Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Starwars]

Can't these interviewers try to come up with something new now? I can't recall how many times I've read about Avellone getting his start in the gaming industry.

 

[Excidium II]

He oughta do something new for people to ask something new.

 

[Fairfax]

To be fair, the interview above is almost 8 years old.

 

[pippin]

In fact he said he was glad they got Felicia Day to do Veronica's voice in NV's making of documentary.

Well let us just say she fits the character perfectly.

Yeah, espcially when you blow up the Brotherhood bunker with her inside.

 

[Fairfax]

- Favourite character question: Fall-from-Grace, said she was basically his answer to the succubus from Diablo because they were over-sexualized and the sounds annoyed him. He said she was one of his favourites, though. Not the favourite.

- Considers himself a Lawful Neutral (maybe it wasn't in this interview, but he said that in one of the videos I watched).

- Advice about character design: they should always contribute to the success of the story. Also likes when they echo what the reader might be thinking. Gives an example from Aliens, where one character suggestes they should GTFO and nuke the planet.
Each character should have a distinctive tone and slang, to the point where "you don't have to show that character speaking to know who's speaking in the scene". Uses HK-47 as an example.
Visual tags and hooks are imporant as well.

- On companion design: one should always make sure they're effective in combat, otherwise players simply leave them behind. They should also contribute in other ways, such as more XP, equipment, new questlines, etc.
If the game has a theme, companions should be "sounding boards" for that theme. Says he used Rose to compare the NCR and the Legion, trying to show it wasn't as black and white as it seems at first.

- No.1 difference to Interplay was that they decided from day 1 to be more transparent. Said it was very different under Fargo, then it went on a downward spiral and people didn't really know what was going on.
At Obsidian, every two weeks Feargus outlines the company's overall direction, contracts they were pursuing, expectations, budgets, pitches, etc to the rest of the company.

- Had only played ME1 at that point (not sure if he played the others later). Really liked the moment where you speak t othe Rachni Queen and said it was one of the few cases in a game where he didn't know what to do (he let them go).
He liked Wrex a lot. Thought the elcor were "fucking cool" and that they sounded awesome.

The female interviewer is really annoying. She's always making noses or randomly laughing, her voice is annoying and her diction is fucking terrible. Nothing of interest came out of her questions anyway, so I'd recommend skipping her entirely.
Just skip from 18:52 to 36:55.

- Was hoping for a Fallout series by Dark Horse, but doesn't think Bethesda was interested.

- No favourite convention, but most "fulfilling" conventions are the PAX ones.

- If he could approve the sequel to any game ever it would be System Shock 3.

- Game mechanic he'd kill: "I'd like to see the quest compass go away".



(From 01/02/13)

 

[Lacrymas]

- Advice about character design: they should always contribute to the success of the story. Also likes when they echo what the reader might be thinking. Gives an example from Aliens, where one character suggestes they should GTFO and nuke the planet.
Each character should have a distinctive tone and slang, to the point where "you don't have to show that character speaking to know who's speaking in the scene". Uses HK-47 as an example.
Visual tags and hooks are imporant as well.

- On companion design: one should always make sure they're effective in combat, otherwise players simply leave them behind. They should also contribute in other ways, such as more XP, equipment, new questlines, etc.
If the game has a theme, companions should be "sounding boards" for that theme. Says he used Rose to compare the NCR and the Legion, trying to show it wasn't as black and white as it seems at first.

This is the only useful info from the bunch. The most important fact to take from this is that the companions should be consistent within the world that is made manifest to us and that they should be distinct and extraordinary. You can't make art based on ordinary things, nobody wants to play a game in which you "Netflix and chill" or whatever the cool kids are doing nowadays. The companions are building blocks in a logical, coherent whole (the narrative) and their presence should be important and not understated. The more ordinary they become, the less they shine within a work (*cough* BiowEAre *cough*) and the more their importance diminishes. Chris understands this (he outright says it) and that's why he has created some of the most iconic and well written characters in gaming history.

