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Development Info Christmas is a time for Mirth

Shock

Novice
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
33
GhanBuriGhan said:
A manual is badly needed. This one has a learning curve only just this side of Battlecruiser 3000AD...

Still, I was quite impressed from my first 15 minutes, just by the scale and size of it all, and the detail in the user interface. Even more after reading the post-mortem on their forum. Two guys, and a couple contracted artists, 11 Months. That is incredibly efficient, whatever else you may say about the game. I might end up buying it just to express my admiration for such a feat.

I agree a manual is needed, but the Help button gives you a ton of information to get started. All you have to do is ask online and most people will tell you that all information is in the Help area. It's not like a major tragedy or anything.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
Shock said:
GhanBuriGhan said:
A manual is badly needed. This one has a learning curve only just this side of Battlecruiser 3000AD...

Still, I was quite impressed from my first 15 minutes, just by the scale and size of it all, and the detail in the user interface. Even more after reading the post-mortem on their forum. Two guys, and a couple contracted artists, 11 Months. That is incredibly efficient, whatever else you may say about the game. I might end up buying it just to express my admiration for such a feat.

I agree a manual is needed, but the Help button gives you a ton of information to get started. All you have to do is ask online and most people will tell you that all information is in the Help area. It's not like a major tragedy or anything.
I guess I am a bit self-conscious on going online as a clueless noob - I rather figure things out in SP first...
 

Rune_74

Novice
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
48
No Prob

Hey there,

I have no prob as well as alot of other long time players have no prob in giving any help at all...we were all noobs at one time;)


Yes I agree that a manual would be great, perhaps one of the new guys in can really help with this because they see the hard things that we don't anymore.

Great to see some good comments on here ...

Oh and shock, if I find out who you are on the game you are not going to like me.

Rune
 

Jason

chasing a bee
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
10,737
Location
baby arm fantasy island
A manual is mandatory, whether in print or pdf. I shouldn't have to bug other players online to be able to play a game that I paid for. This is one reason I probably won't be buying this.
 

Jason

chasing a bee
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
10,737
Location
baby arm fantasy island
Hey Rune,
Since you've been playing this longer, would you recommend it for the SP alone? Or do you need to play online for it to be worth it?
 

Rune_74

Novice
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
48
Well

I originally played it single player to tell the truth...I have been playing on the server now...either way its a very similar game....if you like just going through the adventure fine single player is fine....when I play multi I basically go out alone anyways:P


As time goes on I'm sure we are going to see some great quests commin down the pipeline...what I really want to see is the storyline buffed up a bit:)

It really does grow on you though and you can't help but feel an oldschool love for it. Lots of guys are making new stuff so there will always be new stuff at least, and with time I think this game could really grow into a fan base game.

Rune
 

roguefrog

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
590
Location
Tokyo, Japan
Ok give us some examples of the storyline or some interesting quests if you would. Also any light on my previous issues would be great. There was just a severe lack of intuitiveness. I thought I knew what I was doing based on all the cRPGs I've played, but when it didn't work, I tried to figure it out, and when I tried to figure it out, it still didn't work. Makes it frustrating to play the game at the most basic level.

I could spend more time with the demo and figure things out, but I think that time would be better spent invested in the full game, and knowing the mechanics at work, provided it's something I would want to play. That is still up in the air...
 

JRitter

Novice
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
32
Location
Wishek, ND
There is extensive help in game by clicking on the question mark symbol on the tome. There is a full list of mouse/keyboard actions, commands, and a FAQ. There are also tooltips for just about every element of the GUI.

We do need to generate better documentation.

-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
I think the game is intuitive to people that are MMORPG-soaked, or particularly Everquest-soaked. For me (not an Everquest person) it's like I'm someone who isn't an RPG nerd trying to play Darklands without the manual. There's a grammar to the game that's different even if the vocabulary is the same.
 

Shagnak

Shagadelic
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
Messages
4,638
Location
Arse of the world, New Zealand
Mefi said:
I'm enjoying the SP mode. Although the macros don't quite impress me as much as Shagnak due to countless hours playing teh cleric on guild raids in EQ
Well, this is the thing - anything I say about an MMOG has to be taken with a grain of salt. I am not much of an MMOG player, and my experience is limited to either the free sort (Rubies of Eventide or Anarchy Online) or the "no subs" sort (Guild Wars). So, anything remotely interesting is probably more impressive to me.
Im an MMOG n00b, relatively speaking, and I don't mind admitting it :)

Mefi said:
Been tempted to go online but 56k modem keeps reminding me that it would be a bad idea.
My ADSL cap hadn't rolled over yesterday and I was playing on a 64kbit connection with no problems. From NZ. That probably still has advantages over dial-up though, even though very much clawed back.

