Danikas
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Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]
- Thread starter Azazel
- Start date
Beowulf
Arcane
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Bear in mind, that many dialogue choices in W3 lead to fake branching - i.e. the responses were different, but the outcome of the conversation was the same. You could get some more info about a character at most.
The explained the system in one of the videos about their algorithm for conversation scenes they prepared for some dev conference.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
Except the background dialogue does not bring nothing more to the conversation is just a voiced line of a comment that's it. The skill check over there was not persuasion nor intimidation is just a netrunner a teckie skill check and nother strenght skill check that again add nothing meaningful.
Like i said i seen a longer live of the deep dive video.
Like i said i seen a longer live of the deep dive video.
Prime Junta
Guest
The same way a rogue is different from a fighter in D&D. A rogue can get into places a fighter can't; a fighter can survive a toe-to-toe fight with enemies that would swat a rogue. They need different approaches to solve problems.
The witcher variants OTOH affect combat style only -- you're always stabbing monsters with a sword, the only difference is if you're just a genius swordsman, or buff yourself first, or use a sign to debuff them first. The variants never open up or close down different approaches to quests.
Which is a lot more than the Twitchers do. There is no stealth path nor sabotage path nor any skills to support either. The only thing your build affects is combat style.
Again, already more than the Twitchers, which have no skill/stat/etc checks in dialogues at all.
Can you elaborate a bit about what, exactly, you were expecting? I'm genuinely puzzled. I haven't been surprised by anything they've shown; small details aside it looks just about exactly like what I expected it to be.
Last edited by a moderator:
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
Well back in the day Prime Junta there were blog posts addressing this concerning from the pen and paper fans. The blogpost explained pretty much how they wanted adapt the system in manner that could be enjoyed both from the pen and paper fan and the average gamer. There were plenty of nice idea cd projekt were posting in the forums thing that could had worked really well. Then since the 2016 the preproduction of the game got tossed out of the window and the new prodution started after that total silence and i mean total silence on the project. To then return at gamescon with the first trailer showing that Cyberpunk was a fps with lite roleplay elements with a level progression system coloured tier loot and other things like that.
Many Pen and Paper fan felt that as a betrayal as they got lied blatantly instead the direction of the game moved in your ordinary AAA shoter with rpg elements. People disliked that a lot. Cd projekt started to make damage control in their forum by locking threads that had no reason whatsoever to get locked.
After that they deemed taboo some kind of conversation actively censoring their forum those arguments were. References to the past blogs people not happy with the first person only and mainly thread that were not positive about the game. The censorship is going on even now at the point the forum is basically dead.
Each time a new thread pops up and people started telling things that puts under analysis the decision of development took to make this game it will get locked fast. Meanwhile the moderator Sardukar that is biased to start with declaring himself Cyberpunk fan and at the same time telling the gameplay can be whatever for him because cd projekt red is making it is locking all the negative threads and spammin the forums with useless Poll Thread to keep the dead forum very much alive.
People at the time imagine cyberpunk as an Action/RPG with the ruleset adapted to work in a real time action game. What was done instead was completely tossing the system in favour for a more witcher like level progression based system putting gamey things like double jump and heat seeking bullets that have no place in cyberpunk and also basically reshaping the lore of the setting to make it appeare more PUNK than Cyber.
I have no doubt it will be a successful game or doubt that will not be a nice game per se. But as Cyberpunk game is absolutely dreadful.
Now for who don't know the source material this is perfectly fine. But the pen and paper cyberpunk took in account a lot of things that in Cyberpunk 2077 were removed to "Holding hand" to the player. For example the player character will never experience Cyberpsichosis that is a big part of the cyberpunk setting. We lost the sense of thrill and danger by doing shotouts mundane having a kid protagonist that swearing left and right slide under a storm of bullets taking out a whole army alone.
A solo is not a terminator or rambo. To make you understand what a solo is take Motoko Kusanagi of Ghost in the shell ((the sieries not the movies)) now that is a solo.
