Civilization VI - Now available, so you can sink all your free time into it

[flyingjohn]

Does civ 6 still have the civ v builder ai is separate from unit ai problem?
I remember in civ v you could drop the ai in a full snow terrain and it would still build workers regardless of that they can't do anything.
Same for units,it builds them but the units have no planned target so they just dance around.

 

[Dickie]

War weariness only goes up when you do battle, so it definitely shouldn't be "happily rising" every turn after you end a war by elimination. It also goes down a little every turn, moreso when not at war. It doesn't disappear immediately when the war ends like in some previous Civs.

I played an interesting game with Germany, since I saw a video where it was pointed out that the hansa has different adjacency bonuses from the industrial district. I put a bunch of cities as close together as possible, so I could get lots of Hansas in a line, with commercial districts around them (getting lots of them with +16 adjacency bonus). My production was as high as I've ever seen, but it occurred to me that the district placement seems to be another thing that the AI struggles with. They hardly ever even build districts.

This was only on king difficulty, but I was able to win a science victory around 1900 without ever building a campus nor conquering a city. I was looking around the map and most civs had only built maybe three or four science districts, and they weren't in ideal locations anyway. Combined with the AIs inability to grow cities, they really have no chance of keeping up in science. I'll see what happens when I go to higher difficulties, but I like the district system, and I'm a bit sad the AI seemingly can't handle it.

Also, even on epic speed and with no science districts, I was still able to get techs every 5-10 turns. It's ludicrous. I tried marathon speed to slow down the techs a little more, but spending 40 turns to get your first worker is tiring.

 

[Bliblablubb]

Yes it was a definitely a bug, but as I said it could thankfully be fixed.

Districts and wonders are very metagaming, first time you stumble in the dark, but afterwards you can exploit them better than the AI ever could. Even if it was a good AI.
Like e.g. making a ring of cities around your capital putting industrial districts with it's buildings inwards for a shared bonus and the colosseum wonder in the middle for the entertainment. Quite powerful. And pityful to see how much overkill it is.

 

[Mr. Pink]

http://pastebin.com/nLzR4pfn

quotes.txt is getting close to done. If you have any suggestions for quotes for the topics that are missing, PM them to me.

 

[Destroid]

Yes it was a definitely a bug, but as I said it could thankfully be fixed.

Districts and wonders are very metagaming, first time you stumble in the dark, but afterwards you can exploit them better than the AI ever could. Even if it was a good AI.
Like e.g. making a ring of cities around your capital putting industrial districts with it's buildings inwards for a shared bonus and the colosseum wonder in the middle for the entertainment. Quite powerful. And pityful to see how much overkill it is.

The decision to let districts and some wonders affect all cities within a radius is pretty weird.

 

[sser]

The district management/planning are one of the few things I do like quite a bit about Civ6. Also, Japan gains additional bonuses for that sort of "city planning" foresight if you align all those districts next to one another across city-lines.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

This was only on king difficulty, but I was able to win a science victory around 1900 without ever building a campus nor conquering a city. I was looking around the map and most civs had only built maybe three or four science districts, and they weren't in ideal locations anyway. Combined with the AIs inability to grow cities, they really have no chance of keeping up in science. I'll see what happens when I go to higher difficulties, but I like the district system, and I'm a bit sad the AI seemingly can't handle it.

Also, even on epic speed and with no science districts, I was still able to get techs every 5-10 turns. It's ludicrous. I tried marathon speed to slow down the techs a little more, but spending 40 turns to get your first worker is tiring.

For what it's worth, by some bizarre coincidence, my current game of Civ3 involves me banning myself from constructing Libraries (and by default Universities and Research Labs), and I arrived in the Modern Age (Rocketry) in 1800AD on Monarch difficulty. Civ3 vanilla went: Chieftain - Warlord - Regent - Monarch - Emperor - Deity. Had I prioritised for a Science win by this method the result would have been similar. Screenshots available if you want.

 

[Bliblablubb]

This game just keeps on giving. I am almost having more fun laughing at the AI's fuckups and bugs then actually playing it.

This time Pip I. of PortuSpain decided to place a city in between my empire, his settler crawling at least 30 turns up there, despite having HUEG tracts of land right beside his capital on the other side of the continent. In fact I almost came a little seeing all those untapped fertile lands, hills and resources (he didn't even have yet). Why did he settle with me, more important, why didn't ANYONE settle down there yet?
The answer is: settler unit overlay. After buying one FOR SCIENCE, I found out that all that land is grey (lack of fresh water), while 2 tiny spots between my cities are dark green. Prosperland is doing well without fresh water and I didn't even have to build an aqueduct. Why bother prioritzing fresh water if you only have 5 hexes to use? It's a mystery...
And when I quiclkly moved my only pony to occupy the other green spot, there was really a second settler on his way to claim that one too. Now, because I was denying him his city spot he declared war on me.
Why thank you good sir, that was exactly what I was waiting for.

