Game News Colony Ship RPG Update #11: Systems Overview

[cucrophi]

"Atheist and Libertarian are skills now? Cool, sounds like this is going to be basically ”reddit, the RPG”."
l2r...
also all of them are arbitrary character strings assigned an integer value that gets checked in arbitrary places

true believer sounds gay though
zealot!

 

[Vault Dweller]

Atheist and Libertarian are skills now? Cool, sounds like this is going to be basically ”reddit, the RPG”.

Is that what it says?

 

[Eyestabber]

Atheist and Libertarian are skills now? Cool, sounds like this is going to be basically ”reddit, the RPG”.

Combine full atheist with full libertarian beliefs, add points to the blade skill and do a full charisma dump and you have...

 

[Mac_Orion]

I like where this is going.

Only the belief system i do find weird somehow, isn't your belief defined through your actions and words instead of your base statistics, if through your actions those stats are defined I find it a good system.

I do like the UI, nice and clean

 

[Vault Dweller]

Only the belief system i do find weird somehow, isn't your belief defined through your actions and words instead of your base statistics, if through your actions those stats are defined I find it a good system.

Like all reputation stats, your beliefs are defined by your words and deeds. They are displayed on the character screen along with the attributes and skills.

 

[Leechmonger]

Instead of counting how many times you did something, we’ll assign a certain value (let’s call it learning points) to each activity (attacking, killing, fixing, sneaking, convincing, lying, etc). So killing a tough enemy or repairing a reactor will net you more points than killing a weakling or fixing a toaster.

I have always wanted this. My only worry is that it will still be susceptible to Elder Scrolls-style grinding of skills if there are sources of infinite XP opportunities (respawning enemies for fighting skills). The most elegant way of dealing with this is to have each level of a skill stop accepting XP points below a certain threshold. So once your melee skill is good enough you can no longer improve it by punching weak enemies, regardless of type. This is better than capping the XP the player gets from each source (type of enemy for fighting skills), because players don't have to grind out the caps for each source (I've killed 10/10 rats, time to kill 10/10 mutants). You've probably already thought of this.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Instead of counting how many times you did something, we’ll assign a certain value (let’s call it learning points) to each activity (attacking, killing, fixing, sneaking, convincing, lying, etc). So killing a tough enemy or repairing a reactor will net you more points than killing a weakling or fixing a toaster.

I have always wanted this. My only worry is that it will still be susceptible to Elder Scrolls-style grinding of skills if there are sources of infinite XP opportunities (respawning enemies for fighting skills).

There won't be.

The most elegant way of dealing with this is to have each level of a skill stop accepting XP points below a certain threshold. So once your melee skill is good enough you can no longer improve it by punching weak enemies, regardless of type.

There won't be weak enemies either.

 

[Jaedar]

Don't really like the game tracking beleifs. Never seen it actually work well. I always wind up picking the tagged options(i.e., put me on autopilot) or it doesn't reflect what I felt my character meant. Reputation is fine, and I'd be fine if the game tracked how much other people thought I was a theist, but I dislike mind reading.

As for learn by use, I fear getting pigeonholed into an archetype and not being able to build my character as I want. Not sure that's worse than trap skills like aod etiquette though.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Reputation is fine, and I'd be fine if the game tracked how much other people thought I was a theist, but I dislike mind reading.

Two posts up:

Like all reputation stats, your beliefs are defined by your words and deeds.

 

[Aenra]

(if this has been covered, someone be kind enough to post me a link)

- Will there be some way for us to know when/how much until we've reached a skill cap? Don't think of 'cap' as a number per se, may well be a 'cap' within said level of the spaceship (ie what's expected of us)
- System here being learn-by-doing, what limitations do we have in individual skill growth?

Why am i asking? Classic system, i get. I go for (example) SMGs and a bit of science and tech; no probs. Always a point in SMGs, capped for my current level, the other two i spread, or save if not enough to increase both auxiliaries together.
With this system though.. how am i gonna plan ahead?

I fear two scenarios:
a) (and it's an RPG, i'm entitled my OCD) i refrain from using 'x' secondary skill as much as i'd like to, in fear of the consequences it may have on my overall character build/direction/PC reaction to me
b) i end up limiting myself in how i approach things because learn by use often amounts to "you've been using your SMG too much, why would you ever expect to be handy with tech? Fuck you"

 

[Leechmonger]

There won't be.

There won't be weak enemies either.

Excellent, thanks.

Like all reputation stats, your beliefs are defined by your words and deeds.

What if you choose to lie about your beliefs in order to gain someone's favor? Will pretending to be pious to get something from a religious group alienate an atheist faction, for example? More specifically, does the atheist faction have to learn of your stated (false) beliefs in order to dislike you (instead of magically knowing what you discussed with someone else), and if so can you reveal to them your deception?