Mefi said:
What's it like Shagnak? Tried any alliance fights yet?
Nope. I've only played about three hours, on and off, and I'm still very low level. Mainly because I was working stuff out, exploring and talking to people rather than concentrating on leveling.

I plan to play some more when I get the time. I'll be called "Shagnak" if anyone wants to find me.

baby arm said:
... would you recommend it for the SP alone? Or do you need to play online for it to be worth it?
As Rune points out, playing online is very similar, especially if you aren't partying up with other players. But I think the game feels more "alive" with the odd other person wandering around as well.

And a couple of times I've had my arse hauled out of the fire by a passer-by (thanks Ruby/Blaze, whoever you are :wink: )

Atleast in SP you can still log into chat and get some advice, which is a nice idea.
 

Rune_74

Novice
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
48
there..

Well, I honestly just scraped the first 14 levels of my character....and haven't seen much of the higher storey line...

so can't comment much on that....but I can comment on that if things don't work great or you can think of a better way....josh will be the first to listen. And most likely if its a good idea he will implement it....

I really REALLY have to stress if we get alot of good poeple with good rpg experience this game could be revoloutionary in rpg's ...(is that a marketing term??) its a game that can grow without being eatin by all the big companies out there...don't like the dungeons? make some new ones to add....etc....a modular system where new zones can be added...where the player can actually have a hand in all that?

Some of the player classes could be fleshed out a bit....so lets give some suggestions....etc...

Rune
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
I played the demo in SP this evening. My first impressions are a mixed bag, but overall mildly positive.

-Game seems rock stable.

-Character creation is ok, it seemed weird that the portrait is apparently totally disconnected from the race or gender you pick :) Some of the attributes are hard to tell apart - Here a better in game help would have been great.

- I like the extensive feel of the game world. I haven't been around much, just in an out of Trinsc (?), but it certainly feels like it could satisfy my exploration craving for a while, with far flung landscapes, little points of itnerest, and all those zones...
I'm a sucker for exploration so that's definitely a big plus. Nice skies, weather effects, all decent.

- On highest detail the graphics are passable, although the world seem to lack a certain shine, it has a muted quality. On lower settings a lot of the textures are very blurry. Certainly not up to date, but only a few year back it would have been quite passable. Unfortunately my fears about interior design were partly fulfilled: Lots of large empty rooms (although a few do have some furniture), and some furniture etc. you clip right through. A bit more clutter would help the visual style and immersion a lot. The buildings etc. themselves are nice to look at, though.

- Quest were of the simple kill stuff variety so far, but it's a bit early to judge - it's typical beginners fare, after all. The info for the quests is a bit unoganized, it shows up partly in the dialogue window, partly in the tome, and partly in the log window. Easy to miss stuff.

- The interface is easily cluttered, and complex. but very adjustable. Some things seemed redundant: why a party AND individual member windows, AND a separate macro window?The in game help is pretty good in some respects, but it certainly doesn't quite replace a good manual. It tells you where things are, but not always how they work together. I am still very unsure how character progression works (seems a combination of skill use and XP based), how macros are used correctly (one button triggers every party members action with that number???) etc. etc. The encyclopedia, that made my heart beat higher when I discoverd it, unfortunately is a mere list of loot and spawns - where is the lore info? Is there an in game world map???

- I certainly encountered hints of a fairly complex system - there is obviously crafting of weapons and armor, alchemy, pets, multiclassing, etc.

- Combat is ugh. It's too bad that only one character of your party is shown. It's too bad that combat consists only of hitting animations - it doesn't even matter if I am facing the enemy. It's too quiet - no weapon swooshing, no clanging swords except if you hit. It has neither tactics not action - I guess MMORPG players are used to it, but it was dissapointing to me. Only magic seems to require any kind of input from my side.

- Sound is a very weak point. Little ambience, no foot sounds, not talking, (except very weird laughs and grunts when you initiate dialogue or solve a quest). This needs a lot of work, IMHO. The music is pretty good though!

Too early for a summary or recommendation. I think I might give it a chance as an exploration game for a while, and just to see if I can get into the MMOG thing - never tried one before.
 

crpgnut

Augur
Joined
Dec 11, 2002
Messages
337
Location
St. Louis,MO,USA
The help sucks in some cases. I'm a ranger and I have a skill? called rescue. I bound it to a key but I have no idea what it does. It seems to do nothing.
 

