From Software Dark Souls 3

[Odoryuk]

No more slow and methodical combat where quick bursts of speed or flailing combos are rare, every fight is anime shit on steroids.

The games didn't get less methodical since Bloodborne, you just can't keep up.

No more story that's pretty dumb but unintrusive and at least leaves lots of blank space for you to make things up with

You're making things up now, unless you're talking about Sekiro, but their storytelling didn't change that much since Demon's Souls days.

No more connected, thought out level design

Interconnectivity probably won't come back any time soon, but the individual level design became better and better with each game.

Dark Souls 2 sort of had the problem but 3 solidified the series as an artificially difficult button masher where you memorize patterns like a hack and slash Dance Dance Revolution.

See

The games didn't get less methodical since Bloodborne, you just can't keep up.

 

[cvv]

No more connected, thought out level design

Interconnectivity probably won't come back any time soon, but the individual level design became better and better with each game.

Suggesting DS3 has a better level design than DS1. That's a delusion bordering on trolling.

The only vanilla DS3 level I don't consider trash is the Cathedral and maybe the lower parts of Irithyll, although both are still too bland and watery and they're somewhat interesting only due to mob variety and encounter design. Otherwise it's all plain open spaces, straight corridors and right corners everywhere (including the Cathedral), as if designed by an AI or outsourced to some Chink sweatshop.

I shouldn't be surprised tho, someone who extolls DS3 probably never cared about level design in the first place and wouldn't be able to tell a good one if it rammed a fire poker in his ass.

 

[Odoryuk]

Suggesting DS3 has a better level design than DS1. That's a delusion bordering on trolling.

Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring all have better individual level design (the space itself, encounter design, etc.) than Dark Souls 1. The interconnectivity of said levels (which falls flat in the second part of the game) clouds your mind.

 

[Lutte]

DS1 has worse lows but greater highs than DS3. If you think there's anything approaching Sen's Fortress in DS3 you're deluded. If you think DS3 has any moment that equals what you feel when you get cursed while exploring the depths, early in the game, before you get to teleport from bonfire to bonfire, you're beyond saving. Yeah, the latter half of DS1 kinda sucks. Everyone fucking agrees on that. But when it peaks it reaches the summit. I'm not one of the fanboys of the "interconnected world" stuff but there IS something that it does that can't be easily replicated and it's the fact that when you delve too deep into a place you really experience what it means to make a mistake and paying the consequence there in a way that games that just give you tons of bonfires and instant teleport whenever can't provide. Particularly in combination with a permanent status effect lowering your health.
You always tense up and ask yourself the question before pushing forward into a new area: is this really where I want to go?

Talking of encounter and level design in ds3, the game that has excesses and excesses of very wide open spaces even indoors (like the Cathedral of the Deep, I often see DS3 people praise it, I'm like, wut. It's so wide for no purpose, and the encounter design does nothing to make it interesting. The encounters are all highly predictable snoozefests, including the ambushes.), like, are you serious ? the closest thing DS3 gets to having a good level is Irithyll Dungeon and it's a chinese clone of a DeS level. It's also pretty small.
DS3 managed to make swamp areas feel both nonthreatening and also make them extremely numerous to the point of even including that shit in the DLC. What a feat. The bonfire spam really doesn't help making you feel like anything you do while exploring matters. I might die in a place I don't know? It's uh, whatever.

Bloodborne is like DS1 in the low lows and high highs. The moment you get lost for the first time in the Forbidden Woods is just magical. Getting punked and waking up imprisoned in Yahar'Gul, and experiencing the one moment you hear a dark, creepy soundtrack playing in the background while getting your throat sliced for the first time: priceless.
Forbidden Woods is what Road of Sacrifices wishes it could be but isn't.

Elden Ring also has some amazing levels, like Leyndell, the sewers, the underground eldritchy areas..
Please don't lump DS3 with any of these. DS3 is a snoozefest only saved by the spectacle of its boss fights.

