Human Shield
Augur
Koby said:I don’t really get it do you?
?
System is going to be static including the one you are using now of "the GM decides". Color is outside of system.
Simply not true.
Social contract isn't going to change every session. System is whatever means the social contract decides on using.
Many systems are outside of setting.
There isn't a "perfect system" just the best option for what the group wants to do, deciding for them and preying on lack of experience is possible too.
No body if playing for them, 'you assume too much'.
What?
I'm saying you can't get a clear picture of how your group would react to a new style of system because right now they have no formal creative power. If you want them to have such why not get a clean and fast system instead of one where the passive are resistance to speak up.
Do you even keep a appearance of rules or is it all just your dictations? A GM that doesn't want to share power is going to fudge any system and so feels system doesn't matter.
Replace the "Do" with "Are". Is a joint decision, me AND the players!
So is there an appearance of rules and do they agree to give you final authority? Have they ever been exposed to a system that gave them creative power or drove them to create and deal with moral questions?
You really got stack on that part didn’t you? "deciding for them", "your dictations", "forced to follow", no body is forcing anyone to do anything, and I never said anything like that, it just your interpretation (which is wrong, if you still don’t get it).
Can they change your campaign?
Are moral choices they make freeform or are they supposed to play in character?
I'm not the one that decide how the even is resolved, but more important then that, i'm not the one how necessarily decide the *event sequence*.
Then how do you determine outcome? What is the event sequence in relation to your campaign?
What does your group enjoy actually doing at the table?
System drives behavior in that campaign....
....
Are you getting my point now? (If not, read on)
What? System is always going to exist and is always going to effect play.
.... A system that gives rewards for killing will more likely see players attacking things. A system that encourages dealing with moral questions will see players thinking about such things (not just putting in color like your system but making hard choices).
Which is a BAD thing!!!
I don’t want the system to decide what the players *should* do, the system shouldn't decide/reward/encourage shit, it up to DM and the players what is rewarded and what isn't, NOT THE SYSTEM!
The players *shouldn’t* be encouraged, period.
You realize there are rulesets that base rewards on what people at the table think, right?
You already have a system, it is just vague and prone to passive play when people aren't sure what will happen or how they can effect the shared imagine space. All social environment can effect behavior, knowing what your friends like and dislike is going to encourage behavior.
Why not find a system that produces the play that your group enjoys so the best moments you have now can be the whole game.
Any system that encourage / reward anything *IS* "Removing player power" AND *hinders* players creativity.
P&P role-playing, especially in a fantasy setting, is about freedom (all kinds of them and yes, including but not limited to escapism). If the players should be encouraged at all, they should be encouraged to experiment, and have fun.
Again you are still using system even if you say you don't. Creative power is always going to be limited by the nature of playing as a group. When two players say the other is dead there is a system to see which is the correct.
And you shouldn't be talking about freedom while you have a vague system where you are final authority, this encourages players not to experiment. Why not experiment with a few narrativist systems?
It's not about role-playing correctness or system correctness, and it's sure not about "real" results. Now you are describing it like it’s a job, instead of a game.
The game is played through social contract. A group that loves realism is going to enjoy a system that produces more realistic results, for them a lot of rules would help.