123198: 2 threads
DarkUnderlord: 2 threads
DraQ: 2 threads
POMPA_YA: 2 threads
Susan's twin: 2 threads
Zàðàáîòîê: 2 threads
Jedi_Learner: 2 threads
Doomsday: 2 threads
Hory: 2 threads
TalesfromtheCrypt: 2 threads
Dogsoup: 2 threads
eva99: 2 threads
Ïðåëåñòíèöà: 2 threads
charlly: 2 threads
Bradylama: 2 threads
xedoc gpr: 2 threads
demonboy: 2 threads
cardtrick: 2 threads
beltovspb: 2 threads
vivian: 2 threads
dyh: 2 threads
Kingston: 2 threads
Quigs: 2 threads
exphonesltd: 2 threads
Warlord_peecard: 2 threads
Haskel Dolph: 2 threads
Roqua: 2 threads
tardtastic: 2 threads
The_Nameless_Prick: 2 threads
class01: 2 threads
kiking: 2 threads
Excalibur: 2 threads
Sir_Brennus: 2 threads
Tychus Findlay: 2 threads
promo2006: 2 threads
bapufish: 2 threads
shahzadmasih: 1 threads
kalismus: 1 threads
Bloodeyes: 1 threads
Nael: 1 threads
Warden: 1 threads
elander_: 1 threads
Tchan: 1 threads
Dementia Praecox: 1 threads
Morbus: 1 threads
Ambear: 1 threads
der: 1 threads
ypfbotnetwork: 1 threads
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POOPERSKOOPER: 1 threads
FreakofNature: 1 threads
newgamer: 1 threads
dilanpat: 1 threads
ftssjk: 1 threads
Tree138: 1 threads
Frau Bishop: 1 threads
Castanova: 1 threads
cephalexin: 1 threads
dkdon1684: 1 threads
B0GGod: 1 threads
Drunken Irishman: 1 threads
gangster-game: 1 threads
fortumiya: 1 threads
Riso: 1 threads
Old Scratch: 1 threads
catDUDE: 1 threads
Chinese Jetpilot: 1 threads
Lonely Vazdru: 1 threads
Admiral jimbob: 1 threads
vidcrazy: 1 threads
AlexMrly: 1 threads
Helton: 1 threads
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alexhen22: 1 threads
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Keldorn: 1 threads
Dick Johnson: 1 threads
AirBreather: 1 threads
ron3927nc: 1 threads

Total Topics: 1,213

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kingcomrade: 729 posts
Jasede: 423 posts
Spacemoose: 404 posts
Admiral jimbob: 300 posts
The Walkin' Dude: 248 posts
Naked_Lunch: 236 posts
Fez: 231 posts
Vault Dweller: 226 posts
Andhaira: 225 posts
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sheek: 182 posts
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Lord Of The Penii: 1 posts
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Krafter: 1 posts
FreeroSe: 1 posts
Humanophage: 1 posts
Von Kaiser: 1 posts
mrnobodie: 1 posts
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evil avatar: 1 posts
DarkUnderlard: 1 posts
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cephalexin: 1 posts
tanguto: 1 posts
Szioul: 1 posts
maverick: 1 posts
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Otingocni: 1 posts
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Ghost At The Feast: 1 posts
Watermark: 1 posts
The Hedonist: 1 posts
baker2k6: 1 posts
Apar: 1 posts
dkdon1684: 1 posts
asper: 1 posts
ring0_event: 1 posts
tommyjim11: 1 posts
Blue: 1 posts
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Carbohydrated: 1 posts
Firewater Burns: 1 posts
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Old Scratch: 1 posts
Kukainis: 1 posts
tozth: 1 posts
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dirk: 1 posts
kathode: 1 posts
vidcrazy: 1 posts
Lomer: 1 posts
barahiny: 1 posts
fallout ranger mkII: 1 posts
Pwn*Star: 1 posts
der: 1 posts
Zli: 1 posts

Total Posts: 16,904

DefJam101 · Mar 30, 2008

I must admit it took me a while to realize that everyone here is too much of a bitter husk of a human being to try and resurrect RPGs, and opts to simply post random irrelevant humour and flames rather than actually argue about things. The only time this actually happens is when a thread has nothing to do with RPGs.

At first I was upset, but then I realized that this is an internet forum, and everything was working as expected. Now, I don't really mind that much.... It's just another 4chan-junior.