Shock

Novice
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
33
Re: No Prob

Rune_74 said:
Hey there,

I have no prob as well as alot of other long time players have no prob in giving any help at all...we were all noobs at one time;)


Yes I agree that a manual would be great, perhaps one of the new guys in can really help with this because they see the hard things that we don't anymore.

Great to see some good comments on here ...

Oh and shock, if I find out who you are on the game you are not going to like me.

Rune


But I like you. Surely you aren't relying solely on this troll site to promote the game.

If so, I would start programming special content like Magical Pampers and Hooked on Phonics scrolls. The future manual should read like "Baby's First Book".
 

Mefi

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
1,364
Location
waiting for a train at Perdido Street Station
Getting better Shock. Only 28 posts practice here plus the 740 over at dreamcaster (as you seem to recycle most of your lines) and you've now reached a sort of sub-standard level of trolling. Keep going.

---------------------------

Might be that I'm remembering stuff from my EQ days, but it seems pretty intuitive to me. If you haven't used this MMORPG style of interface before, I guess it must be quite confusing initially.

re. Rescue - as far as I can make out, it's meant to make monsters attack you as their priority. It's a rescue for someone else, rather than for you. Much like the 'taunt' skill in EQ I'd imagine.
 

JRitter

Novice
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
32
Location
Wishek, ND
@crpgnut: You are absolutely right that the help sucks in those cases. We are working on better documentation. The core development team of the game is 2 people. Yargh!

At any rate, Rescue will make whatever monsters you are fighting target the rescuing character. This is great if your wizard is getting beat on :)

-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, inc
 

Shock

Novice
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
33
Mefi said:
Getting better Shock. Only 28 posts practice here plus the 740 over at dreamcaster (as you seem to recycle most of your lines) and you've now reached a sort of sub-standard level of trolling. Keep going.

---------------------------

Don't be jealous. You'll catch up one day.
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
Okay. I installed the demo, tried it for about 3 minutes, searched the Prairie official forums, found out there is no lock for mouse-look, and uninstalled the game. It is too fucking annoying for a 1st Person/3rd Person game to have to hold down a key to use mouse look. Perhaps when this is fixed, I'll try again.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
My you are a flexible old geezer, aren't you? Probably one of those that couldn't play Gothic because of the "terrible" control scheme?
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
Why the fuck do I have to hold down a key in combination with WASD to frigging move? It's STUPID. Has nothing to do with flexibility. It's just retarded. It's like playing standing on one leg.
 

JRitter

Novice
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
32
Location
Wishek, ND
The mouse is the primary input device for looking and for interacting with the game's GUI. You hold down the right mouse button to mouse look.

The mouse look key you mention is primarily for OSX users who have one mouse button.

-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc
 

Jason

chasing a bee
Joined
Jun 30, 2005
Messages
10,737
Location
baby arm fantasy island
Gothic did have a terrible control scheme. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses for the developers. Some people got used to it and enjoyed the game despite the crappy controls. Others did not and moved on.
 

HardCode

Erudite
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
1,139
JRitter said:
The mouse is the primary input device for looking and for interacting with the game's GUI. You hold down the right mouse button to mouse look.

The mouse look key you mention is primarily for OSX users who have one mouse button.

-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc

A 1st/3rd person game should use one key for movement (i.e. W, A, S, or D) with mouselook locked in. The toggle key should bring the mouse back in focus for the menus ... just like MW. Having to hold another key or mouse button to move around is silly in a 1st/3rd person.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
HardCode said:
JRitter said:
The mouse is the primary input device for looking and for interacting with the game's GUI. You hold down the right mouse button to mouse look.

The mouse look key you mention is primarily for OSX users who have one mouse button.

-Josh Ritter
Prairie Games, Inc

A 1st/3rd person game should use one key for movement (i.e. W, A, S, or D) with mouselook locked in. The toggle key should bring the mouse back in focus for the menus ... just like MW. Having to hold another key or mouse button to move around is silly in a 1st/3rd person.

Yes it is, but it should not be a deciding factor.
 

GhanBuriGhan

Erudite
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
1,170
baby arm said:
Gothic did have a terrible control scheme. Anyone who says otherwise is just making excuses for the developers. Some people got used to it and enjoyed the game despite the crappy controls. Others did not and moved on.

I never thought so, except for the inventory navigation which was indeed tedious. But the rest of the control scheme took me all of 5 minutes to master, and became second nature as easily as Mouslook-WASD. I rather think people are too happy to jump on every bitching bandwagon that comes along, in addition of beeing incredibly inflexible.
 

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