 

[Jaedar]

Like all reputation stats, your beliefs are defined by your words and deeds.

Perhaps. I might still do/say something purely for my own benefit, doesn't make me an authoritarian. Also not sold on the concept that this will somehow make my name known throughout the ship as some great wannabe dictator...

Or perhaps it will work more as "your reputation among group x of people (united by opinion, not faction)"?

 

[Vault Dweller]

- Will there be some way for us to know when/how much until we've reached a skill cap? Don't think of 'cap' as a number per se, may well be a 'cap' within said level of the spaceship (ie what's expected of us)
- System here being learn-by-doing, what limitations do we have in individual skill growth?

1-10 for non-combat skills, 1-20 for combat skills (10-20 are grandmaster levels and most players wouldn't hit more than 11-12 at best). If that's what you are asking.

Why am i asking? Classic system, i get. I go for (example) SMGs and a bit of science and tech; no probs. Always a point in SMGs, capped for my current level, the other two i spread, or save if not enough to increase both auxiliaries together.
With this system though.. how am i gonna plan ahead?

That's easy. You don't really plan ahead but react to the scenarios offered by the game and use the skills you want to develop. In some cases you'd have to choose (do I kill these thugs or talk to them?), in other cases you just make a small effort (i.e. you're asked to repair an air purifier, if you want to develop your science and tech skills, accept the quest, otherwise skip it).

b) i end up limiting myself in how i approach things because learn by use often amounts to "you've been using your SMG too much, why would you ever expect to be handy with tech? Fuck you"

That's not our design goal at all.

What if you choose to lie about your beliefs in order to gain someone's favor? Will pretending to be pious to get something from a religious group alienate an atheist faction, for example? More specifically, does the atheist faction have to learn of your stated (false) beliefs in order to dislike you (instead of magically knowing what you discussed with someone else), and if so can you reveal to them your deception?

Perhaps. I might still do/say something purely for my own benefit, doesn't make me an authoritarian.

First, these are reputation stats that show what people think of you. So if you pretend to be a liberal often enough, people will start thinking that you're a liberal. Second, our design is more deeds-oriented and things you say won't matter as much as the things you do. So if you side with the Church and start purging heresy left and right, it won't matter if you do it for religious reasons or for shit n giggles.

Also not sold on the concept that this will somehow make my name known throughout the ship as some great wannabe dictator...

It's not a big wide world but a ship. Once you make a deal with a faction (fairly early in the game), you'll get on everyone's radar and they will start paying attention to what you say and do. See the update about the main quest.

 

[agris]

In this system, can I (as an example) sneak past two guards, get the sneak LPs, then immediately turn around and fight them to get the combat LPs?

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's too early to talk specifics as the answer to your question will be determined by balance and specific design. Obviously getting past an obstacle one way, then turning around and trying to milk it for more XP is a time-honored exploit and you shouldn't be able to do it. At the same time you should be able to reconsider where applicable and combining stealth and combat should be allowed and encouraged.

In one of the early quests, for example, you'd have to protect a store against some hired thugs. You can kill them or you can convince them to leave and gain more info in the process. If you talk to them, they leave while in dialogue mode, so you won't be able to start shooting the moment you shake hands.

 

[Morality Games]

It's too early to talk specifics as the answer to your question will be determined by balance and specific design. Obviously getting past an obstacle one way, then turning around and trying to milk it for more XP is a time-honored exploit and you shouldn't be able to do it. At the same time you should be able to reconsider where applicable and combining stealth and combat should be allowed and encouraged.

In one of the early quests, for example, you'd have to protect a store against some hired thugs. You can kill them or you can convince them to leave and gain more info in the process. If you talk to them, they leave while in dialogue mode, so you won't be able to start shooting the moment you shake hands.

However, players who do that aren't always motivated by the desire for experience or loot. Sometimes they are role playing a character who makes a deal and then stabs the person as soon as they have their back turned.

I always appreciated about PS:T how Vow and Lie often used the same line of dialogue interchangeably.

 

[Irenaeus]

I guess you are not familiar with AoD's teleportation system. Pick a choice and live by it.

 

[cucrophi]

There won't be weak enemies either.

I finished AoD with 180 skill points left.

 

[Morality Games]

I don't role play characters like that (good or evil, my characters are rarely chaotic), and I wasn't trying to inform the design choices of this game specifically (when AoD is accused of being a CYOA which by reputation force you to make absolute choices).

Just pointing out that reducing agency and freedom for the sake of a tighter narrative with more focused consequences comes at a cost, and influences the way the game feels. In Fallout, when an enemy turns their back after a deal (often breaking formation to something much easier to manage or at least putting themselves in range of a sniper rifle), the player can think, "Oh, gee. I was gong to let you live, but you turned your back..."

