Game News Colony Ship RPG Update #5: Making a New RPG, Combat and Stealth

[vivec]

Lets say I stealth and get detected. Am I now always worse off compared to a straight approach?

I certainly hope so.

This reply needs love.

Yes, you are worse off if you get into middle of things without the preparation that you decided to give up because you wanted to be stealthy.

 

[Excidium II]

It's not a blobber, it's isometric.

It's not isometric, it's perspective projection.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Dude, you should stop correcting people considering you believed Divine Divinity to be true isometric.

 

[Excidium II]

Divine Divinity is Cavalier iirc. Honest mistake. Confusing between parallel projections is more tolerable since nobody walks around with a protractor.

 

[HoboForEternity]

In general, there are thousands of freelance artists on the net. I don't think it's an easy way to make a living. Sure, it's great when you're established and have more clients than you can handle, but any trade is great when you're one of the top guys in your field. It's a great to be a NHL player but they draft one guy out of many thousands of hopeful who spent years training and playing junior teams hoping to get drafted.

i see. guess i shouldn't make assumption without some kind of actual research lol. at least i heard from friends and trough grapevine in campus that alot of fresh graduates find a hard time finding stable jobs, and free-lancing is really a damn hard thing to do you in the long term, and make a living. i mean, one week you could get many offers, but you can be jobless for weeks too. my source of income atm is freelance photographer / video editor, and i get most jobs from connections, and unless i am strapped, i never seek out for jobs. i usually get 1-6 comissions per month, and get paids $25-$30/job. for someone who still live with his parents, so far my income are only used for non-vital stuff like hobbies or non-immediate needs or just stored away in banks. but if it's really for a living, it can be a pain in the ass. if i really don't have a job, i would just cut down spending on videogames and eat at cheap place with friends, do economically conservative stuff for fun (like co-op game night instead of a bar, etc)

anyway, that was just a random thought, but i do dream of having my own business one day, so i constantly think of random idea that might or might not take off.

 

[Parsifarka]

It's not a blobber, it's isometric.

Really? When I read dungeon crawler I immediately thought in Wizardry. I shall keep waiting for Grimoire then.

 

[felipepepe]

I've been living out of freelance video-editing / motion graphics (and teaching) for almost 4 years now, and it's pretty exhausting...

Sure, on average I work only like 10-15 days per month, which is great. And since I'm pretty experienced, I do get paid well. But all those other days aren't (just) shitposting on the Codex, sleeping and derping around - you're constantly on the lookout for work, visiting or calling people to "network", worried about the economical crisis, studying at home, doing boring shit that pays little, etc...

And the inconsistency kills anyone. In my first year as freelancer, I scored like 5 consecutive months of frequent, well-paid work. I was riding on cash, traveled, bought a PS3, gave money to every kickstarter I thought cool, etc. Then the market shifted... and I couldn't land a single good contract for 4 months. First month is "forced vacations, lol!", second one gets uncomfortable, third one you're desperately hitting all your contacts, at the fourth you've cut all expenses, learned how live by cooking the cheapest stuff on the supermarket every day and are depressed on how you failed and will probably need to move back to the country-side. (Luckily, I've endured it).

Then there's shit like insane crunches, egotrips, stress, lack of benefits, kids trying to break in by selling their work for 1/10 of the price, shady companies asking for you to pirate stuff, delayed payments, etc... seriously, I'd say only about half of my employers paid on time. All the others involved delays, countless phone calls & emails, personal visits, legal threats, bounced checks...

Once myself and three other freelancers only got paid over $1500 after weeks of delay because one of the guys threatened to key the expensive car of the manager. Freelancers have no one to stand for them, they are always the weakest link of a chain, and any financial issue the project has will always hit them.

I'm thankful for the money I made, but I'm extremely eager to leave that life behind next month.

 

[Endlösung]

Lets say I stealth and get detected. Am I now always worse off compared to a straight approach?

I certainly hope so.

This reply needs love.
Yes, you are worse off if you get into middle of things without the preparation that you decided to give up because you wanted to be stealthy.

I cant decipher this shit. Is this some kind of appeal to simulationism? Hang yourself potato.

 

[Excidium II]

I've been living out of freelance video-editing / motion graphics (and teaching) for almost 4 years now, and it's pretty exhausting...

Sure, on average I work only like 10-15 days per month, which is great. And since I'm pretty experienced, I do get paid well. But all those other days aren't (just) shitposting on the Codex, sleeping and derping around - you're constantly on the lookout for work, visiting or calling people to "network", worried about the economical crisis, studying at home, doing boring shit that pays little, etc...