There also also mechanics that clash with the settings as well. Like Sandsquatch that apparently she is a witcher and have a potion on her back that makes her immune to bullets. ((such things are vs the spirit of the pen and paper))
The cyberpunk of the pen and paper is a gritty realistic world devoured by Macrocorporation and the people in this world are two stort of people. "Movers" or "Moved".
Usually the protagonists of cyberpunk are "Moved" this means that are just a little tiny pawn in the middle of something far bigger than them. For this caution is something that makes the difference between be a succesfull edge runner or being a golorified corpse.
V instead is a teenage brat acting edging running and gunning. ((the kind of character that in a proper cyberpunk pen and paper session would be dead as soon as he started))
Cyberpunk 2020 was also connected by a Net that was far more vast and dangerous. The net is still present in Cyberpunk 2077 but is hardlocked. Basically now networks are localized by structure. For example a Mall will have their own network that will be isolated from the rest. Is basically a system of isolated clusters.
The Cybernetics in cyberpunk are bound to enhance your body but not going too much in sci-fi ((sorry no laser katanas that shield you from bullet)) and it does not matter how much you are close to a machine. A bullet is a bullet. A bullet in the head is a bulled in the heat. Cyberpunk has no potions or no magic and a wound is a wound.
To make you understand how all this impact the setting.
We have a Ghost in the shell of the series ((cyberpunk 2020)) compared to a Ghost in the shell ((the dumb hollywood version)) and you get the effect this game is having for the pen and paper fan.
It also does not help that Cd projekt blatantly lied to us for years.
And what we know exactly about the game? Because i am lucky i seen it live otherwise we would have only the 40 minutes gameplay video and the deep dive one that were heavily scripted sequences. Let's take this under exame. People are getting hyped for what exactly?
The gunplay sucks so as a shooter is pretty mediocre. The roleplay elementes are dumbed down so again as RPG is pretty mediocre.
Ah right all it took is Keanu Reeves to generate hype.
And that's about it. Preorders went overboard just because Keanu Reeves were in the game.
And this only proof how the average gamer is dumb that put no valure on his money.
I also quite what i written in the Cd projekt forum about the live presentation ((thread that got locked shortly after because apparently the only criticism they accept is people licking their ass))
At the live presentation at Lucca Comix and Games what i saw is.
Pretty generic ambient ((but maybe it was that district))
Ennemies that moves an behave in a rather predictable manner ((people charging at you dodging some bullets then return to run at you rinse and repeat not even a single ennemy taking cover.))
Lot of shotout ((Not even a drip of blood on the ground.. You could see debris you can see heads explose but not tracks on blood on the ennemy or on the floor not even a puddle))
Akward bike driving mechanics. ((it feelt at the level of GTA san andreas))
Little dialogue options no the slightest track of additional option based on social skills ((that are not in the char system)) just a single option if your background match with the context.
Netrunner can hack stuff (turrets control panels cameras) and even single npcs.
But pretty much the game give you the choice to be Terminator (solo run because apparently now Solo is terminator) or a crossbreed between Deus Ex and Watch Dogs ((Netrunner with stealth mechanics)) you can mix and match this two things.
Of course Sandsquatch fight was cut in the presentation but we already know she is a witcher and she has a potion that is able to make her soak bullet with little no concequences.
Spongey ennemies.
Speaking about the first person:
Tunnel vision confirmed.
There was not a single istance where i could see the character legs.
Weapons take 1/3 of the screen.
The cam like i suspected is on the character chest and not in the head.
I am not sure how a person can slide sideways and mantain the pistol in the position like if is on foot and aiming.
Graphic and candies:
Ambients seemed pretty generic and empty there was not crowds around like in the first gameplay video shown it may be the district that is like that.
Animations on the ennemies and reaction to being hit were there this time. But they felt artificial and unnatural ((if you expect the reactions like when you shoot people in red dead redemption2 you will be disapponted)).
I don't know what is going on with the lighting everything appeared to be washed out. ((again is not final all is subject to change as always said))
Overall disappointing while it was an uncut presentation of what we saw in the deep dive video the game felt like a First Person Shooter a crossbreed between Deus ex and Watch dogs. It felt many things but an RPG.
