D&D 5E Discussion

[nikolokolus]

And by "classics," of course I mean, R.A. Salvatore, Tracy Hickman, Ed Greenwood, et al.

Spoiler

 

[m_s0]

BTW, maybe we should change the thread title a bit?

Good point - I changed it to simply "D&D 5E Discussion". I'm open to other suggestions though.

It's kind of funny how WotC can't make anything simple/clear. Even when they really seem to try... a bit (not enough to rethink the concept of 3 core rulebooks which flies in the face of the entire concept behind not-5e, though).

Hey guise, let's drop the numbering and just call this edition Dungeons & Dragons this time to make it simple for everyone, especially newcomers. So now there's people who've played D&D Next for two years and are used to calling it that, people who have been playing D&D long enough so that they need to call it 5e to distinguish it from everything else, and new people who will be really fucking puzzled when they see "1e" come out apparently decades after the game's been around, not to mention after 4e. Unless they don't do any research and, frankly, I can't see people not trying to do research beforehand considering this is a game you need to shell out $50-$150 for (pricing clearly meant to attract newcomers, you see). Type "Dungeons & Dragons" into youtube and you enter a world of clusterfuck if you're new to this mess. And then there's something called Basic D&D (prominently advertised on the official website) and the Starter Set (not advertised prominently on the official website) which I think doesn't even mention the existence of Basic D&D at all. To avoid confusing people, obviously Unless you just stumble upon the Starter Set, grab it and not look anything up. Then you're all set.

Oh, yeah, and if you get the Starter Set as someone new to the game you need to look up a playthrough on youtube or something, because there is no usual narration thingy which shows you more or less how to run a game.

Finally, D&D made nice and accesible for newbies

 

[Akasen]

God bless you m_s0, I was at a bookstore that actually had D&D and Pathfinder books and realized how cumbersome it must be for a newcomer to just come into all this. Of course, when I began my sojourn into tabletop, I had three things to help me figure this out.

Spoony, Lord_Kat, and the glorious Codex.

 

[catfood]

http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?1786-We-Have-a-D-D-5th-Edition-Bard!#.U9ZrftFVU9k

Bards can now cast 9th level spells.

 

[Rahdulan]

BTW, maybe we should change the thread title a bit?

Good point - I changed it to simply "D&D 5E Discussion". I'm open to other suggestions though.

It's kind of funny how WotC can't make anything simple/clear. Even when they really seem to try... a bit (not enough to rethink the concept of 3 core rulebooks which flies in the face of the entire concept behind not-5e, though).

Hey guise, let's drop the numbering and just call this edition Dungeons & Dragons this time to make it simple for everyone, especially newcomers. So now there's people who've played D&D Next for two years and are used to calling it that, people who have been playing D&D long enough so that they need to call it 5e to distinguish it from everything else, and new people who will be really fucking puzzled when they see "1e" come out apparently decades after the game's been around, not to mention after 4e. Unless they don't do any research and, frankly, I can't see people not trying to do research beforehand considering this is a game you need to shell out $50-$150 for (pricing clearly meant to attract newcomers, you see). Type "Dungeons & Dragons" into youtube and you enter a world of clusterfuck if you're new to this mess. And then there's something called Basic D&D (prominently advertised on the official website) and the Starter Set (not advertised prominently on the official website) which I think doesn't even mention the existence of Basic D&D at all. To avoid confusing people, obviously Unless you just stumble upon the Starter Set, grab it and not look anything up. Then you're all set.

Oh, yeah, and if you get the Starter Set as someone new to the game you need to look up a playthrough on youtube or something, because there is no usual narration thingy which shows you more or less how to run a game.

Finally, D&D made nice and accesible for newbies

Relevant image, could even be earlier from this thread. Could use some updating, though.

 

[m_s0]

One thing worth mentioning is that there's a pretty legitimate reason for the mess above. This time it's WotC not having a clue how to handle introducing new players to the game. Again.

Could use some updating, though.

Good idea. Here's the updated version, from the perspective of a complete newbie:

Oh, yeah, this reminds me: have fun distinguishing D&D (5e) in all its forms from those reprints of old D&D if you stumble upon those trying to figure out what is what. Probably not the biggest hindrance, all things considered, but it still adds to the exisiting pile of confusion. That idea to drop the numbering is pure convenience for everyone involved

And that's not even getting into the game itself, because I've got no idea whether it's any good or whether the modularity actually works.

 

[tuluse]

I doubt dropping the number has anything to do with trying to prevent confusion.

It's probably more like this.