 

[Xor]

- Game mechanic he'd kill: "I'd like to see the quest compass go away".

 

[Fairfax]

From Retro Gamer 137 (February 2015), in a feature about D&D games.

 

[J_C]

Yeah, that's p. pathetic. Makes me appreciate Vault Dweller a lot more than these "mainstream" developers.


.

The word you are looking for is responsible grown up.
The people who are saying things like disgusting and pathetic are the ones who 1. Never had a job 2. Children or 3. Never worked at a place where you are part of a team.
VD can say whatever he wants because he has his own company, and never wants to work with others from the industry.
But as the codexians who left to Inxile showed us, if you work at a place like that, you shut your mouth and stop shitting where you eat.

And it is not just the gaming industry. You don't see Del Toro go: man have you seen the new Transformers? Michael Bay is really the biggest hack in the industry.

Bitching should be left for the fans, working people are doing their work.

 

[Volrath]

Yeah, that's p. pathetic. Makes me appreciate Vault Dweller a lot more than these "mainstream" developers.


.

The word you are looking for is responsible grown up.
The people who are saying things like disgusting and pathetic are the ones who 1. Never had a job 2. Children or 3. Never worked at a place where you are part of a team.
VD can say whatever he wants because he has his own company, and never wants to work with others from the industry.
But as the codexians who left to Inxile showed us, if you work at a place like that, you shut your mouth and stop shitting where you eat.

And it is not just the gaming industry. You don't see Del Toro go: man have you seen the new Transformers? Michael Bay is really the biggest hack in the industry.

Bitching should be left for the fans, working people are doing their work.

But their work is, for lack of a better word, complete and utter shit. That's the problem.

 

[Infinitron]

This is the only useful info from the bunch. The most important fact to take from this is that the companions should be consistent within the world that is made manifest to us and that they should be distinct and extraordinary. You can't make art based on ordinary things, nobody wants to play a game in which you "Netflix and chill" or whatever the cool kids are doing nowadays. The companions are building blocks in a logical, coherent whole (the narrative) and their presence should be important and not understated. The more ordinary they become, the less they shine within a work (*cough* BiowEAre *cough*) and the more their importance diminishes. Chris understands this (he outright says it) and that's why he has created some of the most iconic and well written characters in gaming history.

I think this is both a mischaracterization of Avellone's views (MCA doesn't just make Kreias and Durances, he also makes Cassidies) and of Bioware companions (ordinary, really?)

 

[Lacrymas]

I think this is both a mischaracterization of Avellone's views (MCA doesn't just make Kreias and Durances, he also makes Cassidies) and of Bioware companions (ordinary, really?)

No idea who Cassidy is, so can't comment on that (prob New Vegas? Couldn't play it because of being a hiking simulator). The main problem here is that creating the companions is an artful endeavor and they have to be a logical part of the bigger narrative. Not being ordinary is mandatory in art in general. Maybe "Cassidy" wasn't ordinary compared to the rest of the world, even if she was in the context of real life, otherwise I don't see the point. Yes, Bioware companions are ordinary? They even talk like average Americans. In this context Shale was well-made, maybe Sten, though he was boring, aaaaaand that's it. They still don't contribute anything to the big picture or enrich the world in any way, sooooo whatever.

 

[DosBuster]

Yeah, that's p. pathetic. Makes me appreciate Vault Dweller a lot more than these "mainstream" developers.


.

The word you are looking for is responsible grown up.
The people who are saying things like disgusting and pathetic are the ones who 1. Never had a job 2. Children or 3. Never worked at a place where you are part of a team.
VD can say whatever he wants because he has his own company, and never wants to work with others from the industry.
But as the codexians who left to Inxile showed us, if you work at a place like that, you shut your mouth and stop shitting where you eat.

And it is not just the gaming industry. You don't see Del Toro go: man have you seen the new Transformers? Michael Bay is really the biggest hack in the industry.

Bitching should be left for the fans, working people are doing their work.