Razed his shitty new city to show him the futility of this endeavour and laid siege to another one, just for good measure (and to check how war weariness would turn out). Since my army of archers had the city surrounded, his approaching units couldn't find a way in, so they... just stayed away. But I let the one unit escorting a settler in, who thought a sieged city is his {{{safe space}}}. What a thoughtful gift, I appreciate it.
After 5 turns of uneventful archer volleys it turns out archers cannot occupy cities. Huh, must be a union regulation thing. Lesson learned, so I spent another 5 turns bringing down captain ponyrider, farming XP by firing on an empty city until then. A thousand men with bows cannot do what 50 men on ponies can. Now I have to check if they can even use the siege tower to bypass walls.
One turn after occupying it, Pip begs for peace, giving me all he has and CEDES this city to me. Another turn later he denounces me for occupying one of his cities....
What is the point of ceding it, when it still counts as his? Great, now I have to keep him alive to see if he can also declare a reconquest on it. FOR SCIENCE.

Because that city is full of heathens, I dumped a shitload of missionaries on it, to convert them to the one true belief (Mormon-Islam: 7 waifus while alive, and 7 new ones in the afterlife). Oddly, the city is still shown as filthy catholic, even tho only one of them remains. Huh...

Meanwhile in the south, Cleo Petra has managed to conquer my favorite city state. It seems they had been at war for over 20 turns, but I didn't notice it thanks to the shitty UI and the units just making a staring contest down there. Just now the snobby beurette found a heart to even enter the premises. I bet she only managed to occupy it, because one unit took an accidental shotcut through the unprotected city hex...
I hope you can liberate city states, because getting a free strategic resource of anything was pretty powerful...

While I was preparing "Operation Greatness Restored", it turns out I lost the ability to create missionaries of the one true faith, despite all my cities being stout believers. Even worse, instead I can now only build the catholic ones in the former portospanish city, even tho only one citizen still follows it.
This is not how religion works, why, why are you doing this to me game?
If I can't fix it by reloading, I have to revert to an old save and burn that motherfucker down, loosing about an hour in the process...

TLDR: Having fun watching the AI doing stupid things.

 

[vonAchdorf]

This time Pip I. of PortuSpain decided to place a city in between my empire, his settler crawling at least 30 turns up there, despite having HUEG tracts of land right beside his capital on the other side of the continent. In fact I almost came a little seeing all those untapped fertile lands, hills and resources (he didn't even have yet). Why did he settle with me, more important, why didn't ANYONE settle down there yet?
The answer is: settler unit overlay. After buying one FOR SCIENCE, I found out that all that land is grey (lack of fresh water), while 2 tiny spots between my cities are dark green. Prosperland is doing well without fresh water and I didn't even have to build an aqueduct. Why bother prioritzing fresh water if you only have 5 hexes to use? It's a mystery...
And when I quiclkly moved my only pony to occupy the other green spot, there was really a second settler on his way to claim that one too. Now, because I was denying him his city spot he declared war on me.
Why thank you good sir, that was exactly what I was waiting for.

Happened to me as well. The AI constantly tried to build cities in a large "free" spot between mine. I told them off diplomatically, didn't work. I razed the city and they tried to rebuild it shortly after. I finally had to keep the city to occupy the space.

 

[Dickie]

The most annoying thing about them forward settling you is how they suddenly think that's their land and shout "fuck you" for dropping a city in their territory when you decide to settle any lands near your capital. After this, it's all war all the time.

 

[Bliblablubb]

The AI constantly tried to build cities in a large "free" spot between mine.

Yeah, THAT is normal Civ behavior. Happens all the time when you place your cities too far apart, so you don't have a working border (and the reason I never accept open borders). But spending 30 turns to crawl up to the only green, ONE green hex, while ignoring resources right in front of your doorstep is a new level of blackout. A human player in that garden eden starting position would have steamrolled the continent before renaissance.
Using a settler overlay was like having a fascinating insight into an AZN AI mind, and calling the civ 6 AI "rudimentary" is still being nice.
I wasn't attacked ONCE during my siege, he had 6 chariots running around, but they all just danced a little and disappeared back in the FoW. The only enemy I am playing against is bugs and me placing districts in the wrong place.