The ability to pull these kind of stunts is one reason why people say Morrowind is good and Skyrim (which won't let you kill story important NPCs until the critical moment) is bad.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Will your companions' beliefs be visible on their character screens?

 

[Infinitron]

Obviously getting past an obstacle one way, then turning around and trying to milk it for more XP is a time-honored exploit and you shouldn't be able to do it.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't role play characters like that (good or evil, my characters are rarely chaotic), and I wasn't trying to inform the design choices of this game specifically (when AoD is accused of being a CYOA which by reputation force you to make absolute choices).

Just pointing out that reducing agency and freedom for the sake of a tighter narrative with more focused consequences comes at a cost, and influences the way the game feels. In Fallout, when an enemy turns their back after a deal (often breaking formation to something much easier to manage or at least putting themselves in range of a sniper rifle), the player can think, "Oh, gee. I was gong to let you live, but you turned your back..."

The ability to pull these kind of stunts is one reason why people say Morrowind is good and Skyrim (which won't let you kill story important NPCs until the critical moment) is bad.

It really depends on the design. In AoD you make a deal with the raiders because you can't kill them and it's the only way to solve the quest for you. In Fallout there was a brief moment when you were weak and then you quickly became godlike and could wipe out entire towns if you wished to.

 

[Tigranes]

Prediction for the future: instead of teleporting and point hoarding, Steam reviewers complain zestily about how CSG doesn't give you choices because you end up playing a character that your actions reflect as opposed to Drij'jit the Dual Wielding Heroe you masturbated to before firing up character screen

 

[himmy]

Atheist and Libertarian are skills now? Cool, sounds like this is going to be basically ”reddit, the RPG”.

Is that what it says?

No, I was being facetious for (alleged) comedic effects.

 

[Goral]

you're asked to repair an air purifier, if you want to develop your science and tech skills, accept the quest, otherwise skip it

Why would I want to skip it? Free XP right? Or will I be able to repair it later (which would be against the AoD policy where if you refuse a job they usually find someone else to do it) once I have a follower with me (and let him do it for example)?

It's too early to talk specifics as the answer to your question will be determined by balance and specific design. Obviously getting past an obstacle one way, then turning around and trying to milk it for more XP is a time-honored exploit and you shouldn't be able to do it. At the same time you should be able to reconsider where applicable and combining stealth and combat should be allowed and encouraged.

You gave an example in one of your earlier posts that that you can either sneak in and fight the army while you try to sneak out or successfully sneak in and out (unless I'm misinterpreting here). But I don't see a reason why I couldn't start a fight once I successfully sneak out, that's my choice, maybe I like the challenge. It wouldn't be a problem later in the game maybe (you could gate content and make the fight impossible for ninjas who had to take the sneaking route all the time instead of fighting) but not so much early in the game. Unless we would assign some points during creation which would give us advantage in one of the skills and we would need to follow it. But during the early stages opponents shouldn't be that tough so why not sneak past them and then kill them to milk the XP (learning points)? I can see the same problem for the standard XP system but this "exploit" is logical. If you're doing something you are gaining experience and you are getting better (up to a point).

Edit:
This could be resolved by reputation penalty and some retaliation which could be too much too handle for a ninja/warrior hybrid.

You can kill them or you can convince them to leave and gain more info in the process. If you talk to them, they leave while in dialogue mode, so you won't be able to start shooting the moment you shake hands.

See above. Why not? That's the moment they have lowered their guard and best moment to attack. Or shoot them in the back. The consequence could be some huge reputation penalty (but that's assuming that someone would manage to escape to talk about it).

However, players who do that aren't always motivated by the desire for experience or loot. Sometimes they are role playing a character who makes a deal and then stabs the person as soon as they have their back turned.

Exactly. Although killing someone who wanted to extort you seems justified and should give you XP.

I guess you are not familiar with AoD's teleportation system. Pick a choice and live by it.

In AoD you make a deal with the raiders because you can't kill them and it's the only way to solve the quest for you. In Fallout there was a brief moment when you were weak and then you quickly became godlike and could wipe out entire towns if you wished to.

It wasn't that much of a problem in AoD because here you didn't have enough SP to be sneaky enough and tough enough at the same time, especially at the start. With a learn by use system though why wouldn't you use every opportunity to learn? If it would turn out that I'm sneaky enough and tough enough (my skills would reflect that) I could want to risk fighting the thugs for their loot/territory/something else for example.

I probably won't have much of a problem turning a blind eye on this but Tigrane's prediction may be right. And it may even result in many more negative reviews than for AoD XP/SP system.