Suit: Marketing says the target demographic is males aged 14-25. Research shows they want to play hip cool games that are new, and don't like old things. Calling it 5th edition draws attention to the fact that D&D is old. So we had them come up with a hip cool name, D and D Next!

 

[Kahlis]

I'm a millennial who didn't get on the tabletop gravy train until everybody was just circulating 3.5e PDFs, no AD&D experience in this one (other than IE games lolol). Aside from AD&D/2e and 3.5e, did they ever explicitly point out the edition on the book designs? There was an enworld picture a while back with early prints of the 5e rulebooks, and they at least refer to the "fifth edition" of each on the back.

All the blue/red/black box sets from the 80's seem pretty confusing too. Assuming people your casual player who was getting his D&D stuff from random flea markets/non-gaming stores and not reading the magazines was even less likely to get the memo on just when new revisions of all the books were coming out anyway.

Also that bard artwork is somehow horrible.

 

[m_s0]

I doubt dropping the number has anything to do with trying to prevent confusion.

It's probably more like this.

Suit: Marketing says the target demographic is males aged 14-25. Research shows they want to play hip cool games that are new, and don't like old things. Calling it 5th edition draws attention to the fact that D&D is old. So we had them come up with a hip cool name, D and D Next!

It's probably like that reason behind naming the Xbone more than anything else. "D&D" + modularity = D&D Everything, but a newbie has no context to get that. They're trying to kill two birds with one stone by creating a modular game and starting with the most basic of rules, but it looks to me like they're going to fail on one of those fronts, because they assume that, say, when someone notices a stack of 4e books next to a D&D (5e) book that someone is going to just pick up the latter instead of asking himself what the hell is that all about. And they're not marketing it well by just dumping the Starter Set out there.

 

[Don Peste]

BTW, maybe we should change the thread title a bit?

Good point - I changed it to simply "D&D 5E Discussion". I'm open to other suggestions though.

It's kind of funny how WotC can't make anything simple/clear. Even when they really seem to try... a bit (not enough to rethink the concept of 3 core rulebooks which flies in the face of the entire concept behind not-5e, though).

Hey guise, let's drop the numbering and just call this edition Dungeons & Dragons this time to make it simple for everyone, especially newcomers. So now there's people who've played D&D Next for two years and are used to calling it that, people who have been playing D&D long enough so that they need to call it 5e to distinguish it from everything else, and new people who will be really fucking puzzled when they see "1e" come out apparently decades after the game's been around, not to mention after 4e. Unless they don't do any research and, frankly, I can't see people not trying to do research beforehand considering this is a game you need to shell out $50-$150 for (pricing clearly meant to attract newcomers, you see). Type "Dungeons & Dragons" into youtube and you enter a world of clusterfuck if you're new to this mess. And then there's something called Basic D&D (prominently advertised on the official website) and the Starter Set (not advertised prominently on the official website) which I think doesn't even mention the existence of Basic D&D at all. To avoid confusing people, obviously Unless you just stumble upon the Starter Set, grab it and not look anything up. Then you're all set.

Oh, yeah, and if you get the Starter Set as someone new to the game you need to look up a playthrough on youtube or something, because there is no usual narration thingy which shows you more or less how to run a game.

Finally, D&D made nice and accesible for newbies

Relevant image, could even be earlier from this thread. Could use some updating, though.

Spoiler

There's this: http://roleplay-geek.blogspot.com.es/2012/02/ages-of-d-timeline-v2.html

And this: https://www.wizards.com/30thTimeline/30thTimeline.asp

 

[m_s0]

Diablo II?

 

[Alchemist]

Aside from AD&D/2e and 3.5e, did they ever explicitly point out the edition on the book designs? There was an enworld picture a while back with early prints of the 5e rulebooks, and they at least refer to the "fifth edition" of each on the back.

You are right on both counts - they never called out the edition number on the front cover except for the first printing of 2E and on the 3.5 books. And I have the Starter Set where they say in the rulebook and on the back of the box to refer to the fifth edition core books for more options. So WotC and most of the internet at this point is referring to it as 5E, and that works fine for me.

And we're talking about a game with a 40-year history which passed through several different management teams - of course it's going to be a bit of a mess.

Oh, yeah, and if you get the Starter Set as someone new to the game you need to look up a playthrough on youtube or something, because there is no usual narration thingy which shows you more or less how to run a game.

I'm not sure where you're getting that impression. Do you own the Starter Set? I have it and it has plenty of guidance for newbie DMs written into the rulebook and adventure.

 

[Night Goat]

IIRC there was a d&d-based pnp game included with the collector's edition of Diablo II.