Kleo's war took so long because she has placed a city in each four corners of the continent, the staring contest came from waiting on units from those cities to arrive.

Civ AI's were never on Skynet's level, but this is one here lacks basic things. It's like they put in a placeholder, with the real AI getting delivered later in a patch. It's fun for a while, but I doubt I will play the usual at least 7 rounds with this one.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

i don't know how you can endure this. i reached halfway through classical age and HAD to uninstall it.

 

[vonAchdorf]

The AI constantly tried to build cities in a large "free" spot between mine.

Yeah, THAT is normal Civ behavior. Happens all the time when you place your cities too far apart, so you don't have a working border (and the reason I never accept open borders). But spending 30 turns to crawl up to the only green, ONE green hex, while ignoring resources right in front of your doorstep is a new level of blackout. A human player in that garden eden starting position would have steamrolled the continent before renaissance.
Using a settler overlay was like having a fascinating insight into an AZN AI mind, and calling the civ 6 AI "rudimentary" is still being nice.
I wasn't attacked ONCE during my siege, he had 6 chariots running around, but they all just danced a little and disappeared back in the FoW. The only enemy I am playing against is bugs and me placing districts in the wrong place.

I of course meant small free spot.

 

[Gerrard]

This time Pip I. of PortuSpain decided to place a city in between my empire, his settler crawling at least 30 turns up there, despite having HUEG tracts of land right beside his capital on the other side of the continent. In fact I almost came a little seeing all those untapped fertile lands, hills and resources (he didn't even have yet). Why did he settle with me, more important, why didn't ANYONE settle down there yet?
The answer is: settler unit overlay. After buying one FOR SCIENCE, I found out that all that land is grey (lack of fresh water), while 2 tiny spots between my cities are dark green. Prosperland is doing well without fresh water and I didn't even have to build an aqueduct. Why bother prioritzing fresh water if you only have 5 hexes to use? It's a mystery...
And when I quiclkly moved my only pony to occupy the other green spot, there was really a second settler on his way to claim that one too. Now, because I was denying him his city spot he declared war on me.
Why thank you good sir, that was exactly what I was waiting for.

Happened to me as well. The AI constantly tried to build cities in a large "free" spot between mine. I told them off diplomatically, didn't work. I razed the city and they tried to rebuild it shortly after. I finally had to keep the city to occupy the space.

I bet they stole that from Warlock too

 

[Bliblablubb]

I of course meant small free spot.

Yes I know. The AI was already notorious for doing it, but usually only when there was no space left close to their capital, or when they wanted to grab a resource (legit strategy we all did at one point). I meant that now she just slavishly follows the green spot, without taking distance or resources in account. A VERY basic AI.

Same bullshit with that "your units are too close" nagging. It just doesn't work with the 1uph mechanic. I had Monty nagging me for that once, and since I though he just meant my scout I told him "okay?" and moved him further. A few round later it nagged me with "you broke your promiiiiiiiiiiise!!!!11111".
Turned out his borders had expanded to touch my capital's borders, so my units right beside it (and still 2 hexes away from the border) were considered a buildup for war. Dafuq, where AM I supposed to put them? Could have at least made encampments hold 4 units like the aerodrome can..

Game looks to me like the influencal devs were doing theorycrafting all day, then tell the one coder responsible for the AI "put that also in until tomorrow and make it just work (tm)". Poor guy had to cut corners somewhere.

 

[flyingjohn]

Game looks to me like the influencal devs were doing theorycrafting all day, then tell the one coder responsible for the AI "put that also in until tomorrow and make it just work (tm)". Poor guy had to cut corners somewhere.

Nope, the ai designer was responsible for all the bad decision because he probably never even played strategy games before.(let alone previous civ games)
This is a guy who bragged on stream that the ai can't win domination victory, will gladly give cities for works of art and build workers who won't fix pillaged improvements for hundreds of turns later.

 

[Freddie]

A few turns after I kicked Ghandi's skinny behind into the sky, my cities started revolting at an alarming rate. The "war weariness" was still happily rising, so... I guess I misread it? Maybe the proud people of Codexistan are unhappy because there is NO war?
Nah, it just didn't occur to the programmer that a war might be over after eleminating a leader, because.. just a thought.. the other party has been removed from inventory? Nope, looks like if the player doesn't make a peace treaty the game consideres him at war. Thankfully you can fix it be restarting and reloading a savegame, after the next round the game updates it...

