Chefe Reviews Oblivion

[Dogar]

It is yet another game that claims to achieve great things when really its a horribly limited treadmill simulator.

A comment like this makes it seem that you've actually played it. How exactly do you know that all of the gameplay is a treadmill simulator? The in-game examples that Rew_Klip and others have posted (I'm thinking the Dark Brotherhood quests) indicate that varied gameplay and interesting interactions are at least a possibility in Oblivion.

 

[Bolgard]

A comment like this makes it seem that you've actually played it. How exactly do you know that all of the gameplay is a treadmill simulator? The in-game examples that Rew_Klip and others have posted (I'm thinking the Dark Brotherhood quests) indicate that varied and non-generic gameplay is at least a possibility in Oblivion.

It's not even worth debating someone when they've made up their mind that they're either going to hate it or love it. When someone makes a commitment like that, they'll generally defend it to the death and it's like arguing with a dog. No matter how worked up you get or how eloquent your arguement is, it doesn't matter.

Save your breath and energy.

 

[Rew_Klip]

Expert from the guide:

*Spoilers*




Wonder what happened in Morrowind after you left? You'll hear a good deal about it in Cyrodil. Apart from a report (by Elves) that slavery has been abolished and the Kahjiit and Argonian slaves are freed, it's mostly bad news.

Dranas Llethro and Hillod the Outlaw, who live in the Abandoned Shack in the Imperial City's Waterfront District, both worked on the Raven Rock colony on Solstheim (from the Bloodmoon expansion). Evidently it came to a bad end. "The money ran out," says Llethro. Talk to Nords or Orcs and you'll learn the former are on the warpath- fighting with House Redoran with the help of Orc mercenaries. It's rumored they're trying to run Imperial forces off Solstheim entirely.

Vivec has vanished- perhaps taken by Daedra. And it's rumored that the Nerevarine-the hero of Morrowind- has left the province altogether on a trip to Akavir.

 

[Drain]

It is yet another game that claims to achieve great things when really its a horribly limited treadmill simulator.

A comment like this makes it seem that you've actually played it. How exactly do you know that all of the gameplay is a treadmill simulator? The in-game examples that Rew_Klip and others have posted (I'm thinking the Dark Brotherhood quests) indicate that varied gameplay and interesting interactions are at least a possibility in Oblivion.

Lets see what Todd Howard tells us about it:

If we focus on anything most though, it is the "dungeon hack" experience. That's the meat of the game. I mean, if you look at Arena, the first Elder Scrolls game, it's basically a giant dungeon hack, and it's awesome. So that was our first goal—make the best dungeon romp we can—and everything else is gravy. Good gravy, but still gravy.

 

[Arkay Firestar]

Why did all the fucktarded TES regulars flock here all of a sudden?

God, most are prepubescent and have no knowledge of any games released before Halo.

Jesus I hope the TES forums come back up so they shut the fuck UP

 

[Drain]

One more quote from Todd Howard for teh fun:

I think you can look at the changes we made from Daggerfall to Morrowind and expect a similar jump from Morrowind to Oblivion.

 

[Bolgard]

Why did all the fucktarded TES regulars flock here all of a sudden?

God, most are prepubescent and have no knowledge of any games released before Halo.

Jesus I hope the TES forums come back up so they shut the fuck UP

There does seem to be a bit of an influx recently. I happened upon this place myself about a week ago. Of course, I guess I have a little more buddhist view of it than you do, but eh.

 

[Rew_Klip]

Why did all the fucktarded TES regulars flock here all of a sudden?

God, most are prepubescent and have no knowledge of any games released before Halo.

Jesus I hope the TES forums come back up so they shut the fuck UP

I'm sorry, am I bothering you?

 

[Twinfalls]

We hate Oblivion for different reasons - aka it being a fucking trainwreck of a game.

Who says it's a 'trainwreck of a game'? I don't see any evidence for that. In fact, the evidence points to it being a pretty impressive game in its own right - a bigger and much improved Morrowind.

Its failings are as a continuation of the TES series. To fans of Daggerfall in particular, this game represents the continued failure to build on the foundations laid by that game. Oblivion is a step backward in roleplaying, in choices and decision-making, and in the vast, procedurally designed game-world ideas of that classic of the genre.

