D&D 5E Discussion

[Matalarata]

Low level Pathfinder runs pretty smooth. Issues start to appear in high-level play - such as some builds requiring a spreadsheet to manage all their combat modifiers, and hours-long combat encounters. Not saying that can't be fun, but it can get old sometimes.

Ok with that. Usually I do not allow the full base+prestige class spectrum. In some settings they just make no sense. That said we do play with computers and Tablets and a lot of modern implement to smooth our gameplay. Still...spreadsheet...

 

[Irenaeus]

Just kill your PCs when they get too powerful. Start again.

 

[ProphetSword]

That said, from what I read I'm quite sure I'd prefer the Pathfinder system.

Still we're at our first campaign, low level oriented, so my opinion could vary in a year or so. I don't think it will

Low level Pathfinder runs pretty smooth. Issues start to appear in high-level play - such as some builds requiring a spreadsheet to manage all their combat modifiers, and hours-long combat encounters. Not saying that can't be fun, but it can get old sometimes.

Alchemist is right. It plays great until level 10 or so, and then it starts to become a real nightmare as battles start to take three hours to complete. That's what prompted me to change systems. If you're running games that stay low in level, you're fine. For higher level games I used computer programs to help me track everything and it was still horrible. Never again.

 

[Matalarata]

Alchemist is right. It plays great until level 10 or so, and then it starts to become a real nightmare as battles start to take three hours to complete. That's what prompted me to change systems. If you're running games that stay low in level, you're fine. For higher level games I used computer programs to help me track everything and it was still horrible. Never again.

Mmh my original intent was to reach level 15 in the latest part of the campaign... Thx for the advice, I'll try simulating some battle to see where we're going to...
I have to say I managed to Storytell 2 (that's two) campaigns of Exalted. Those who know the system (it's shit) know why I find pathfinder a paradise. Ever had episodic combat? That's episodic combat spanning 1 month against a behemoth monster... 1 fucking FF VII-sized asshole that took 5+1 special session to take down, we managed to squeeze 3 maybe 4 combat rounds in 2,5 hrs.
A nightamare no software could help you manage, hundreds of modifyers, thousands of self contained powers that should interact (think Magic the Gathering...)
....I loved the setting so much

 

[Ulminati]

There's nothing intristically wrong with quick&dirty or really heavy crunch. The main problem with 5E I find is that it tries to be both and ends up being neither. If you want a crunchy system with lots of options and simmy mechanics, 5E ends up being too gamey and characterbuilding too limited. If you want quick&dirty there's still too much stuff to keep track of. Plus—with damage being lowered across the board but HP progression remaining the same—mid and high-level encounters take forever to finish even with the streamlined rules. Counting in rounds, the average encounter length was about 50% longer for my group than 3.x.

 

[nikolokolus]

That said, from what I read I'm quite sure I'd prefer the Pathfinder system.

Still we're at our first campaign, low level oriented, so my opinion could vary in a year or so. I don't think it will

Low level Pathfinder runs pretty smooth. Issues start to appear in high-level play - such as some builds requiring a spreadsheet to manage all their combat modifiers, and hours-long combat encounters. Not saying that can't be fun, but it can get old sometimes.

This is why I love DCC. "High level play? ... Ahahahahahahaha!!!"

 

[Irenaeus]

That said, from what I read I'm quite sure I'd prefer the Pathfinder system.

Still we're at our first campaign, low level oriented, so my opinion could vary in a year or so. I don't think it will

Low level Pathfinder runs pretty smooth. Issues start to appear in high-level play - such as some builds requiring a spreadsheet to manage all their combat modifiers, and hours-long combat encounters. Not saying that can't be fun, but it can get old sometimes.

This is why I love DCC. "High level play? ... Ahahahahahahaha!!!"

After researching this DCC thing, I think this is what is more of my tastes.

 

[nikolokolus]

After researching this DCC thing, I think this is what is more of my tastes.

Get the PDF and take it for a test drive. A. Even if you end up not liking the game, it has the best collection of RPG art in a single book I've ever seen. Russ Nicholson, Jeff Easley, Jim Roslof, et al. It's amazing. B. If you do like the game then by all means go to purplesorcerergames.com and download the mobile app, it's the best electronic aid for a game I've ever used.

EDIT:
Or you can use the web version http://purplesorcerer.com/crawler/crawler.htm

 

[Alchemist]

After researching this DCC thing, I think this is what is more of my tastes.