Okay, I'm not buying this game. I got lot of pretty good older games in backlog. Going to check on 2017 if this have improved from it's current state.

 

[Bliblablubb]

Heh, for a moment I thought about making the game great again by modding 'murica with "Emperor Trump" as a leader, using the chinese worker ability to build WALLS everywhere!

But in the end I would probably spend more time trying to mod that than actually playing... meh.

:mrpresident:

 

[Bliblablubb]

Added the ability to rename cities.

I just can't take them serious anymore because of that. The very first thing a player does is founding his first city... and not being able to name it. What were they even thinking? "Let's not break the flow of the game by making the player pause and think?".

[AI TUNING]

Needs less of a "tuning" and more of a complete rewrite. Still waiting for a trade offer beyond "I give you one resource in exchange for 4 of yours and half of your income per round"...

Credits updated.

Gotta admire their priorities. Pampering someone's ego is important.

Everyone has been playing the de facto beta so far.

Have we even reached the beta phase already? I could think of beta versions being insulted by that comparison.

 

[rezaf]

I like these:

* Units may no longer be deleted when they are damaged.

* Deleting a unit no longer provides gold.

Firaxis is so funny.
What?!? You think it's OP and not well designed that we allowed yall to get half the unit's worth in hammers back when disbanding it, even it if was damaged or had only one of it's charges left?
Ungrateful vermin, don't you realize how aggravating and stressful game design is?
Tell you what, we'll make you wait until a unit is fully healed before you can disband it. And then you STILL won't get even a single coin out of it!
How do you like that, suckers?!?
Not STFU, or we'll make you pay for the privilege of disbanding.

 

[Bliblablubb]

even it if was damaged or had only one of it's charges left?

To be fair, deleting a damaged unit to get money and just buy a new one (or in case of armadas even more), was maaaaaybe not an intented feature for a multiplayer capable game.
Shows that their focus is towards multiplayer and we can forget about ever getting a decent singleplayer AI.

 

[baturinsky]

I like these:

* Units may no longer be deleted when they are damaged.

* Deleting a unit no longer provides gold.

Firaxis is so funny.
What?!? You think it's OP and not well designed that we allowed yall to get half the unit's worth in hammers back when disbanding it, even it if was damaged or had only one of it's charges left?
Ungrateful vermin, don't you realize how aggravating and stressful game design is?
Tell you what, we'll make you wait until a unit is fully healed before you can disband it. And then you STILL won't get even a single coin out of it!
How do you like that, suckers?!?
Not STFU, or we'll make you pay for the privilege of disbanding.

Tomyris could make horsies for quarter the price, maybe even less, and then sell them for half. And disbanding damaged units is like no-effort DoTA2 denying - it leaves enemy without kill exp.

 

[rezaf]

I agree with both of you, but a) I don't care about MP Civ cause I'll not have time for such shenanigans before I retire in a gazillion years and b) I have no problems if a player engages in annoying, labor intensive exploitation of game mechanics in SP is rewarded for his trouble (he has no right to complain about the exploit anyway if he choses to use it).

It's weird to watch those clueless pseudo-gamedesigners Firaxis employs these days fumble around for years and years coming up with half-arsed attempts to fix problems that never really existed causing new issues in the process and then trying to fix those with new ideas that cause new problems and so on and so forth. Sid had the problems most plaguing the design these days solved in Civ1 or by Civ2 the latest.

 

[spectre]

It's pretty laughable, instead of seeing there something wrong in getting two units for the price of one, let's fuck with civics and disbanding, stuff that applies to all other civilizations.
And getting gold for disbanding units never made much sense for me tbh.

 

[Mr. Pink]

I like these:

* Units may no longer be deleted when they are damaged.

* Deleting a unit no longer provides gold.

Firaxis is so funny.
What?!? You think it's OP and not well designed that we allowed yall to get half the unit's worth in hammers back when disbanding it, even it if was damaged or had only one of it's charges left?
Ungrateful vermin, don't you realize how aggravating and stressful game design is?
Tell you what, we'll make you wait until a unit is fully healed before you can disband it. And then you STILL won't get even a single coin out of it!
How do you like that, suckers?!?
Not STFU, or we'll make you pay for the privilege of disbanding.

disbanding units for a gold refund was never viable in civ. the amount of gold you got from disbanding in 4 and 5 were negligible. although i also suspect firaxis removed the feature because they knew they were too incompetent to balance it, it wasn't a good idea to begin with.

the gold you save from unit maintenance is already a good reason to disband idle units. no need for a partial cash refund.