Oh an the italian voice acting saving for V was awful.
Many Pen and Paper fan felt that as a betrayal as they got lied blatantly instead the direction of the game moved in your ordinary AAA shoter with rpg elements. People disliked that a lot. Cd projekt started to make damage control in their forum by locking threads that had no reason whatsoever to get locked.
After that they deemed taboo some kind of conversation actively censoring their forum those arguments were. References to the past blogs people not happy with the first person only and mainly thread that were not positive about the game. The censorship is going on even now at the point the forum is basically dead.
Each time a new thread pops up and people started telling things that puts under analysis the decision of development took to make this game it will get locked fast. Meanwhile the moderator Sardukar that is biased to start with declaring himself Cyberpunk fan and at the same time telling the gameplay can be whatever for him because cd projekt red is making it is locking all the negative threads and spammin the forums with useless Poll Thread to keep the dead forum very much alive.
People at the time imagine cyberpunk as an Action/RPG with the ruleset adapted to work in a real time action game. What was done instead was completely tossing the system in favour for a more witcher like level progression based system putting gamey things like double jump and heat seeking bullets that have no place in cyberpunk and also basically reshaping the lore of the setting to make it appeare more PUNK than Cyber.
I have no doubt it will be a successful game or doubt that will not be a nice game per se. But as Cyberpunk game is absolutely dreadful.
Now for who don't know the source material this is perfectly fine. But the pen and paper cyberpunk took in account a lot of things that in Cyberpunk 2077 were removed to "Holding hand" to the player. For example the player character will never experience Cyberpsichosis that is a big part of the cyberpunk setting. We lost the sense of thrill and danger by doing shotouts mundane having a kid protagonist that swearing left and right slide under a storm of bullets taking out a whole army alone.
A solo is not a terminator or rambo. To make you understand what a solo is take Motoko Kusanagi of Ghost in the shell ((the sieries not the movies)) now that is a solo.
There also also mechanics that clash with the settings as well. Like Sandsquatch that apparently she is a witcher and have a potion on her back that makes her immune to bullets. ((such things are vs the spirit of the pen and paper))
The cyberpunk of the pen and paper is a gritty realistic world devoured by Macrocorporation and the people in this world are two stort of people. "Movers" or "Moved".
Usually the protagonists of cyberpunk are "Moved" this means that are just a little tiny pawn in the middle of something far bigger than them. For this caution is something that makes the difference between be a succesfull edge runner or being a golorified corpse.
V instead is a teenage brat acting edging running and gunning. ((the kind of character that in a proper cyberpunk pen and paper session would be dead as soon as he started))
Cyberpunk 2020 was also connected by a Net that was far more vast and dangerous. The net is still present in Cyberpunk 2077 but is hardlocked. Basically now networks are localized by structure. For example a Mall will have their own network that will be isolated from the rest. Is basically a system of isolated clusters.
The Cybernetics in cyberpunk are bound to enhance your body but not going too much in sci-fi ((sorry no laser katanas that shield you from bullet)) and it does not matter how much you are close to a machine. A bullet is a bullet. A bullet in the head is a bulled in the heat. Cyberpunk has no potions or no magic and a wound is a wound.
To make you understand how all this impact the setting.
We have a Ghost in the shell of the series ((cyberpunk 2020)) compared to a Ghost in the shell ((the dumb hollywood version)) and you get the effect this game is having for the pen and paper fan.
It also does not help that Cd projekt blatantly lied to us for years.
And what we know exactly about the game? Because i am lucky i seen it live otherwise we would have only the 40 minutes gameplay video and the deep dive one that were heavily scripted sequences. Let's take this under exame. People are getting hyped for what exactly?
The gunplay sucks so as a shooter is pretty mediocre. The roleplay elementes are dumbed down so again as RPG is pretty mediocre.
Ah right all it took is Keanu Reeves to generate hype.
And that's about it. Preorders went overboard just because Keanu Reeves were in the game.
And this only proof how the average gamer is dumb that put no valure on his money.