But their work is, for lack of a better word, complete and utter shit. That's the problem.

except that a game being shit is usually the result of either bullshit they couldn't control or the decisions of one person on the team. besides when you're looking for a secure job it helps to be known as a friendly guy

 

[Infinitron]

No idea who Cassidy is, so can't comment on that (prob New Vegas? Couldn't play it because of being a hiking simulator). The main problem here is that creating the companions is an artful endeavor and they have to be a logical part of the bigger narrative. Not being ordinary is mandatory in art in general. Maybe "Cassidy" wasn't ordinary compared to the rest of the world, even if she was in the context of real life, otherwise I don't see the point. Yes, Bioware companions are ordinary? They even talk like average Americans. In this context Shale was well-made, maybe Sten, though he was boring, aaaaaand that's it. They still don't contribute anything to the big picture or enrich the world in any way, sooooo whatever.

In terms of personality, Bioware companions tend to be juvenile, cliched and EXTREME. That's why people on this forum don't like them, in large part because of their lack of ordinariness. I would also say that many of them do illustrate aspects of the games' settings (have you played any recent Bioware RPG other than DA:O?).

 

[HotSnack]

Advance Wars: Days of Ruin

Days of Ruin is criminally under-appreciated as an AW title. Vastly scaled down CO powers and general rebalance, a great soundtrack, a grimdark post-apoc setting that subverted AW's main setting. The last point seems very Avellonian. Cool to see he is a fan of the Phoenix Wright games too.

 

[Lacrymas]

In terms of personality, Bioware companions tend to be juvenile, cliched and EXTREME. That's why people on this forum don't like them, in large part because of their lack of ordinariness. I would also say that many of them do illustrate aspects of the games' settings (have you played any recent Bioware RPG other than DA:O?).

Maybe EXTREME-ly boring. I don't really know what you mean by that though. All of their companions could easily have been written on a napkin by the janitor. The point of writing something down is to be able to logically connect everything, otherwise it's just a string of ideas sewn together. The non-mandatory-ness of companions complicate this somewhat, but it has been done, especially in MotB. I call it "cut-up relevancy" (analogous to the cut-up technique in literature where you can rearrange the text without it losing its sense of meaning), i.e. their importance is only made apparent if they are present in a given moment - whether that is a scripted event in which they are present or just by simply talking to them. Example - Kaelyn the Dove, you couldn't assault the Fugue Plane without her having collected an army before that, but you don't need to know that to assault it or have her in your party at all (I think?).

 

[Infinitron]

Ah, boring. Boring isn't the same thing as ordinary. An action hero walking slowly from an explosion behind him is cliche, but it's not ordinary.

Example - Kaelyn the Dove, you couldn't assault the Fugue Plane without her having collected an army before that, but you don't need to know that to assault it or have her in your party at all (I think?).

I think that in these sorts of RPGs, to demand that every companion actually be a major power player in the game's storyline in that fashion is probably unrealistic.

But what you can expect from them is to either 1) Reflect upon the setting in some way or failing that, at least 2) Mirror the game's themes in some way.

The smaller and less epic the game, the easier it may be to do the former. The otherwise terrible Dragon Age 2 for example has companions whose subplots each reflect upon some aspect of the functioning of the game's urban fantasy setting, in an almost The Wire-esque way.

 

[Lacrymas]

Ah, boring. Boring isn't the same thing as ordinary. An action hero walking slowly from an explosion behind him is cliche, but it's not ordinary.

No, I mean ordinary as in average personality. What they do in spite of their personality is just bad writing and cliche.

I don't mean that every companion should be a power player, I did say however that they should be consistent within the world/narrative that is made manifest in front of us when playing a game/reading a book/watching a movie. If they aren't connected to it somehow then there is no point in them being there. Be it in a thematic way (Planescape Torment), literally being a catalyst for events within the work (MotB), or being the work itself (Kreia). Everything that isn't in any way connected is by definition extraneous fluff which is in for its own sake (which is absurdly bad in any art form). The internal logic of a work cannot be compromised in any way, if it is then the artist has failed, it's as simple as that (although it isn't simple in practice, long story).

