"chicken concentration camps"

[Kortalh]

Once again, you folks seem to be missing the point.

His thesis in that article is to put RPGs to bed because of the way they have ended up.

Are you saying that mainstream RPGs like Mass Effect haven't become shitty and linear?

He uses games that barely touch on RPG mechanics as justification for why RPGs should be put to bed.

That's entirely his point! Modern RPGs lack those mechanics. Do you disagree? Has there been a mainstream RPG that's come out in the last 3-4 years that anyone at the Codex would consider as fully embracing RPG mechanics?

He uses Bioshock and Mass Effect as examples in the context of RPGs that "put out a lot of meat".

That's because, sadly enough, those games are about the closest you can get to an RPG these days in the mainstream market.

He makes a general statement like "a game made in 48hrs can give the same cognitive tug of games made in 48 months" like it is a flaw of the genre and not of the people commissioning these games.

Again, is this not exactly what the Codex has been saying repeatedly ad nauseam for the last decade? That all of the effort goes into the graphics, and the actual roleplaying aspect is an afterthought? Isn't that exactly how a person could describe mainstream RPGs like Bioshock and Mass Effect?

His attempts to "strip down" the RPG genre consist of taking the most clinical and stereotypical attributes in isolation to the point where what he is left with has no possible merit so that he can illustrate his point.

I take it you haven't read a lot of satire. That's kinda how it works.

He then goes on about irrelevant details trying to claim some inherent equivalency between mathematical programs and RPGs, and like it is an idea worth listening to no less.

What he's saying in his "mathematical programs" is that he'd like to see more Choices and Consequences™ in mainstream RPGs, where the decisions you make will make your character, "shift in their relationships with individuals and wider social groups." Isn't that exactly what the Codex has been begging for in RPGs?



I'm not sure whether you folks are hilarious or just pathetic. I mean, if this guy was a Codex regular and had said the same things, you'd be lining up to suck his cock. But I guess since he's an outsider, he's automatically the enemy and an idiot, huh?

 

[Unradscorpion]

I think we need to define what an RPG is to continue this discussion.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I think we need to define what an RPG is to continue this discussion.

 

[Excommunicator]

Once again, you folks seem to be missing the point.

Your responses are missing the point of his inability to communicate. Here let me illustrate so you don't make the same mistake in the future.

His thesis in that article is to put RPGs to bed because of the way they have ended up.

Are you saying that mainstream RPGs like Mass Effect haven't become shitty and linear?

Irrelevant. No matter how shitty RPGs get, I would never condone "putting them to bed". I want them to work twice as hard in the opposite direction. That is, in the direction of actual RPGs. If you agree with his statement then perhaps you should get off the Codex. We actually care about RPGs here, you see.

He uses games that barely touch on RPG mechanics as justification for why RPGs should be put to bed.

That's entirely his point! Modern RPGs lack those mechanics. Do you disagree? Has there been a mainstream RPG that's come out in the last 3-4 years that anyone at the Codex would consider as fully embracing RPG mechanics?

Wrong. He is using it as a justification to get rid of RPGs and that is stupid in more ways than need to described. Seeing shit people create shit games will never suddenly make me think "oh well if they aren't going to make them properly, then how about everyone just stop making them altogether?"

He uses Bioshock and Mass Effect as examples in the context of RPGs that "put out a lot of meat".

That's because, sadly enough, those games are about the closest you can get to an RPG these days in the mainstream market.

Do you think I care? Do you think anyone cares that those are the only games he happens to be exposed to? It's completely irrelevant. What he said was stupid and wrong. End of. He is trying to talk like an authority but doing the argument a complete injustice, just like you are doing for rational thinking.

He makes a general statement like "a game made in 48hrs can give the same cognitive tug of games made in 48 months" like it is a flaw of the genre and not of the people commissioning these games.

Again, is this not exactly what the Codex has been saying repeatedly ad nauseam for the last decade? That all of the effort goes into the graphics, and the actual roleplaying aspect is an afterthought? Isn't that exactly how a person could describe mainstream RPGs like Bioshock and Mass Effect?

There are morons on the Codex too, don't pretend that isn't the case. You know that. His statement has no connection to whatever meaning you are extracting from implication. The statement is inaccurate and actually means nothing. Move on.

His attempts to "strip down" the RPG genre consist of taking the most clinical and stereotypical attributes in isolation to the point where what he is left with has no possible merit so that he can illustrate his point.

I take it you haven't read a lot of satire. That's kinda how it works.