I also quite what i written in the Cd projekt forum about the live presentation ((thread that got locked shortly after because apparently the only criticism they accept is people licking their ass))
At the live presentation at Lucca Comix and Games what i saw is.
Pretty generic ambient ((but maybe it was that district))
Ennemies that moves an behave in a rather predictable manner ((people charging at you dodging some bullets then return to run at you rinse and repeat not even a single ennemy taking cover.))
Lot of shotout ((Not even a drip of blood on the ground.. You could see debris you can see heads explose but not tracks on blood on the ennemy or on the floor not even a puddle))
Akward bike driving mechanics. ((it feelt at the level of GTA san andreas))
Little dialogue options no the slightest track of additional option based on social skills ((that are not in the char system)) just a single option if your background match with the context.
Netrunner can hack stuff (turrets control panels cameras) and even single npcs.
But pretty much the game give you the choice to be Terminator (solo run because apparently now Solo is terminator) or a crossbreed between Deus Ex and Watch Dogs ((Netrunner with stealth mechanics)) you can mix and match this two things.
Of course Sandsquatch fight was cut in the presentation but we already know she is a witcher and she has a potion that is able to make her soak bullet with little no concequences.
Spongey ennemies.
Speaking about the first person:
Tunnel vision confirmed.
There was not a single istance where i could see the character legs.
Weapons take 1/3 of the screen.
The cam like i suspected is on the character chest and not in the head.
I am not sure how a person can slide sideways and mantain the pistol in the position like if is on foot and aiming.
Graphic and candies:
Ambients seemed pretty generic and empty there was not crowds around like in the first gameplay video shown it may be the district that is like that.
Animations on the ennemies and reaction to being hit were there this time. But they felt artificial and unnatural ((if you expect the reactions like when you shoot people in red dead redemption2 you will be disapponted)).
I don't know what is going on with the lighting everything appeared to be washed out. ((again is not final all is subject to change as always said))
Overall disappointing while it was an uncut presentation of what we saw in the deep dive video the game felt like a First Person Shooter a crossbreed between Deus ex and Watch dogs. It felt many things but an RPG.
Oh an the italian voice acting saving for V was awful.
Last edited by a moderator:
Prime Junta
Guest
Sounds interesting. Do you have a link, I'd be interested to see that blog post?
(I snipped the rest because it's just autistic rage about CDPR and the game rather than answering my question, viz. what you expected or hoped to see.)
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
They removed the blogposts however i think they are avaliable on the wayback machine. As for the posts they did think nice to remove those completely and now are nowhere to be seen.
Try here: http://web.archive.org/web/20141216121839/http://www.cyberpunk.net/blog/mechanisms/
"For hardcore Cyberpunk 2020 fans out there, twiddling with rules in such a way may seem like blasphemy. But rest assured that we are working very closely with Mike Pondsmith to ensure that the unique feel of the original, paper game is preserved intact. Of course we may need to change some things, add new elements or even drop the ones that simply do not work in a video game (“Geology” skill anyone?)."
Instead of changing some things they tossed the whole system and created a witcheresque system based on levels.
Try here: http://web.archive.org/web/20141216121839/http://www.cyberpunk.net/blog/mechanisms/
"For hardcore Cyberpunk 2020 fans out there, twiddling with rules in such a way may seem like blasphemy. But rest assured that we are working very closely with Mike Pondsmith to ensure that the unique feel of the original, paper game is preserved intact. Of course we may need to change some things, add new elements or even drop the ones that simply do not work in a video game (“Geology” skill anyone?)."
Instead of changing some things they tossed the whole system and created a witcheresque system based on levels.
Prime Junta
Guest
But... that doesn't say anything. It's incredibly vague. Just that PnP and cRPG skills have to be different because reasons and they're consulting with Pondsmith to preserve the unique feel, whatever the hell that means.
If you're interpreting that as "we want to make a faithful adaptation of the PnP rules only changing what is absolutely necessary" then the problem is with your wishful thinking glasses, not that they "blatantly lied" or similar bullshit.