-except this one actually helps me find good games.

If you're gonna ban Andhaira you should ban Volourn first, he makes the Codex look less 'mature' than Andhaira does. In other words, don't ban him if you don't really want the Codex to be an intelligent site.

Disclaimer: I still like the Codex, btw.

Jason · Mar 30, 2008

We'd have a very short member list if we did that.

Other members don't start several new annoying threads a day, day in day out.

If you're so against banning the twat, then get on that phpBB upgrade so we can have our non-thread-starting Short Bus Kidz group.

spacemoose · Mar 30, 2008

DarkUnderlord said:
Posts in Retardo Land

kingcomrade: 729 posts

Jasede: 423 posts

Spacemoose: 404 posts

top three BOOYAKASHA

Admiral Rimjob POOBUM · Mar 30, 2008

What the hell why do I have so many retardo land posts

spacemoose · Mar 30, 2008

cause you're a true blue, jimbob

DarkUnderlord · Mar 30, 2008

baby arm said:
We'd have a very short member list if we did that.

Click to expand...

Other members don't start several new annoying threads a day, day in day out.

If you're so against banning the twat, then get on that phpBB upgrade so we can have our non-thread-starting Short Bus Kidz group.

I'm not saying Andhaira shouldn't be banned, I'm just pointing out that all of Edward_R_Murrow's reasons aren't good reasons to ban anyone. That and Volourn still has more topics in Retardo Land than he does. And Volourn was trying really, really hard to get banned by posting several new annoying threads a day, day in day out.

It'd be easy enough to add a bit of code in posting.php to prevent Andhaira posting new topics anyway. Though that leads us down the path of DAC. And really, if you want him banned, make a poll about it in the Staff Forum and let the Caliphate rule. Calis' thread in there is only about that dancing picture.

Admiral jimbob said:
What the hell why do I have so many retardo land posts

You post in shit threads. Even VD has more actual posts in Retardo Land than Andhaira, though I discount those statistics as most threads end up there after a few pages and if you're around the forums a lot, posting in most threads, you will end up with a high number of posts in Retardo Land by default - though the top 3 are telling, as Spacemoose pointed out.

Andhaira · Mar 30, 2008

Top 10 in both lists! :D

Anyhow, just out of curiousity whose alt is larpingdude?

Brother None · Mar 30, 2008

DarkUnderlord said:
I'm not saying Andhaira shouldn't be banned, I'm just pointing out that all of Edward_R_Murrow's reasons aren't good reasons to ban anyone

Well perhaps the way he stated it, but personally, I've always disliked moderating purely by the rules without letting community factors enter into it. The simple question for Andharia would be: is the Codex better off with him or without him?

I think that's easily answered. But if you don't, then fine, eh?

I'm also not that sure of the added value of Volo (or KC, though I don't read KC posts), since his posts are mostly trollish one-line lulzers. Though I suppose he provides a critical voice.

DarkUnderlord said:
Brother None: 21 posts

Probably mostly from the "NMA hates the Codex" thread.

Now that was a good thread.

Shagnak · Mar 30, 2008

Now, for a person that has an unusually high quota of "drunk in charge of a keyboard" posts, I'm pretty fucking disappointed I don't appear in the list of retardoed thread starters. My brain is certain that there is a thread here somewhere that is just a dump of the website of my favourite brewery. Did someone *gasp* delete it? Or did I post that at DaC or somewhere else...

And only 21st on the list of retardoed posts? Gah.

(Only 21? Weak.)

Andhaira · Mar 30, 2008

I would be happy to give you some pointers shaggy. Also, dancing andhaira pic is your firend.

DarkUnderlord · Mar 30, 2008

Brother None said:
Well perhaps the way he stated it, but personally, I've always disliked moderating purely by the rules without letting community factors enter into it. The simple question for Andharia would be: is the Codex better off with him or without him?

There are a lot of people who I feel don't necessarily "add to the Codex". I don't think enforcing a draconian Nazi-style "purge the unworthy" regime would help it though. It's an internet forum. People come and go. Some will stick around and end up posting some worthwhile things, while others will eventually leave. At the moment though, Andhaira is the in-thing to bitch about. Also, I have truly epic amounts of patience coupled with an awesome ability to simply wear others down given time.

Callvote auto retardoing Anhaira topics

Callvote auto retardoing for Andhaira

vote yes

vote no

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