Editorial Charles Miles on Wizardry 8 Difficulty

[Helton]

You never read the Fallout manual? It sets the tone and atmosphere and shit. I don't think I'd have enjoyed them half as much without reading the manual first.

 

[dagorkan]

My box didn't come with one

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Don't tell me you never got the Arcanum Manual either? The dissertation on the races of Arcanum was amazing, as was several of the recipes in the back. Plus, the victorian studies on magic and technology and how one effects the other (natural vs supernatural selection and the like) was truly eye opening.

 

[Murk]

I agree with Blackhard, the Arcanum manual had a great deal of lore and writing that was just plain fun to read, same can definitely be said about the Diablo manuals.

 

[Helton]

Can't you get Arcanum manual online? Go-get-er, nigger.

 

[dagorkan]

Don't tell me you never got the Arcanum Manual either? The dissertation on the races of Arcanum was amazing, as was several of the recipes in the back. Plus, the victorian studies on magic and technology and how one effects the other (natural vs supernatural selection and the like) was truly eye opening.

The CD just had a pdf... reading pdfs reminds me too much of work

That's the disadvantage of getting the budget games.

I did read some of it for flavor (I agree pretty good) though I didn't read any rules except on experience because I didn't understand the system for that. Everything else is in tool tips or obvious.

There was a manual with the Gold Box games but it was mainly for quest clues, puzzles, dialog etc. Arkania games I got on a shareware disc so never had a manual either. Return to Krondor is straight forward. You don't need a manual for Morrowind... All the other RPGs I've played have been abandonware or budget release or demos.

 

[Murk]

Can't you get Arcanum manual online? Go-get-er, nigger.

http://www.replacementdocs.com/download.php?view.298

 

[dagorkan]

Great site to bookmark, only docs they don't have are Beth ones because Todd is too much of a tard.

 

[FrancoTAU]

I just realized that I never read the Fallout manual. I got one of the value pack versions a couple years after it originally came out and it didn't have one. I guess there was a pdf on the CD.

 

[DraQ]

Blah. First, the Wiz8 is easy enough, provided you've read the manual and/or have IQ greater than 70.
Second, no number of tutorials would help with Arnika road. It was hard because the game constantly threw relatively tough groups of baddies at the party with little to no opportunities to rest in between battles - fairly infuriating "one step forward, two steps back" gameplay was the result here, which could easily deter many players, especially those with magic-heavy parties. Remaking this fairly monotonous level with more places of interest doubling as potential hiding spots would remove the problem entirely.

Edit:
It'd also help with getting the points about hiding and camping across - shallow crevices on the sides of the road weren't all that helpful especially with the asses of the sleeping/hiding party members noticeably sticking out of them. The point about disposables didn't need much reinforcement IMO - I mean, even your typical oblibians player should notice that free (MP-wise), throwable canned noxious fumes are a good and helpful thing, right?

I still would prefer lack of tutorials. There's a reason that there is a book that comes with games, though that doesn't seem to be how it is anymore.

If a game requires you to read a manual to grasp it, the game sucks. I hate reading books...

In before

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[Mareus]

What are you guys talking about? I didn't even know people comlained about Wizardry 8 being too hard, before I started reading this thread. I managed to pass the road to Arnika without loading with my FIRST playtruough. The only reason why it may seemed hard is because the monastery was most of the times a walk through the park, so when you finnally met some harder enemies, you were surprised. Yet, even here you can prevail without dying. I even made a few mistakes, but still I managed to survive long enough to rest afterwards. I would say the game's difficulty is perfect, althogh there is too much fighting. It is not too easy and it is not a torture like some previous Wizardries. Of course, maybe I found Wiz8 difficulty perfect, because I played Wiz7 before Wiz8 and in Wiz7 the battless were extremely hard. I heard previous Wizardriees were even harder, but for me that would be torture and not playing a game.

 

[thesheeep]

If a game requires you to read a manual to grasp it, the game sucks. I hate reading books...

In before

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You are very resistant to simple logic, aren't you?

 

[KazikluBey]

Could you play Civilization without ever reading the manual?

I was 9 and hardly knew any English when I started playing Civilization 2. Trial and error (and a dictionary now and then) worked fine.

 

[Mareus]

I never used a manual in any game I played so far. Just didn't need one. And civilization was pretty intiutive so there was no need to use a manual, although I figured out some advanced tips after my third or fourth playthrough.

 

[Fez]

I didn't need the manual for any of the Civ games. You can pick it all up pretty quickly. The SMAC manual had some interesting parts worth reading though. I'll often read them eventually if they are worth reading. Most manuals are crap though.

 

[Helton]

How about Dominions 3? Good luck without a manual, yo.

 

[Elwro]

I don't think reading the Wiz8 manual prepared me for the game. It was a nice read, but I guess they should put a "don't put a gadgeteer in your party if you're a n3wb" warning or sth.

edit: also, reading manuals is FUN. Hell, the manual for Eye of the Beholder was more fun than the whole game.

 

[DraQ]

I don't think reading the Wiz8 manual prepared me for the game. It was a nice read, but I guess they should put a "don't put a gadgeteer in your party if you're a n3wb" warning or sth.

Why? My first party had gadgeteer as well (while lacking bard!) and performed adequately.

also, reading manuals is FUN.

Only if they are well written. For example Wiz8 manual was written well enough to avoid getting spoiled even by shitty translation.

 

[Elwro]

I don't think reading the Wiz8 manual prepared me for the game. It was a nice read, but I guess they should put a "don't put a gadgeteer in your party if you're a n3wb" warning or sth.

Why? My first party had gadgeteer as well (while lacking bard!) and performed adequately.

Alright. I suck then. :-(

 

[cutterjohn]

Wow! And I NEVER thought that W8 was all that hard...

He also forgot to mention tactical use of terrain features, helped funnel mobs to your forward facing making mopping them up (if the mob numbers were reasonable) an XP bananza. I don't even remember using consumables all that much, much more relying on priest spells and resting behind the house, and other terrain "protected" areas...

My 1st party had warrior, thief, gadgeteer, mage and priest, plus I think that I used some of the pickuppable NPCs in the city and kept re-hitting the road for more XP as my party had an easy time up the road, but found the mobs in the city a little tough initially.

Manuals: Rarely read them thoroughly and usually dived right into games having no problems early on mostly, and then read them for specific details (if available as even 10y some manuals were crap unlike today where all manuals are token pamphlets) or read the ones like Fallout that were just entertaining in their own right.

 

[uhjghvt]

I never thought it was that hard either. the arnika road got kind of annoying with the infinite hordes of suicidal juggernauts and poppies and bandits but it wasn't very difficult

 

[FrancoTAU]

You're so 1337.

 

[Nael]

Fuck Rapax Castle in it's gaping asshole.

That's all.

You never read the Fallout manual? It sets the tone and atmosphere and shit. I don't think I'd have enjoyed them half as much without reading the manual first.

Have you played any other games other than Fallout?