Notice a pattern? With each game they might become harder on a mechanical level but they also lose consequences to mistakes and tension. DS3 spams bonfires, Elden Ring not only has tons of sites of grace (which had to be expected for a big open world game I admit) but also has the notion of stakes of marika which you can resurrect to without even realizing they were there when you die somewhere challenging 99% of the time. The tension is gone in these games, with some rare exceptions (you most definitely feel some tension while trying to map the sewers in Elden Ring and look for the next shortcut to unlock to your one and only site of grace.)

 

[Odoryuk]

If you think there's anything approaching Sen's Fortress in DS3 you're deluded

Sen's Fortress is nothing special.

If you think DS3 has any moment that equals what you feel when you get cursed while exploring the depths, early in the game, before you get to teleport from bonfire to bonfire, you're beyond saving.

Each location feels like this in Demon's Souls before you get an access to spell that lets you return to The Nexus without losing your souls.

Yeah, the latter half of DS1 kinda sucks

Not it doesn't, Tomb of the Giants and The Duke's Archives are on of the best levels in Dark Souls. Even Lost Izalith that people love to hate has its own merits with the lava lake and dragon butts which makes an unforgettable encounter.

Talking of encounter and level design in ds3, the game that has excesses and excesses of very wide open spaces even indoors (like the Cathedral of the Deep, I often see DS3 people praise it, I'm like, wut

I mean, you're prasing Sen's Fortress, and I'm also like, wut.

DS3 managed to make swamp areas feel both nonthreatening and also make them extremely numerous to the point of even including that shit in the DLC

DS3 has just 2 more poison swamp areas than DS1 though (Blighttown, bottom of Lost Izalith vs. Farron's Keep, Oceiros's Garden's posion swamp area and bottom of Profaned Capital +DS2 location in the second DLC). And they are pretty threatening.

Bloodborne is like DS1 in the low lows and high highs.

Bloodborne has no lows.

I mean, I can also write shit like "If you don't see Irithyll of the Boreal Valley/Cathedral of the Deep/Dreg Heap/ The Ringed City/Ariandel as one of the greatest locations, you're delusional/autistic/stupid", but I don't like to resort to personal offenses, nor do I think that me liking something that others don't like makes me a great intellectual standing against all the normies, which seems to be the modus operandi of many people here.

 

[cvv]

Dude is a troll, disregard.

 

[Silverfish]

Bloodborne has no lows.

Agreed. The game would need highs to have lows.

 

[Skinwalker]

I mean, I can also write shit like "If you don't see Irithyll of the Boreal Valley/Cathedral of the Deep/Dreg Heap/ The Ringed City/Ariandel as one of the greatest locations, you're delusional/autistic/stupid", but I don't like to resort to personal offenses, nor do I think that me liking something that others don't like makes me a great intellectual standing against all the normies, which seems to be the modus operandi of many people here.

To be fair, these are all really great locations. Except Ariandel. Fuck Frida, and fuck those zombie vikings.

 

[Silva]

I must echo the prestigious friends cvv and Lutte bashing DS3 level design. I mean, it has it's moments in the Cathedral and Irithyll but everything else is mediocre to okay and I speak as someone who actually likes the game for it's bosses, encounters and worldbuilding (I'm a Londor bitch). You really feel like Miyazaki was bored and doing it out of contractual obligation instead of creative impulse.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I mean, I can also write shit like "If you don't see Irithyll of the Boreal Valley/Cathedral of the Deep/Dreg Heap/ The Ringed City/Ariandel as one of the greatest locations, you're delusional/autistic/stupid", but I don't like to resort to personal offenses, nor do I think that me liking something that others don't like makes me a great intellectual standing against all the normies, which seems to be the modus operandi of many people here.

You just listed 4 fucking swamps you faggot.

 

[Odoryuk]

I mean, I can also write shit like "If you don't see Irithyll of the Boreal Valley/Cathedral of the Deep/Dreg Heap/ The Ringed City/Ariandel as one of the greatest locations, you're delusional/autistic/stupid", but I don't like to resort to personal offenses, nor do I think that me liking something that others don't like makes me a great intellectual standing against all the normies, which seems to be the modus operandi of many people here.

You just listed 4 fucking swamps you faggot.

According to International System of Units, a Soulsborne Swamp must have two deciding qualities - to hinder the movement and to apply a negative status effect.
So I mentioned only one swamp there, the DLC2 one, my autistic friend (according to your forum signature, not an insult).

