Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Average Manatee]

It's dead Chris. How will you add a speech check when there is no speech skill?

 

[Shammy]

Let's get back to KOTOR2 though, what an astonishing game that was in terms of writing, and the companions other than Kreia don't get praised enough. NWN2 has a few weak and uninteresting companions but I can only think of one in KOTOR2 - Mical. Obsidian probably - correctly - assumed most people would go for a male PC and put more time into Brianna instead.

I really enjoyed the companions in Kotor2, and the fact that most of them didn't really get along added so much to the crew's dynamic. Granted it did lack in a few areas, noticeably due to cut content, but the cast of companions was far better than the first.

Except Mical, I agree. He just felt off for some reason, never could put my finger on it.

 

[Azarkon]

The problem here being that art/creativity isn't about normality (you can't build art on normality). That's why being cliche is bad (a cliche is a form of normality). It's either about new things OR recontextualising already existing things (the Force in KotOR2). Writing cliche stuff isn't showing versatility, it's just a bad day :p

I think being able to write any character competently, even stock characters, is a skill. Just because a character is mundane, does not make portraying said character easy. In fact, there are plenty of writers out there who have no issues writing eloquent theatrical speeches, but have all sorts of problems trying to portray how your average teenager talks. Both are, in fact, useful tools to have. That Chris is able to go from writing Kreia to writing Grobnar is a plus, in my opinion, not just a lapse. Not every game/character calls for profound psychological/thematic explorations, and I think we already know he's able to create such characters, ie PST, Kreia, Gann, Kaelyn, Grieving Mother, Durance, etc.

In fact, what I find ridiculously impressive is just how prolific he's been across games. I've long thought that other writers were responsible for the companions writing in NWN 2 OC, for example, but this just adds a load of new work to what he's done, regardless of results. On top of what we already know about Chris's contributions in KOTOR 2, I think it just shows how instrumental he was to the first few Obsidian games.

 

[Endemic]

Except Mical, I agree. He just felt off for some reason, never could put my finger on it.

Mical's problem was being a Jedi fanboy, but even then he saw the problems with the current Jedi order and their lack of taking responsibility.

If you find him too annoying, there's always this mod: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf7_PAw48_o

 

[Lacrymas]

I think being able to write any character competently, even stock characters, is a skill.

While this is true, I don't think the NWN2 OC companions are competently written. They have too much fluff dialogue (I'd argue that 95% of their dialogue is fluff) and they don't go anywhere. When you decide to include some element in some art form you have to use it to the logical extreme or at least it should have some function within the work (ex: thematical relevancy alla Planescape Torment). We can cut all the companions from the game and it would still be the same game (with the sole exception of Ammon Jerro). They don't add anything or change our perspective. Anybody could've written them because they don't operate in a/the grand scheme of the writer, no matter how mundane it may be.

I'd even argue that the OC doesn't have a theme, i.e. it isn't about anything. This is also the main reason the companions are shit.

 

[Starwars]

 

[Infinitron]

I'd even argue that the OC doesn't have a theme, i.e. it isn't about anything.

Allow me to introduce you to Mr. Morality Games: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/neverwinter-nights-2-oc-defense.89443/

 

[Roguey]

It's dead Chris. How will you add a speech check when there is no speech skill?

Avellone hates speech skills.

(additionally given his Arcanum performance of course he's more likely to enjoy Fallout 3)

 

[Irenaeus II]

Avellone hates speech skills.

Source?

 

[Roguey]

Avellone hates speech skills.

Source?

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/commen..._with_brian_fargo_and_chris/c4byegy?context=3

I prefer neither because Speech checks are insta-wins and don't require any thought to make them successful.

I prefer speech skills like "empathy" from Fallout 1 where it would tell you what the listener reaction would be, but that wouldn't tell you whether it would actually help you with a quest goal or objective or not (sometimes you'd want someone to go hostile on you).

Also take a look at his own Alpha Protocol, which he hyped for its lack of speech skills.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Thanks.

Wonder what he thinks about skill checks in dialogues instead of Speech checks pure and simple. The game that best implemented this was Age of Decadence, which has at least 4 "speech" skills (persuasion, streetwise, impersonation, ettiquete), along with checks for perception, intelligence and charisma. A lot of tests have different fail states. To me, the future of dialogue based games lies in that direction, increasing the number of skill tests and fail and success states and branching paths in the story.

I'll tell him to give it a try.

 

[Fairfax]

Or I should correct that - random chance isn't a good method either because if the Speech Guy puts 95% into Speech and they fail the check, it's not fair to their character build, imo.

He must be loving FO4.
Speaking of which...

Secondly, I (and Tom French, now a rockstar at Pandemic) had a lot of fun working on New Reno. I think it presents a lot of fun role-playing opportunities and things to do, no matter what "type" of character you are, but does it fit in the setting? No, probably not. It's too sexually over the top, too much profanity, and the look and attitude of some of the characters is too modern-day to complement the feel of the Fallout world (the Mordino family, the fedora hats, the porn studio, the tommy guns, shivs). In that respect, I would consider it an immature design, and while I had fun with it, I don't think it was the best rendition of a section of the Fallout world.

 

[Irenaeus II]

New Reno was awesome, fuck the haters.

 

[Sannom]

Avellone hates speech skills.

Nah, he hates speech skills as no-brains winners, it's different. Speech skills intermixed with other checks and the right path in a conversation are okay for him.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Roguey hates Avellone.

 

[Cazzeris]

Well, according to the Fallout wiki there is this Chris quote, which apparently is representative of his contribution to FNV:

Can I make a Speech check here? Because I really want to make a Speech check.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Roguey always lies.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Roguey always lies.

Is it ping Roguey day today?

 

[Lacrymas]

Allow me to introduce you to Mr. Morality Games: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/neverwinter-nights-2-oc-defense.89443/

The narrative doesn't support this kind of interpretation. It doesn't support any kind of interpretation, so it basically supports all of them. I can say that NWN2OC is about deconstruction of heroism and how everyone who wanted to be a hero ended up corrupted/selling their soul/ostracized etc. He can say it's about defense of a nation, another person can say it's about the individual's role in different contexts (small villages, cities, tribal lizardfolk societies, empires etc.), but none of them would be in any way meaningful.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Roguey always lies.

Is it ping Roguey day today?

I like to call for his attention, since he's a big attention seeker.

I also like to trap him in his arguments and expose his lies ("Avellone hates speech skills") and motivations (hates Avellone). I hope someone out there is entertained. I am.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I like to call for his attention, since he's a big attention seeker.

I also like to trap him in his arguments and expose his lies ("Avellone hates speech skills") and motivations (hates Avellone). I hope someone out there is entertained. I am.

But is it ping Roguey day today?

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

I like to call for his attention, since he's a big attention seeker.

I also like to trap him in his arguments and expose his lies

Seriously? He's "a big attention seeker"? You're literally a yin to his yang. You're two pieces of the same coin, two victims of the same mental decease.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Mical's problem was being a Jedi fanboy, but even then he saw the problems with the current Jedi order and their lack of taking responsibility.

I think the biggest problem with Mical is that he was designed to be a romance option for female PC, which completely ruined this potentially interesting character.

 

[Endemic]

I think the biggest problem with Mical is that he was designed to be a romance option for female PC, which completely ruined this potentially interesting character.

There are hints (Atton gets jealous if the Exile has higher influence with Mical), but we all know MCA hates romances :p

 

[Fairfax]

So my friend was tellling me how he wanted this book about Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross to come out in english, and when I checked the description I noticed MCA wrote its foreword:

Prólogo de Chris Avellone, diseñador de Fallout 2

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