If you're interpreting that as "we want to make a faithful adaptation of the PnP rules only changing what is absolutely necessary" then the problem is with your wishful thinking glasses, not that they "blatantly lied" or similar bullshit.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
" But rest assured that we are working very closely with Mike Pondsmith to ensure that the unique feel of the original, paper game is preserved intact."
This line is pretty specific. But it were a different team with a different lead designer.
Problem is not that they changed the system. The problem is Cyberpunk 2077 had not the remote feeling of the pen and paper counterpart. If you see the source material then you see cyberpunk 2077 they don't seem to share even the setting. This both in gameplay and the overall feel of the setting and also the way the situations are presented.
Also woth to mention Cd projekt did some other forum posts on the matter those sadly got lost as they can't even found in the wayback machine.
Is not just autistic rambling. Pen and paper fan got lied for years then Cd projekt deleted everything pretending that never happened.
Just like when people were talking about the graphic downgrade of witcher 3 and they were in denial telling "Is not that the graphic is downgraded it was a stilistic choice."
What i written in that long post is sadly true fact that were attempted to be hidden. Check yourself go in cd projekt forums. You will see all the uncovenient posts get locked and the forum in spammed with useles pools.
This line is pretty specific. But it were a different team with a different lead designer.
Problem is not that they changed the system. The problem is Cyberpunk 2077 had not the remote feeling of the pen and paper counterpart. If you see the source material then you see cyberpunk 2077 they don't seem to share even the setting. This both in gameplay and the overall feel of the setting and also the way the situations are presented.
Also woth to mention Cd projekt did some other forum posts on the matter those sadly got lost as they can't even found in the wayback machine.
Is not just autistic rambling. Pen and paper fan got lied for years then Cd projekt deleted everything pretending that never happened.
Just like when people were talking about the graphic downgrade of witcher 3 and they were in denial telling "Is not that the graphic is downgraded it was a stilistic choice."
What i written in that long post is sadly true fact that were attempted to be hidden. Check yourself go in cd projekt forums. You will see all the uncovenient posts get locked and the forum in spammed with useles pools.
- Joined
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Danikas
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
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- 1,606
But it is, you are like those people who expected Fallout 3 by bethesda to be an isometric rpg when everyone knew it was going to be Oblivion with guns. Temper your expectations I knew it was going to be Witcher3+ with guns from the moment Witcher 3 sold so well. I expect good writing at least if you expect complex mechanics you clearly havent played any Cdpr games.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
And again i told you we never expected it to be a full conversion. We were aware we were getting an ction rpg. But what was told is that we would end to have the pen and paper feel intact and is not the case.
Because the system was not adapted at all but fully scrapped there is absolutely nothing of Cyberpunk 2020 in that title.
Laser Katana that parry bullets.
Double Jump
Mundane shotouts
No risks.
Pampering the player for cyberpsychosis.
This is not cyberpunk it goes versus what is the pen and paper setting.
We were expecting something Akin Fallout New Vegas. An action rpg with a system similiar to the pen and paper and with meaningful Character design system. Not a player centric Shooter with lite RPG elements.
Because the system was not adapted at all but fully scrapped there is absolutely nothing of Cyberpunk 2020 in that title.
Laser Katana that parry bullets.
Double Jump
Mundane shotouts
No risks.
Pampering the player for cyberpsychosis.
This is not cyberpunk it goes versus what is the pen and paper setting.
We were expecting something Akin Fallout New Vegas. An action rpg with a system similiar to the pen and paper and with meaningful Character design system. Not a player centric Shooter with lite RPG elements.
Danikas
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Messages
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So meaningful i had every skill maxed halfway through the game please take your rose tinted glasses off. Fallout Nv was the same shit as Fallout 3 the only thing that saved it was the writing if it was written like Fallout 3 codex would shit on it.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
Well a system like that would be preferable than this crap we are getting Danikas. Also Cyberpunk had a pretty organiz progression system and NO LEVELS.
This is what made that game unique.
You were getting progressions point to apply where you want at the end of the session.
This is what made that game unique.
You were getting progressions point to apply where you want at the end of the session.