And the inconsistency kills anyone. In my first year as freelancer, I scored like 5 consecutive months of frequent, well-paid work. I was riding on cash, traveled, bought a PS3, gave money to every kickstarter I thought cool, etc. Then the market shifted... and I couldn't land a single good contract for 4 months. First month is "forced vacations, lol!", second one gets uncomfortable, third one you're desperately hitting all your contacts, at the fourth you've cut all expenses, learned how live by cooking the cheapest stuff on the supermarket every day and are depressed on how you failed and will probably need to move back to the country-side. (Luckily, I've endured it).

Then there's shit like insane crunches, egotrips, stress, lack of benefits, kids trying to break in by selling their work for 1/10 of the price, shady companies asking for you to pirate stuff, delayed payments, etc... seriously, I'd say only about half of my employers paid on time. All the others involved delays, countless phone calls & emails, personal visits, legal threats, bounced checks...

Once myself and three other freelancers only got paid over $1500 after weeks of delay because one of the guys threatened to key the expensive car of the manager. Freelancers have no one to stand for them, they are always the weakest link of a chain, and any financial issue the project has will always hit them.

I'm thankful for the money I made, but I'm extremely eager to leave that life behind next month.

Why do you live in são paulo though, wouldn't you be better off somewhere without insane living costs, since you freelance anyway?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Lets say I stealth and get detected. Am I now always worse off compared to a straight approach?

I certainly hope so.

This reply needs love.
Yes, you are worse off if you get into middle of things without the preparation that you decided to give up because you wanted to be stealthy.

I cant decipher this shit. Is this some kind of appeal to simulationism? Hang yourself potato.

Here is a situation from the game (we've been designing it with stealth in mind from day one to ensure that stealth is a viable path through the game, much like combat and talking are in AoD). You may need a certain item (officer's implants that were 'buried' with the officer who is now one of the 'saints' of the religious faction). To gain access to the chamber where the bodies are stored, waiting to be properly buried when the ship arrives, you need either to ally with this faction and have very high rep, or to fight your way through which should be a very challenging fight for obvious reasons (think fighting your way into Vatican) or sneak inside. So if you're caught desecrating the bodies and stealing what they consider their holy relics, do you think they'd understand that you had rough childhood and let you go? I don't think so.

So you'd be alone, surrounded by enemies (instead of slowly fighting your way through with your buddies), as good as dead. If you attract too much attention you'd be given a chance to escape (to avoid reloading) but this door will be closed for good.

 

[Excidium II]

So what's the appeal of the stealthy approach? The other two seem less risky and award the player with more content.

 

[felipepepe]

Why do you live in são paulo though, wouldn't you be better off somewhere without insane living costs, since you freelance anyway?

I rarely work from home, most of my contracts I go to an ad agency or video company and do their bidding for a week or so (usually after someone screwed up).

And even when I work from home, I usually first have to attend some boring briefings as "the tech guy", or show the final product to suits in marketing meetings. Those remote-only gigs where you download the raw footage, edit in your underwear eating pizza, send it to an e-mail address and get monies in your account are extremely are - and usually pay very little, because they could be done by the guy in Indonesia as well.

Real money in this area comes from being "the guy", with a certain weight, reputation and presence. Which is why people form guilds art studios like Massive Black. Random usernames on the interwebs aren't paid shit.

 

[Excidium II]

Real money in this area comes from being "the guy", with a certain weight, reputation and presence. Which is why people form guilds art studios like Massive Black. Random usernames on the interwebs aren't paid shit.

Unless they do furry OC, $50 just for line art.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So what's the appeal of the stealthy approach? The other two seem less risky and award the player with more content.

The first path is less risky but it requires some major concessions and force you to make choices you may not want to make. It's a good path if you role-play a Jesus freak, but it's not for everyone. The combat path is the most rewarding in terms of loot, but it has major consequences and it's the hardest path. Not every crew would be able to pull it off. You'd need the right people which will cost you (see update #2) and the right gear, especially the gadgets. In terms of difficulty, no more than 15% of all players would be able to do it.

It'd be easier if you have a good 'infiltrator' with the right gear. I'd say 70% should be able to do it. As for what's the appeal, for me it's being able to play a different type a character who has a different path through the game.

 

[Shadenuat]

if you hire a good concept artist, you'll pay him 60-80k, if not 80-100k.

Outsource to SNG, China, Korea & Vietnam
I heard one of Banner Saga artists comes from a village near Rostov


As for work being work, well, news at 11
I on purpose missed opportunity for work in sales in the company that represents Games Workshop (Warhammer) in Russia, because I was afraid I would begin hating things that I love (rpgs, pnp, painting); went to other random sales company just because I knew I would love to hate it

 

[Excidium II]

Outsource to SNG, China, Korea & Vietnam

Like Obsidian did with PoE.

So what's the appeal of the stealthy approach? The other two seem less risky and award the player with more content.

The first path is less risky but it requires some major concessions and force you to make choices you may not want to make. It's a good path if you role-play a Jesus freak, but it's not for everyone. The combat path is the most rewarding in terms of loot, but it has major consequences and it's the hardest path. Not every crew would be able to pull it off. You'd need the right people which will cost you (see update #2) and the right gear, especially the gadgets. In terms of difficulty, no more than 15% of all players would be able to do it.