Except Ariandel

Ariandel is the closest thing to Dark Souls 1's interconnected level design full of shortcuts we got since DS1, though, it's a great location through and through.

I mean, it has it's moments in the Cathedral and Irithyll but everything else is mediocre to okay

Smouldering Lake is the only location I would call mediocre. People love to bash Road of Sacrifices but it's a great location with a nice lake setpiece and PvP mechanics. I'm remembering High Wall of Lothric, Grand Archives, Cathedral of the Deep, Undead Settlement, all the DLC areas and I can't fathom how you people can outright pretend that these areas are bad. Unless you're a die hard Dark Souls 2 fan who is very upset that the world hated your game (for very wrong reasons, mind you, I'm not bashing Dark Souls 2 here, I'm protecting Dark Souls 3, as all games in the trylogy are important) and loves Dark Souls 3, so you're a overreacting a lot, I can't explain this behaviour. Surely it can't just stem from contrarianism?

Agreed. The game would need highs to have lows.

They have yet to surpass Bloodborne and I doubt they ever will.

 

[Hell Swarm]

According to International System of Units, a Soulsborne Swamp must have two deciding qualities - to hinder the movement and to apply a negative status effect.
So I mentioned only one swamp there, the DLC2 one, my autistic friend (according to your forum signature, not an insult).

>Soulsborne
You can always tell when someone got into the series post bloodbornes release by their terminology. It's a consistent tell they're a twat and how dishonest they are about the series.

Cathedral of the deep has a literal swamp by your wonky definition and everyone else can tell what a swamp is and how many the games have. Just because it doesn't slow your movement (which I bet you bloodhound step through any way) doesn't stop it being a fucking swamp. It's a body of water that poisons you in some form. And it's always boring as fuck and filled with the same generic enemies.

I don't think you understand the argument you're trying to have with your sub 75 IQ. I don't care if a swamp slows my movement or not. I care that I'm playing a game with 10 fucking swamps, usually using the exact same enemies and with the exact same level design style. It's BORING to do the same thing over and over. And at this point swamps are so over done they have no reason to ever be used again. I've conquered multiple swamps and the best one was in Demon's souls because it was all about the atmosphere and having to traverse a wide open dark space with a count down forced on you. Farron keep is just bloodborne enemies, slow movement and an intentionally confusing lay out supposed to waste the players time. Easily one of the worst areas in any souls game.

They have yet to surpass Bloodborne and I doubt they ever will.

Yea, it's very difficult to surpass a game that can't maintain 30 FPS. It's just such a banger when you see the game stutter while walking down an empty street that looks like every other goddamn street you will be exploring for the next 40 hours. But don't worry because you can look at a barren rocky landscape soon! Oh the excitement is just overwhelming! The most bland game of the entire series is easy to surpass. You make literally anything but a brown and grey mess with shitty combat and the same enemies recycled from the first area to the last.

Not it doesn't, Tomb of the Giants and The Duke's Archives are on of the best levels in Dark Souls. Even Lost Izalith that people love to hate has its own merits with the lava lake and dragon butts which makes an unforgettable encounter.

I don't think you even played the reason why people complained about Lost Izalith. The base version of the level was very different to the version you play now. They copy and pasted about 20 enemies and had the lava so bright it hurt your eyes to look at. It made for a really painful experience. Since they shaved off all the corners you're now left with an area you can run through with zero enemies threatening you because baby souls is what From turns all the games into. And johnny come latelies like yourself join the conversation and think you're some bad ass hardcore gamer for playing on game journo mode.

Bloodborne has no lows.

Tell that to my frame rate faggot.

 

[Odoryuk]

You can always tell when someone got into the series post bloodbornes release by their terminology

I got into their games through King's Field: The Ancient City though.

Cathedral of the deep has a literal swamp by your wonky definition

It doesn't, it's a literal shithole that only slows you down, it doesn't poison you.

I don't care if a swamp slows my movement or not. I care that I'm playing a game with 10 fucking swamps, usually using the exact same enemies and with the exact same level design style. It's BORING to do the same thing over and over.

