CKII is released.

[Sranchammer]

So how do I play Zoroastrians in the 867 without swearing fealty to Muslims? I want to form the Persian Empire.

Swear fealty to the Muslims

 

[RK47]

Well that was a fun detour.
Remember the prompt after successful crusade and the game asks if you want to switch ruler... (often smaller) in one of the newly installed crusader states?
I accidentally clicked one of those in Ironman.
Cue rage as I lost my King status and 60+income with 3 great works on the way for a single inland county cousin in the middle of Galicia.
I nearly ragequit.
But 100 years later after a devoted crusading and a war chest reward of 9,000 gold I fabricated my liege duke's title, hired 10,000 mercs and took him out, followed by usurping the king of Galicia in a space of 2 years.

Then I hammered down on my vassal counts one by one and successfully married my lesbian queen to my former same-dynasty King of Arles.
Had 2 sons from that, they both died from some plague but not before one of them had a grandson.

And so after nearly 150 years, I have returned to ruling not one but two Kingdom.
Long live King Mendo of Arles and Galicia.

And I still raged cause the AI gave away 2 great works to fucking vassals.
There will be reckoning I say!

 

[Fedora Master]

So how do I play Zoroastrians in the 867 without swearing fealty to Muslims? I want to form the Persian Empire.

Pick a horde and convert via marriage, that's EZ mode. Works for Zun too.

 

[Average Manatee]

So how do I play Zoroastrians in the 867 without swearing fealty to Muslims? I want to form the Persian Empire.

If you can pull off a good holy war or two early on you should be OK-ish as long as you are a bit lucky and the Abbasids don't expand well. Offensive Holy wars get very risky though since the longer it takes the more of the muslimtide that will eventually be joining in to dogpile you. In this case once your event stack troops are used up extorting tribute can be a good way to both profit and force some weaker muslims to ally with you. Maximize your demesne and martial as usual and keep at least 1.5k in the bank in case you need to merc up. Send your chancellor to improve relations at the Abbasid's capital and select the caliph as your character to sway.

Also look up the conditions for activating Jihads on the wiki and avoid those at all costs until you're really strong.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I don't have the DLC that allows you to extort tribute though. Don't you need Jade Dragon for that?

 

[Fedora Master]

Uhoh.

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't have the DLC that allows you to extort tribute though. Don't you need Jade Dragon for that?

According to wiki Extort Tribute is Horse Lords while Establish Tributary State (the crappy version that doesn't let you call them to war) is Jade Dragon.

Aside from that the only way to get a CB that doesn't let them call in every muslim on the continent would be fabricated claims.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Well shit, I guess I have to fabricate claims and hope for the best.
The only target I can safely holy war is some Shia scrub, but I don't have the prestige to break truce and blitz him again. I wanted to form the Kingdom of Daylum to serve as a starting point, but there's 2 enemy kingdoms near by and the land I need to form the kingdom is held by Sunnis.

Do high relations really affect holy war intervention? I've read that if you have high relations with the Abbasids they won't intervene if you attack Sunnis.

 

[Mikeal]

 

[Average Manatee]

Well shit, I guess I have to fabricate claims and hope for the best.
The only target I can safely holy war is some Shia scrub, but I don't have the prestige to break truce and blitz him again. I wanted to form the Kingdom of Daylum to serve as a starting point, but there's 2 enemy kingdoms near by and the land I need to form the kingdom is held by Sunnis.

Do high relations really affect holy war intervention? I've read that if you have high relations with the Abbasids they won't intervene if you attack Sunnis.

Very good relations should help avoid both holy war intervention and lower the chance of them directly declaring war on you. A good chancellor should be able to stack up multiple opinion improvements at a time. Nothing is entirely guaranteed though, and of course you can't fabricate claims in the meantime.

Once you have a decent power base and are sufficiently rich you can try buying favors from muslims who like you and using that to force marriages (only not their heir and can't force a matrilineal) or invite courtiers to your court. From there you can press their claims or ensure their claims are inherited by yourself before pressing them. So about 1k ducats for a claim and another 4-5k for mercs and you can directly take over the Abbasid empire yourself. It's not a holy war either so all you need is to beat the Abbasid army and assault enough counties before going broke.

 

[Preben]

So how do I play Zoroastrians in the 867 without swearing fealty to Muslims? I want to form the Persian Empire.

Unironically, swear fealty to Muslims and eat them up from inside. Or restart the game 1000 times until your Muslim neighbors somehow collapse before they stomp you out of existence.

 

[Fedora Master]

I would have been pissed if the guy HADN'T been declared a saint. LOOK AT HIM.