 

[Rew_Klip]

We hate Oblivion for different reasons - aka it being a fucking trainwreck of a game.

Who says it's a 'trainwreck of a game'? I don't see any evidence for that. In fact, the evidence points to it being a pretty impressive game in its own right - a bigger and much improved Morrowind.

Its failings are as a continuation of the TES series. To fans of Daggerfall in particular, this game represents the continued failure to build on the foundations laid by that game. Oblivion is a step backward in roleplaying, in choices and decision-making, and in the vast, procedurally designed game-world ideas of that classic of the genre.

You are right on target Twinfalls. But all previous TES titles aside it is still a great game.


My impression of most of the codexers:

Even after the game is released and every game site and mag. gives Oblivion 8-9, they will hide in their codex cave, fingers stuck in their ears hollering at the top of their lungs "Oblivion Sucks! Oblivion still sucks! ZOMG TEH GRAPHICS ARE SUCKS!!!"

 

[Bolgard]

Who says it's a 'trainwreck of a game'? I don't see any evidence for that. In fact, the evidence points to it being a pretty impressive game in its own right - a bigger and much improved Morrowind.

Its failings are as a continuation of the TES series. To fans of Daggerfall in particular, this game represents the continued failure to build on the foundations laid by that game. Oblivion is a step backward in roleplaying, in choices and decision-making, and in the vast, procedurally designed game-world ideas of that classic of the genre.

See, that's a good, well-reasoned opinion. The question I've been dealing with is wondering if there's a way to make an RPG that's like Daggerfall in it's open-endedness and never-ending quests, but have it be good and non-generic. That's the problem - because back in the days of Daggerfall you could slap an algorithm together that generated random quests/dungeons/etc. and it was cutting edge at the TIME - but it was really crap and is crap today.

The problem is that if I had to choose between well-written quests and crafted dungeons that were finite, or limitless generic quests/dungeons, I'd have to go with the former.

If we can hit a point where you can combine random with non-generic, streamlined, and good - to the point where it SEEMS crafted and hand-written, then I think you have your ultimate RPG.

Oblivion definitely isn't a step in that direction, but I think it's going to be quite fun in its own right.

 

[Temoid]

That may be true. But it's hardly an RPG - which is what the developers claim it to be. I would have no problem if they announced Oblivion as a mere action/adventure game.

 

[Rew_Klip]

The game is coming out tomorrow, so there will be plenty of people bragging about getting the game first.

 

[Bolgard]

That may be true. But it's hardly an RPG - which is what the developers claim it to be. I would have no problem if they announced Oblivion as a mere action/adventure game.

You must have a different definition of role-playing than most.

 

[Rew_Klip]

I wonder when Chefe is going to post his review, maybe he is too immersed in the game and forgot all about posting. :D

 

[Temoid]

Indeed. I believe that role playing games are not just about saving the world and slaying dragons.

 

[Bolgard]

I wonder when Chefe is going to post his review, maybe he is too immersed in the game and forgot all about posting. :D

Well, let's be honest, for a game of that scale, any legitimate reviewer would have to spend a good ten hours or so to get an honest feel for the game.

 

[Bolgard]

Indeed. I believe that role playing games are not just about saving the world and slaying dragons.

At least no one can say you aren't specific when you try and make a point.

 

[Rew_Klip]

Well all right guys, I'm retiring for the night cause’ its 1 A.M here. I will be back tomorrow morning first thing and check out Chefe's review. :wink:

 

[Twinfalls]

If we can hit a point where you can combine random with non-generic, streamlined, and good - to the point where it SEEMS crafted and hand-written, then I think you have your ultimate RPG.Oblivion definitely isn't a step in that direction, but I think it's going to be quite fun in its own right.

There have been plenty of discussions on these boards about that. Problem for TES is that, whilst it's under the helm of Todd Howard, you won't be seeing any attempts to return to procedural quest generation. The guy is not interested, or so it would seem. Nor is he interested in expanding on actual role playing - to the contrary, he's all about reducing skills, factions, and choices and consequences.