All the areas you call swamps are different in structure, level design and enemy encounters though. If it's boring to you, fine, but don't pretend these areas objecively bad.

I don't think you even played the reason why people complained about Lost Izalith. The base version of the level was very different to the version you play now. They copy and pasted about 20 enemies and had the lava so bright it hurt your eyes to look at. It made for a really painful experience. Since they shaved off all the corners you're now left with an area you can run through with zero enemies threatening you because baby souls is what From turns all the games into.

What are you talking about? The only difference between 1.0 and current patched version is that Dragon Butts don't respawn, otherwise it's the same area. And it's for the best, though it was a good soul farming area as these butts tended to kill each other. The lava is still bright as fuck as it was in 1.0 and the level geometry wasn't changed in the slightest.

Tell that to my frame rate faggot.

Framerate has no bearing on how good the game is percieved.

 

[Hell Swarm]

All the areas you call swamps are different in structure, level design and enemy encounters though. If it's boring to you, fine, but don't pretend these areas objecively bad.

Have you got a peer reviewed study to back that up you objective queer?

 

[Odoryuk]

Have you got a peer reviewed study to back that up you objective queer?

Have you?

 

[Hell Swarm]

Have you got a peer reviewed study to back that up you objective queer?

Have you?

Yes

PHD

Your opinion is not objective fact and there are many ways Dark souls 3 is a huge step back from previous games.

 

[Odoryuk]

Your opinion is not objective fact and there are many ways Dark souls 3 is a huge step back from previous games.

I never insisted that opinions I state are objective facts, nor did I ever insinuated that Dark Souls 3 is a flawless game. But I want to present an alternative opinion on DS3's level design for people here who never played the game and could decide to skip it and form a negative opinion on the game based on the word of mouth alone, something that happened to DS2 years ago.

I do insist that Bloodborne is flawless though.

 

[Silva]

Smouldering Lake is the only location I would call mediocre. People love to bash Road of Sacrifices but it's a great location with a nice lake setpiece and PvP mechanics. I'm remembering High Wall of Lothric, Grand Archives, Cathedral of the Deep, Undead Settlement, all the DLC areas and I can't fathom how you people can outright pretend that these areas are bad. Unless you're a die hard Dark Souls 2 fan who is very upset that the world hated your game (for very wrong reasons, mind you, I'm not bashing Dark Souls 2 here, I'm protecting Dark Souls 3, as all games in the trylogy are important) and loves Dark Souls 3, so you're a overreacting a lot, I can't explain this behaviour. Surely it can't just stem from contrarianism?

Okay I forgot about High Wall/Lothric Castle, Undead Setttlement and Grand Archives. They're actually good.

On Road of Sacrifices though, together with Crucifiction Woods and Farron Swamp it forms the Swamp Trident of Shit. Even if it has some quality none redeems the polygonal trees, puke inducing color palette and cringey swamp/water mechanics that don't manage to be threatening nor exciting to traverse. It's possibly the worst sequence of maps in all Soulsdom, and the one in every DS3 playthrough that really tests my will to keep on playing.

I do insist that Bloodborne is flawless though.

I agree.

 

[Odoryuk]

Even if it has some quality none redeems the polygonal trees, puke inducing color palette and cringey swamp/water mechanics that don't manage to be threatening nor exciting to traverse. It's possibly the worst sequence of maps in all Soulsdom, and the one in every DS3 playthrough that really tests my will to keep on playing.

Personally I do love how Crucifiction Woods look, it has this classic FromSoft autumn feel, and it's one the few locations that feel serene, I guess distant whale cries help with that. Farron Swamp does look pretty drab. with dim lighting and such, but I love how it plays, it is really a circle which you can traverse in both directions, realising this for the first time was a great experience. I also love the bridge set piece, which connects Farron Keep to the Undead Settlement, albeit only visually, though. The encounter with the demon is one of my favorites, and I always visit it even when I don't need to make Havel's Ring. That little skirmish between Darkwraiths and Ghrus is also pretty fun, and I love how the area before the boss connects back to Crucifiction Woods, even if there's almost no use for that connection.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I do insist that Bloodborne is flawless though.