It'd be easier if you have a good 'infiltrator' with the right gear. I'd say 70% should be able to do it. As for what's the appeal, for me it's being able to play a different type a character who has a different path through the game.

I wanna read more about the stealth mechanics. And the general mechanics too, specifically the randomness of the system. Stealth tends to be a death sentence in RPGs since all you need is one bad roll.

 

[Shadenuat]

Like Obsidian did with PoE.

Judging by result it would have been a good idea to outsource PoE roleplaying system too

 

[Vault Dweller]

I wanna read more about the stealth mechanics. And the general mechanics too, specifically the randomness of the system. Stealth tends to be a death sentence in RPGs since all you need is one bad roll.

No rolls outside of combat (at least not now), so your bad luck will be limited to combat. For stealth we want you to use different skills (a single skill should never be enough to go through the game), which requires different challenge types: guards to avoid, automated detection systems to disable or jam with gadgets, locks and computers to interact with. A 'stealth boy' gadget would make it easier to sneak but more likely to be detected by the systems. Low Computers or Lockpicking skills would generate more disturbance and make the guards more suspicious, increasing their detection radius and making it harder to sneak. Etc.

We'll take another look at the RNG but overall, if your skills are low, combat should feel random. If your skills are high, they should be able to negate unlucky rolls, which is what Eyestabber's exploits proved.

 

[Excidium II]

Sounds good.

 

[HoboForEternity]

So stealth is actual mechanics instead of CYOA skill check? Is it part of the combat (like enter turn based mode, and all) or done in real time? Aka sneaking in divinity OS

 

[FeelTheRads]

Divine Divinity is Cavalier iirc. Honest mistake. Confusing between parallel projections is more tolerable since nobody walks around with a protractor.

Nope. Shame.

When you see an axis parallel to the edge of the screen you know it's not true isometric.

Shame.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So stealth is actual mechanics instead of CYOA skill check? Is it part of the combat (like enter turn based mode, and all) or done in real time?

Actual mechanics, turn-based. You move/act during your turn, the guards and systems (if any) move/act during their turn. As with combat, the trick is to survive (or remain undetected) during the enemy's turn.

 

[Kev Inkline]

First month is "forced vacations, lol!", second one gets uncomfortable, third one you're desperately hitting all your contacts, at the fourth you've cut all expenses, learned how live by cooking the cheapest stuff on the supermarket every day and are depressed on how you failed and will probably need to move back to the country-side. (Luckily, I've endured it).
...
Then there's shit like insane crunches, egotrips, stress, lack of benefits, kids trying to break in by selling their work for 1/10 of the price, shady companies asking for you to pirate stuff, delayed payments, etc... seriously, I'd say only about half of my employers paid on time. All the others involved delays, countless phone calls & emails, personal visits, legal threats, bounced checks...

A quote from CRPG-book FAQ:

the .pdf will be 100% free, and the printed version will be sold at cost price. The only thing I'll do is maybe set up a donation paypal, for those that want to pay me a beer.

Dude...Sounds to me that it'd be fair and square if you setup that paypal...
.

 

[vivec]

I wanna read more about the stealth mechanics. And the general mechanics too, specifically the randomness of the system. Stealth tends to be a death sentence in RPGs since all you need is one bad roll.

No rolls outside of combat (at least not now), so your bad luck will be limited to combat. For stealth we want you to use different skills (a single skill should never be enough to go through the game), which requires different challenge types: guards to avoid, automated detection systems to disable or jam with gadgets, locks and computers to interact with. A 'stealth boy' gadget would make it easier to sneak but more likely to be detected by the systems. Low Computers or Lockpicking skills would generate more disturbance and make the guards more suspicious, increasing their detection radius and making it harder to sneak. Etc.

We'll take another look at the RNG but overall, if your skills are low, combat should feel random. If your skills are high, they should be able to negate unlucky rolls, which is what Eyestabber's exploits proved.

This is the only right way to go in a computer game where save-reload should not be a factor outside of combat.

I have never understood the save-scumming argument. People assume that save-reloading is bad in combat. The reality is that is that it is resoundingly not. Combat probability is a part of the fun. However, in non-combat parts save-reload should be avoided as this is the part that really concerns the C&C in the game. Here, the results should come from the build and previous decisions.

This is why I love ITS so much. You guys rock.

 

[felipepepe]

Dude...Sounds to me that it'd be fair and square if you setup that paypal...

Thanks, but only when it's done. I don't want people to pay me for working on the book, even as a kind beer gift. It's a hobby, I don't want to owe anyone anything or feel bad for derping around instead of working on the book.

That's what kills most projects like this.... when your hobby becomes work, you need another hobby.