Get the PDF and take it for a test drive. A. Even if you end up not liking the game, it has the best collection of RPG art in a single book I've ever seen. Russ Nicholson, Jeff Easley, Jim Roslof, et al. It's amazing. B. If you do like the game then by all means go to purplesorcerergames.com and download the mobile app, it's the best electronic aid for a game I've ever used.

EDIT:
Or you can use the web version http://purplesorcerer.com/crawler/crawler.htm

DCC is definitely one of the best and most interesting offshoots of D&D to appear in recent years, and the art direction is unmatched in flavor and consistency. It's the closest I've seen to someone replicating the great pulpy feel of the older editions, and the literature they were inspired by. I have the gold-foil limited edition book (with the big skull) and it's by far one of the most treasured on my RPG shelf. The system is a total blast to play but you need to embrace the chaos and expect the unexpected.

I'm often torn between wanting to play more DCC and some variant of D&D / AD&D. If I was going to be stranded on a desert island it would certainly make the list of what books to bring.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

I've always wanted to try out DCC RPG, but I could never find people who are manly enough to play it IRL.

Perhaps we should have a Codexian DCC game.

 

[nikolokolus]

I've always played with people I know and I've barely dipped my toes into the world of roll20, so I'm not sure how good I'd be at running a game, but I'd be down for playing DCC in a funnel or one-shot and see how it goes ...

 

[Alchemist]

Hmm I've got some yet unused DCC modules I could run... not promising anything but if there is enough interest I might consider running some online DCC for Codexers.

 

[L'ennui]

I've always wanted to try out DCC RPG, but I could never find people who are manly enough to play it IRL.

Perhaps we should have a Codexian DCC game.

Yes, perhaps we should.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

I'd definitely be interesting in playing. Actually I suppose I wouldn't mind DMing a game either, though I must warn you that I've never played PnP in English before. Also it may be difficult to run a module for you oldfags since you've played Portal Under the Stars seven times already.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I find the character customization options and roleplaying guidance to be far greater in the 5ed PHB than in ANY previous edition and I don't even think it's close. There's basically 14 races and 40 classes in addition to backgrounds, truly meaty feats, and a more balanced 3.X style multiclass system. 20 different polearms and WoWish 5% noncombat integrals never added much for me and made previous systems too tedious without adding complexity. These systems will obviously be added in splat books anyway for people who like that sort of thing. The HP bloat isn't nearly as bad as 4ed and the amount of heinous rolling isn't nearly as bad as 3.X. I'm a little suspect of the Hit Dice pools and short rest mechanics but they're not without merit depending on how the DM handles them. I've spent 1000's of hours reading every PHB and I can honestly say that most complaints against 5ed are without merit. It's not hard to play without a grid, gives an insane amount of character options, and delves deeply into roleplaying mechanics by making traits an actual part of the game. Hell, skills can even be gained outside of leveling and benefits can be be gained from good roleplaying. I understand that any system is subjective and has its supporters and detractors, but some of the complaints levied at 5ed are flat out lies or due to lack of knowledge. As a reference, I grew up playing and loving AD&D, thought 3ed was a fairly decent mixed bag, and hated 4ed. I have also been kicked out of Enworld's forums multiple times for what its worth. That being said I can honestly say that my first experiences with 5ed are better than those of the previous systems.

 

[nikolokolus]

Isn't getting kicked out of ENWorld or RPG.net a badge of honor for most people?

 

[Irenaeus]

I find the character customization options and roleplaying guidance to be far greater in the 5ed PHB than in ANY previous edition and I don't even think it's close. There's basically 14 races and 40 classes in addition to backgrounds, truly meaty feats, and a more balanced 3.X style multiclass system. 20 different polearms and WoWish 5% noncombat integrals never added much for me and made previous systems too tedious without adding complexity. These systems will obviously be added in splat books anyway for people who like that sort of thing. The HP bloat isn't nearly as bad as 4ed and the amount of heinous rolling isn't nearly as bad as 3.X. I'm a little suspect of the Hit Dice pools and short rest mechanics but they're not without merit depending on how the DM handles them. I've spent 1000's of hours reading every PHB and I can honestly say that most complaints against 5ed are without merit. It's not hard to play without a grid, gives an insane amount of character options, and delves deeply into roleplaying mechanics by making traits an actual part of the game. Hell, skills can even be gained outside of leveling and benefits can be be gained from good roleplaying. I understand that any system is subjective and has its supporters and detractors, but some of the complaints levied at 5ed are flat out lies or due to lack of knowledge. As a reference, I grew up playing and loving AD&D, thought 3ed was a fairly decent mixed bag, and hated 4ed. I have also been kicked out of Enworld's forums multiple times for what its worth. That being said I can honestly say that my first experiences with 5ed are better than those of the previous systems.