 

[Infinitron]

Well like I said, I don't think most of those companions have average personalities. I think you put too much stock into the fact that they speak "standard American". There's nothing average about characters like Morrigan, Merill and Isabella - they are extreme caricatures. Dragon Age: Origins even gives you two actual average personalities to contrast them with, the two temporary intro companions Daveth and Jory.

 

[Roguey]

But their work is, for lack of a better word, complete and utter shit. That's the problem.

Even with games he dislikes, I doubt Avellone would agree.

 

[Irenaeus III]

No idea who Cassidy is

The word you are looking for is responsible grown up.The people who are saying things like disgusting and pathetic are the ones who 1. Never had a job 2. Children or 3. Never worked at a place where you are part of a team.

1. I have a job. 2. I'm an adult 3. I work at a place where I'm part of a team. A good team.

Disgusting and pathetic should be used more in the video game industry. They should be thankful we who say this things exist. Being scared by PC and shutting your mouth on criticism may help keep your job, but also produces a perfect environment for the development of shit games. Where I work, I criticize bad shit with harsh words like disgusting and pathetic to my coworkers and bosses, particularly when talking about the competition. I learned to keep my mouth opened.

As for Del Toro, I disagree with him politically, but he doesn't spare bad words when criticizing capitalism and hating Franco's Spain, while putting millions in his pockets. Not bad for a communist shill. I like some of his movies but Pacific Rim for instance is horrible.

 

[Fairfax]

Yeah, that's p. pathetic. Makes me appreciate Vault Dweller a lot more than these "mainstream" developers.


.

The word you are looking for is responsible grown up.
The people who are saying things like disgusting and pathetic are the ones who 1. Never had a job 2. Children or 3. Never worked at a place where you are part of a team.
VD can say whatever he wants because he has his own company, and never wants to work with others from the industry.
But as the codexians who left to Inxile showed us, if you work at a place like that, you shut your mouth and stop shitting where you eat.

And it is not just the gaming industry. You don't see Del Toro go: man have you seen the new Transformers? Michael Bay is really the biggest hack in the industry.

Bitching should be left for the fans, working people are doing their work.

But their work is, for lack of a better word, complete and utter shit. That's the problem.

I'm sure MCA would agree in many cases. If you connect the dots, for instance, it's easy to see he despises a lot of decisions and mechanics in Fallout 4 despite the fact he's never criticized it directly. Obviously not nearly as much as the Codex, of course.
It's a small world with very intense work hours, and he has complained numerous times about destructive feedback. Not saying people should feel sorry for devs or anything, shitting on games is 100% fair game for players, but MCA doesn't shit on these games publicly because there's no reason for him to burn so many bridges. There are good people in (almost) every studio. He might want to work with them or end up working for them at some point. Why ruin these opportunities? To validate the opinions of forum users?

 

[Malignant Manor]

How often are you quoted in the news with your opinions Irenaeus III? Do you work as a contractor who will likely need to seek a new employer (likely ones you have given bad press) after you finish a contract/product? There are massive hiring and layoff shifts in video games.

 

[Irenaeus III]

How often are you quoted in the news with your opinions Irenaeus III?

A fair number of times.

Do you work as a contractor who will likely need to seek a new employer (likely ones you have given bad press) after you finish a contract/product? There are massive hiring and layoff shifts in video games.

When I leave my current job as an Economist, I'll take up my family business and decide which employee gets to work or who is fired, together with my brothers and sister.

A lot of video game developers leave this shitty "mainstream" industry and create their own studios and make better games. I say trash shit games to hell. Chris is a great writer/developer and I'm sure he could find enough collaborators to make good games if he wanted, instead of appeasing the current monkeys in charge of the horrible big developers/publishers (EA/Bioware, Zanimax/Bethesda, etc.).

 

[Roguey]

Whose account is this?