30 FPS with frame rate drops happening all over the place is far from flawless in a game as fast as bloodborne.
Inputs being dropped
Camera lock on dropping during boss fights
Multiple flailing bosses where the hair physics covers up half the animation so it looks like a mess
The big reveal is rather lack luster and a bunch of aliens appearing spoils the victorian horror vibe they had going on for no benefit.
NPCs are almost exclusively windows that talk to you
Quest lines are still shit and talking to windows isn't fun
Rips off Demon's souls Yurt and does it worse in almost every way
Chalice dungeons are a giant waste of time with no level design or unique features adding hundreds of hours to a game to fight unique bosses most people will never see because the grind is not worth it.

There's other issues and they're just the blindly obvious ones. Bloodborne is probably the biggest flawed game of the whole series. It's a failed experiment nu souls fans wank off because they have no taste and justify their existence through bad PS4 games.

 

[Odoryuk]

I do insist that Bloodborne is flawless though.

30 FPS with frame rate drops happening all over the place is far from flawless in a game as fast as bloodborne.
Inputs being dropped
Camera lock on dropping during boss fights
Multiple flailing bosses where the hair physics covers up half the animation so it looks like a mess
The big reveal is rather lack luster and a bunch of aliens appearing spoils the victorian horror vibe they had going on for no benefit.
NPCs are almost exclusively windows that talk to you
Quest lines are still shit and talking to windows isn't fun
Rips off Demon's souls Yurt and does it worse in almost every way
Chalice dungeons are a giant waste of time with no level design or unique features adding hundreds of hours to a game to fight unique bosses most people will never see because the grind is not worth it.

There's other issues and they're just the blindly obvious ones. Bloodborne is probably the biggest flawed game of the whole series. It's a failed experiment nu souls fans wank off because they have no taste and justify their existence through bad PS4 games.

Still the best FS game. I spent more time in Chalice Dungeons alone than in Dark Souls 2 + 3 DLCs + Scholar of the First Sin (with DLC areas) together.

 

[Val Doom]

Still the best FS game.

Not a chance in hell when Sekiro exists

 

[Odoryuk]

Still the best FS game.

Not a chance in hell when Sekiro exists

Honestly, I can understand people who love it the most, but personally I'm more into action rpgs, when damage numbers go up, it feels good.

 

[Silva]

[Bloodborne] Still the best FS game.

Not a chance in hell when Sekiro exists

 

[cvv]

Bloodborne absolutely isn't flawless but it's still great.

The biggest flaws are:
- very linear world
- most levels are a notable slump in quality compared to DS1
- farmable healing items suck a gigantic landwhale ass and will be always inferior to a rechargeable flask; literally no idea why they brought this shit back from dead after everyone hated it in DeS
- PvP is by far the worst in any souls game ever; fast and furious is definitely not conducive to enjoyable PvP
- co-op is a mess, way too many pointless frills and limitations
- warping to the dream first and then to a desired location is dumb and obnoxious, plus can't reset the world without warping
- chalice dungeons are exactly as bad as everybody says
- bosses: let's be honest, in the base game they're all over the place; some are great (Gascoigne, Logarius, Gherman), many are meh or downright obnoxious; DS3 is overall a garbage souls game but they really stepped up their boss game here compared to DeS, DS1, DS2 and BB
- by far the worst NPCs in all FS games
- weapons that are there are great but the wep selection is far from amazing
- clothing selection is even more meagre
- NG+ is just as boring as all the other Miyazaki directed games; why this dude hates the kind of NG+ innovations that DS2 came up with will always be my weirdest mystery
- insight sounds good, is mostly pointless
- arcane is just bad and stop defending it
- build variety is the worst in any FS game; understandable, give the game is trying to do things differently, but it's still a fact and it still bums you out in NG+ runs
- the art style is an amazing masterpiece but it feels like the only colors are grey and black; game is way too dour and grimdark, even considering the overall vibe

I'm sure I could find a few more items if I felt like it but this^ doesn't look like a flawless game to me.

Still, DS1 is probably the most flawed game FS have ever made and it's still the best. It's not the flaws that matter, it's how good is the rest.