 

[dehimos]

11 children and he is a saint, I chose the wrong religion.

 

[Fedora Master]

11 children and he is a saint, I chose the wrong religion.

Can I interest you in the Good Word of Joseph Smith?

e:

 

[RK47]

Survived an attempt to install another claimant as their King of Arles.

My 16-year-old king slowly beat back the 20,000-strong rebels that are split between England and Europe.
Hiring 14k strong mercs with Martial 26 captain proved to be the biggest turnaround, at one point I nearly expelled Jews to get enough coin to pay them back, but the Great Harbor and halved retinue reinforce rate manage to keep income at positive.

Hmm... I think I know why.

By the time I destroyed half of them, they've taken half of my holding in England and that kept war score at 0%.
Luckily, no major Muslim powers holy warred me at this moment of vulnerability.
Once I'm satisfied their European army is done for, I sailed to England n smashed all their stacks.
The rebels immediately declared white peace and everyone is in net positive opinion.

Business as usual.
Or is it?

Wah, Byzantine Orthodox took Rome?
Is this good or bad for Catholics?

 

[Fedora Master]

Bad. It tanks authority which means endless heresy revolts. And I mean endless.

 

[RK47]

Uh... no?

 

[Fedora Master]

RIP Europe.

 

[RK47]

I never seen a single AI build hospitals. Amazing survival plan really.

I'm also this close to executing my third child because his second brother got the kingdom of Andalusia from crusades.

 

[Fedora Master]

I had one in Genoa (that the AI built) but it didn't have any upgrades by the time I inherited the county. I think the AI is very stingy with its money and only upgrades stuff when it has a large war chest but since the feudal holdings are all shit for taxes they never get that far. Republics are a little better about it.

e:

 

[Average Manatee]

Considering how expensive hospitals are its probably correct for the AI not to build them. Low level hospitals don't even do much, and unless you can guarantee keeping the same capital till the end of the game its easy for the investment to be entirely wasted money.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, if you want hospitals to actually do something you need to pay 700 for it. And even then the effect is pathetic. Paradox did not balance them right.

 

[Fedora Master]

I wouldn't say useless. A moderately upgraded hospital CAN prevent regular diseases from spreading to that county. I've had it happen. Certainly easier than cowering behind your walls every six months. As has been said, the biggest issue is the constant de jure territory switching.

I've been playing a republic and holy shit it's bad. Real bad. And buggy.

 

[RK47]

Yes, counts will have issues, but I'd expect Dukes and Kings to have them.
I think you only need it in your county capital to protect your family when you shut your gates right?
So if you spend like 2-4 generations upgrading and focusing on disease resistance only stuff to offset the prosperity debuff, it doesn't hurt.

I'm pleased with my second son. He has acquired the Kingdom of Andalusia and became a Crusader King.

Alas, his older brother could not emulate his greatness.
During a plague of slow fever, the fool risked death to the court by bringing in his lowborn lover!

Spoiler

With this display of stupidity, I am convinced more than ever that my firstborn is incapable of rulership. With the Primogeniture Law in the Kingdom of Galacia in effect, he will inherit that small parcel of land in Portugal... if I give him the chance to do so.

A chance too great to take. The thirdborn is also doing badly. Bad news for the Kingdom of Arles, their future king is too honest to a fault.

He will not have the mettle to survive the intrigue. I sent him to his older brother in Andalusia, hoping the Crusader King will bring his brother on a hunting trip. And then we'll see what happens from there.

A slight surprise when I saw the Arabic seal being used in my secondborn's letter.

Andalusia has changed him. Alas, but I cannot back down. He has the Prestige to hold the kingdom together, despite what the cultural differences may be with the vassals of Arles.

A few years later, Prince Oshere returns to my court. He is found wanting. Despite his magnetic charisma, the boy is a craven wastrel and he even questions God. It's time we have a father and son chat at the Royal Garden of York.

...where I fed him a dagger sandwich.

Fool, beaten by a man twice his age. (LOL bugged pop up message. King Mendo won, so ... yeah)

Just as planned now to exercise self-control and not fuck the wife too much.

Oh, for fuck's sake. I'm only 40 years old! One more loose end. The firstborn.

No dagger is needed, a newly conquered Mosque will be his land from now on. He can fuck all the lowborn he wants there. All the loose strings are tied. I can go now.

The King is dead, long live the Sultan.

Deus vult.

 

[Average Manatee]

But you can also just hire a good doctor that likes you and have a ~98% chance of a good treatment if you select a well tested one. Hospital doesn't do shit to protect you from the actual bad stuff like Black Death or random Cancer.