He's a shit writer, skipping between things he means seriously and sarcastically, neither of which are meaningful. If he wanted to make a point, he failed. I don't know why you quoted it, it doesn't support anything you're [failing] to say. Next.

He then goes on about irrelevant details trying to claim some inherent equivalency between mathematical programs and RPGs, and like it is an idea worth listening to no less.

What he's saying in his "mathematical programs" is that he'd like to see more Choices and Consequences™ in mainstream RPGs, where the decisions you make will make your character, "shift in their relationships with individuals and wider social groups." Isn't that exactly what the Codex has been begging for in RPGs?

Nope he's being satirical remember? Fuck, you can't understand anything. Stop talking about the Codex as a collective. If it is a collective, then I am not a part of it whether I agree with them or not, so your questioning is irrelevant. Collective thinking isn't compatible with independent thinking. Your bad arguments are attempts to respond to a person using the preconceptions of a group. Don't.

I'm not sure whether you folks are hilarious or just pathetic. I mean, if this guy was a Codex regular and had said the same things, you'd be lining up to suck his cock. But I guess since he's an outsider, he's automatically the enemy and an idiot, huh?

Same response to anyone. Don't project your ignorance onto other people.

You're trying way too hard to pull my concerns back towards what you extracted from the article, even though you know they are each perfectly valid concerns. If he can't cover those things, his article has no credibility.

I can see you're annoyed that you can't see the nuance of fallacy in his little attempt at an article, but the fact is unless he can write another article that isn't so full of crap, I do not want him as a representative of anything I support.

Go Team Codex.

YYYYEEEAAA-

 

[waywardOne]

sounds exactly like a friend of mine who couldn't get into BG and instead recommended Black and White to me.

he overdosed on heroin a few years back.

there's a lesson here.

 

[Kortalh]

Wrong. He is using it as a justification to get rid of RPGs and that is stupid in more ways than need to described. Seeing shit people create shit games will never suddenly make me think "oh well if they aren't going to make them properly, then how about everyone just stop making them altogether?"

What part of "blockbuster RPGs in the tradition of Bioshock and Mass Effect" is so confusing for you? The author isn't saying that all RPGs ever are stupid and shouldn't be made. He's saying that specifically those RPGs that are "in the tradition of Bioshock and Mass Effect" need to be put to bed.

If this tiny semantic triviality is what's got you so upset, then... well, I suppose they made this emoticon just for you:

Again, is this not exactly what the Codex has been saying repeatedly ad nauseam for the last decade? That all of the effort goes into the graphics, and the actual roleplaying aspect is an afterthought? Isn't that exactly how a person could describe mainstream RPGs like Bioshock and Mass Effect?

His statement has no connection to whatever meaning you are extracting from implication. The statement is inaccurate and actually means nothing. Move on.

The statement is pretty clear: "a game made in 48hrs can give the same cognitive tug of games made in 48 months." In other words, big-budget games that take 48 months to make (i.e. Mass Effect) have no more intellectual depth than a no-budget game made in 48 hours (i.e. Linear RPG). No extraction necessary. If the statement means nothing to you, then I might suggest taking English courses at your local community college.

He's a shit writer, skipping between things he means seriously and sarcastically

Nope he's being satirical remember?

Again, that's how satire works. When Johnathan Swift wrote his Modest Proposal, he did plenty of "skipping between things he means seriously and sarcastically". Same goes for The Onion, Stephen Colbert, and anyone else who writes or has ever written satire.

Same response to anyone. Don't project your ignorance onto other people.

Oooh. I'm rubber, you're glue. Herp derp.

I can see you're annoyed that you can't see the nuance of fallacy

I can see you're annoyed that you don't know the meaning of the word 'nuance'.

 

[Excommunicator]

I have made my observations, and I won't repeat them for the sake of your complaining. Anyone intelligent here can understand his lack of substance in that post.


I guess you must have won the discussion hey Kortalh since I am not going to respond to your inane responses. LOLOL GJ MAN

 

[Azrael the cat]

sounds exactly like a friend of mine who couldn't get into BG and instead recommended Black and White to me.

he overdosed on heroin a few years back.

there's a lesson here.

Heroin is better than crpgs? Python's the Meaning of Life isn't actually that great on modern viewing, aside from the opening short film and the autumn leaves sketch near the end?

 

[jiduthie]

oh boy oh golly i hope my thread has requests for plane tickets in it.

 

[Excommunicator]

I am not sure he has the level of literacy needed to correctly read the ticket though, jiduthie.

I appreciate the offer though. Perhaps in a few years when he finishes preschool.