Great to hear this!

 

[Night Goat]

And finally, I wanted to address the take on spell slots. They are a great addition to the game. Low level spells that are usually forgotten continue to be useful as you go up in level. As an example, if a character has the "Magic Missile" spell and they cast it from their first level slot, they get three missiles that do 1d4+1 damage each. However, for each slot above the first that they cast that spell, they get to add a missile. So a "Magic Missile" spell cast from a 7th level slot will produce 9 missiles. Not only does it power up the spells, it gives more flexibility to the spellcasting and offers more choices. Only have a 4th level slot left? In previous editions, that meant you were only casting a 4th level spell. Now it can be a spell anywhere from 1st to 4th, depending on what you want to do and how you want to use that slot.

The changes to spell slots are fucking stupid. If you're a wizard and you're using your higher-level spell slots to do damage, you're a fucking idiot. There are better things for a wizard to be doing - control spells, buffs, debuffs, etc - leave the damage to the Big Dumb Fighter so he can at least be sort of useful. Magic Missile was only good in previous editions because it scaled automatically with level, so you can just cast a level 1 spell off when you don't want to blow one of your more useful spell slots. If you're using a 7th level slot to cast Magic Missile, you are pants-on-head retarded.

People have bought into the hype for this thing, and now they're trying to convince themselves that it's good. Same thing happened with 4e.

 

[LeStryfe79]

I'm definitely going to get backlash for a lot of what I'm saying but time will eventually sort this out. It will be pretty obvious in a couple years time how successful WotC was with this latest incarnation. Right now I believe in it enough to build a campaign setting, but we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

 

[tuluse]

Nah, 4E was super divisive even on the best days. 5E seems to get either a hey this is pretty good for meh pathfinder does it better reaction. So just from that, it's a huge improvement on 4E.

LeStryfe79 Ulminati

Tells us more about feats dammit

 

[Night Goat]

They've had over three years to work on this already, and this is the best they could do. I wouldn't expect anything else from Mike "skill challenges" Mearls.

 

[Ulminati]

Nah, 4E was super divisive even on the best days. 5E seems to get either a hey this is pretty good for meh pathfinder does it better reaction. So just from that, it's a huge improvement on 4E.

LeStryfe79 Ulminati

Tells us more about feats dammit

I'm trying to get everything written down more organized and less rambling. Something more like a proper review and less of an angry rant. I'm sending a copy to Crooked Bee as soon as it's ready for editorial review. If it's declared 2 Popamole 4 Codex, I'll dump it here instead.

Specifically on the feats, they're an optional rule now. You can get a feat in lieu of +2 to an ability score at level 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20. (Also level 6 and 14 if you're a fighter). Feats are slightly more powerful to compensate for th elost ability score, but you'll see a lot less of them than you used to. Feat chains are also pretty much gone since people are expected to have 0-2 of them fo rmost of their adventuring career.

As a result, item creation feats (and item creation in general) has been cut and metamagic feats were nuked and turned into a class feature for the sorcerer instead. If there's anything in paticular you'd like to know about them tuluse, I can elaborate.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Creating, buying, and selling magic items is no longer part of the core design philosophy. I like this a lot, but many 3.Xers will not. I felt crafting and BAB were the worst aspects of 3.X, but there are many that will disagree with that. Although I think BAB has ran its course, there is still a huge audience for the 3.X way of doing crafting so I'd be shocked if alternate rules weren't released for it in the next year.

 

[tuluse]

I actually never cared for crafting at all. Why would I spend time smithing a sword when I could be delving a dungeon?

I'm curious what options feats give and just want some representative feats look like. Is it just standard stuff like power attack and cleave or do they open up new options in combat?

 

[Irenaeus]

I actually never cared for crafting at all. Why would I spend time smithing a sword when I could be delving a dungeon?

I'm curious what options feats give and just want some representative feats look like. Is it just standard stuff like power attack and cleave or do they open up new options in combat?

From the little I've read, there are some fighting styles a fighter can adopt, for instance, with bonuses.