 

[Irenaeus]

I received the 5E Starter Set yesterday and had a quick look at it. The rulebook is rather thin, but well organized. Didn't read the rules in details yet, so can't comment on that. Nothing stood out as retarded at first look.

The adventure that comes with the set seems to have plenty of content, but I just skimmed, didn't even read the plot. The only negative is that it seems too long for a first adventure and introduction, I'd personally design something smaller and more focused.

The art direction isn't bad (a bit worse than 3E, but light-years ahead of 4E). Obviously, the old art from Larry Elmore and co. blows it out to space.

The major disappoint, at least to me, were the dices. Too small, all the same colour and too light. Doesn't feel like the cool dices that came with the Red Box from the 80s. If I ever get serious about this game, I'll want to buy new dices.

Waiting eagerly for the next books!

 

[Kahlis]

There's apparently going to be spell cards. At least this seems to allay the fears some people have had about the bard not having a spell list separate from that of the other casters.

How do you guys feel about there being (not counting the bard) three Arcane classes? Lot of people on GiantITP and the like seem to be worried about there not being enough difference to warrant there already being three right out of the gate.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Why are we trapped in this shitfest???

 

[nikolokolus]

Why are we trapped in this shitfest???

We're not. With all Hasbro/WoTC's chronic mishandling of D&D, at least they fucked up and accidentally created something awesome with the OGL, which made way for some truly excellent derivatives and retroclones.

As much as I think 5th ed. is a step in the right direction after the disastrous 4th ed. and splat book bloated 3.x editions, at this point D&D is always going to be the most bland, mass appeal, down-the-middle product in the RPG marketplace because it's trying to satisfy everyone, but never quite being the most appealing option to anyone (except for brand loyalists who insist on playing official D&D).


Then again, maybe you're talking about another shitfest altogether?

 

[Irenaeus]

Yeah, I'm a brand loyalist for nostalgic reasons. Best system in my opinion is GURPS 3rd ed.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I've been running a pure homebrew ever since fall of 2008, but I still feel trapped since d&d carries a brand and whatnot. Those fuckers shit the bed hard and fucked the entire community no matter how much we try to deny it. Back in the day, I could get some books, figures, and a table, and throw down and bring in new players. Now, I just feel like I'm talking shit. WotC fucked the entire hobby over. Big business met with poor talent and we have to pay the price. It might make a comeback, but it's a shabby facsimile of what it should be, given the history.

 

[Night Goat]

Loyalty has to be earned. There's no reason to play a bad game just because the publisher bought the D&D name. Everyone who made D&D great is gone.

 

[Irenaeus]

Still, I felt I should reward a step in the right direction.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Yeah, I might still buy it.

 

[Alchemist]

I've been running a pure homebrew ever since fall of 2008, but I still feel trapped since d&d carries a brand and whatnot. Those fuckers shit the bed hard and fucked the entire community no matter how much we try to deny it. Back in the day, I could get some books, figures, and a table, and throw down and bring in new players. Now, I just feel like I'm talking shit. WotC fucked the entire hobby over. Big business met with poor talent and we have to pay the price. It might make a comeback, but it's a shabby facsimile of what it should be, given the history.

Sorry but this is complete nonsense. Trapped? What's stopping you from running whatever the hell you want? Is WotC holding a gun to your head saying you must play 5E? If you're a good DM, players will come no matter what system or edition you're running. Run OSR, old AD&D, 3.5 / Pathfinder, whatever you like best.

I do agree WotC failed epicly with 4E - but they seem to be making an effort to rectify that. And before writing off 5E as a shitfest, it might be wise to see the three core books first before making judgment. The full game isn't even really "out" yet. All we've seen is the basic stripped-down rules, the Starter Set and a few previews of the PHB.

 

[LeStryfe79]

It's easier to attract new players with a name like Dungeons and Dragons. I run a d20 homebrew which entails extra layers. This is just the kind of thing to turn off newcomers. When I started, it was 1993, and my friend was like "here's 2nd edition d&d", and I had all these books to read and artwork to look at and it felt cool. Throwing a bunch of clones and house rules at folks doesn't have the same appeal. Sorry.

 

[Alchemist]

It's easier to attract new players with a name like Dungeons and Dragons. I run a d20 homebrew which entails extra layers. This is just the kind of thing to turn off newcomers. When I started, it was 1993, and my friend was like "here's 2nd edition d&d", and I had all these books to read and artwork to look at and it felt cool. Throwing a bunch of clones and house rules at folks doesn't have the same appeal. Sorry.

Well what I've seen of 5E is a lot like 3E d20 and 2nd Edition actually. You might actually like it. Wait and see what the core books have.... Also 5E seems designed from the ground up to easily handle adding house rules.