As for the criticism of Oblivion's graphics at the Codex, it has the same basis as most of the rest of the criticism - it's a natural response to Bethesda's hype.

You see, when Bethesda trumpets about 'Radiant AI', and then eventually reveal a glorified scripting algorithm with little to no emergent gameplay, then we criticise.

When Bethesda touts its graphics like its the Second Coming, and we eventually see a poor, unoptimised engine, featuring laughable animation and unfinished models (horses reiGn supreme), we criticise.

The vitriol here is completely appropriate. For it is in direct proportion to the crass hype of the publicity churned out by Pete and the rest of Team Bethesda.

 

[Bolgard]

I can see where you're coming from, Twinfalls.

See, the hype never really bothered me, mainly because I take what any company says about their game with a healthy dose of salt. I don't even mind the fact that Oblivion is a step *away* from procedurally generated quests - I'm satisfied with that being left to another developer and another game. It'll get there eventually, especially as procedural content generation in games gets more advanced and bigger billing (I'm very curious to see how the release of Spore affects various developer strategies).

However, I still consider Oblivion, as it looks now, to be a healthy role-playing game, and where I get off the boat with some dissenters is with RAI. I never thought it'd be revolutionary, but it's *definitely* an aspect I'm looking forward to, not just for experiencing, but for seriously modifying and tweaking. Half of the fun is having all of this potential for creativity at the fingertips of the modding community.

Believe me, if people were expecting Oblivion to be the second coming as far as RPGs are concerned, and feel betrayed that it didn't live up to either intial hype or their expectations, I can understand how they could feel slighted. Perhaps because I found out about Oblivion relatively late into its development cycle that was a bonus for me - but regardless, I think it's going to be a lot of fun. But sure, obviously, it's a taste issue.

At least your arguements make sense, Twin - and you're actually civil. It's refreshing here

 

[bryce777]

The game is HUGE by the way, and though there are less quests to do, they are much more immersive and fun. In a sense 1 OB quest equals 2-3 Morrowind quests.

Interesting you can say that before even playing them. Heh.

 

[bryce777]

We hate Oblivion for different reasons - aka it being a fucking trainwreck of a game.

Who says it's a 'trainwreck of a game'? I don't see any evidence for that. In fact, the evidence points to it being a pretty impressive game in its own right - a bigger and much improved Morrowind.

Its failings are as a continuation of the TES series. To fans of Daggerfall in particular, this game represents the continued failure to build on the foundations laid by that game. Oblivion is a step backward in roleplaying, in choices and decision-making, and in the vast, procedurally designed game-world ideas of that classic of the genre.

I was laughing so hard my butler had to slap my back and get a fesh oxygen mask!

 

[Bolgard]

The game is HUGE by the way, and though there are less quests to do, they are much more immersive and fun. In a sense 1 OB quest equals 2-3 Morrowind quests.

Interesting you can say that before even playing them. Heh.

I'm assuming he was alluding to information in the strategy guide, but who knows.

 

[bryce777]

We hate Oblivion for different reasons - aka it being a fucking trainwreck of a game.

Who says it's a 'trainwreck of a game'? I don't see any evidence for that. In fact, the evidence points to it being a pretty impressive game in its own right - a bigger and much improved Morrowind.

Its failings are as a continuation of the TES series. To fans of Daggerfall in particular, this game represents the continued failure to build on the foundations laid by that game. Oblivion is a step backward in roleplaying, in choices and decision-making, and in the vast, procedurally designed game-world ideas of that classic of the genre.

You are right on target Twinfalls. But all previous TES titles aside it is still a great game.


My impression of most of the codexers:

Even after the game is released and every game site and mag. gives Oblivion 8-9, they will hide in their codex cave, fingers stuck in their ears hollering at the top of their lungs "Oblivion Sucks! Oblivion still sucks! ZOMG TEH GRAPHICS ARE SUCKS!!!"

Pretty much every game gets an 8-9 these days, and most of them really suck. A lot.

From what we know about the game, it would have no appeal to someone who is expecting something like fallout, ultima, wizardry, or pretty much any good rpg I can think of.