Danikas
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Messages
- 1,606
So basically lvl up in all but name.
Prime Junta
Guest
---> interjection
Leveled loot is unquestionably decline. However, that cancer has spread everywhere in AAA games so I would have been shocked (in a good way) if Cyberpunk 2077 had done away with it.
Again: the problem is with your expectations. This is a mainstream game, not a game of, by, and for autists.
Leveled loot is unquestionably decline. However, that cancer has spread everywhere in AAA games so I would have been shocked (in a good way) if Cyberpunk 2077 had done away with it.
Again: the problem is with your expectations. This is a mainstream game, not a game of, by, and for autists.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
The progression point were limited. Also there is a degree of skill you can have however the rest were given by cyberware or bioware. The system reminded the older fallouts. You were bound to create an organic character but not a special snowflake like Adam Jensen or The Dragonborn but an ordinary individual that had flaw and perks. You were not an hero. Or a superhuman but an individual.
And my expectation never grew of my own. I had expectation based on declarations of the developer. If the developer is full of shit my only fault was the one of believe it.
And my expectation never grew of my own. I had expectation based on declarations of the developer. If the developer is full of shit my only fault was the one of believe it.
Danikas
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Messages
- 1,606
Divinity 2 loot system made me stop playing the game it was so retarted.
Prime Junta
Guest
What declarations?
As I said the one you posted (which I had seen) was so obviously vague that whatever you read into it came from your wishful thinking, not them.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
There were plenty of forum posts by the devs that were going in detail on how tackling the developer and keep the pen and paper feel intact. Not in the blog but in the forum. Now those threads are totally removed and coveniently removed if i have to say.
Like i said there were a different team under Cyberpunk 2077 till the 2016 when all the pre production was scrapped and the team was replaced with the one of witcher 3. It is since then that cd projekt went in total silent and then when the first gamescon trailer went out they "Renewed" the forum of course some content was "missing" and displayed a total different game that has nothing of the feel of the pen and paper is based from.
They went pretty sluggish and shady in this. Sadly this forum posts and dev comments got removed. But there is a recurring pattern even now.
First they declared after PC Gamer defined this game is a FPS "Cyberpunk is not a shooter is not even a shooter with rp elements is a rpg first and foremost."
Then this becomed "Mostly an RPG"
Then recently:
THis game is surrounded by lies, retcons and a very toxic marketing that is confusing and is all over the place.
Like i said there were a different team under Cyberpunk 2077 till the 2016 when all the pre production was scrapped and the team was replaced with the one of witcher 3. It is since then that cd projekt went in total silent and then when the first gamescon trailer went out they "Renewed" the forum of course some content was "missing" and displayed a total different game that has nothing of the feel of the pen and paper is based from.
They went pretty sluggish and shady in this. Sadly this forum posts and dev comments got removed. But there is a recurring pattern even now.
First they declared after PC Gamer defined this game is a FPS "Cyberpunk is not a shooter is not even a shooter with rp elements is a rpg first and foremost."
Then this becomed "Mostly an RPG"
Then recently:
THis game is surrounded by lies, retcons and a very toxic marketing that is confusing and is all over the place.
Prime Junta
Guest
You'll forgive me if I won't accept your description of the events at face value.
Necroscope
Arcane
Writing alone would never save it. Branching dialogues, CQC, skill checks, factions and overall shades of grey tone of the game, more sense to everything, improved character progression, writing - these are the things that saved New Vegas. If only it had a more inspired setting and location design, even the most severe cases of Bethesda fanboys would acknowledge it's a better game than FO3. The gambling theme and blandness is what killed the game in the eyes of AAA audience as opposed to the urban setting of FO3.
Danikas
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
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- 1,606
Wow you just described writing congrats, factions were unifinished btw. Legion lacks content.
So improved you max all skills halfway through the game without mods.
Mebrilia the Viera Queen
Guest
Of course. If i were in your place even i would had doubts to believe it.
However the recent pattern of events is still visible. As is still visible their lies check for yourself.
Necroscope
Arcane
I didn't describe anything, I enumerated different things.
No so but still better.
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