KickStarter Dead State Pre-Release Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Infinitron]

So who is on the steam discussions page trying to drum up recruits ?

Hey 96Beryl, please register here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/
Codex is a great place for you. You can continue your fight against Dead State there.

Tavicroix

Tavicroix was last seen:
Aug 7, 2009

 

[likaq]

It's me.
Tavicroix is my old account but I lost password to that account ( and mail too ).

 

[Infinitron]

It's me.
Tavicroix is my old account but I lost password to that account ( and mail too ).

OK, DarkUnderlord can help you with that if you want.

 

[Excidium]

I am. I don't like either.

Now i get why they say you are a contrarian. What i am saying is that they equally bad, or good depending on your perspective.

That's nothing contrarian about that, I always made it p. clear that I don't like cooldowns. I like systems that make sense within the setting, which cooldowns rarely do.

This game is a lot about managing stress, so why didn't they make the leadership ability affect that? The limiting factor could be how different npcs react to being barked at, their own ability to regain composure, the circumstances, etc and the effect it has on their mental condition. Instead you can use it with the only consideration of having to wait for a while before you can use it again, how interesting.

 

[Shadowfang]

Its not about if you like or not cooldowns, its if they are as valid as x/per day on which you said:

That's basically the same thing, just with abstracted time.

I am sure we can all agree that there are better ways to make skills than using these restrictions.
I was just poking at people who have a knee jerking reaction to the dirty word cooldown but are fine with x/per day that are just as bad.
This clearly isn't your case, since you have stated that you dislike both which does nothing to contradict that the first is as valid as the former.

 

[tuluse]

Its not about if you like or not cooldowns, its if they are as valid as x/per day on which you said:

I am sure we can all agree that there are better ways to make skills than using these restrictions.
I was just poking at people who have a knee jerking reaction to the dirty word cooldown but are fine with x/per day that are just as bad.
This clearly isn't your case, since you have stated that you dislike both which does nothing to contradict that the first is as valid as the former.

X times per day is a totally different calculus.

If it's a cooldown, you can waste time and eventually you'll get the abilities back. If it's per/encounter or per/day, you know the total number of times you can use an ability before it's gone for good for that encounter (and possibly multiple encounters). This means you're managing a strategic resource.

 

[Infinitron]

Its not about if you like or not cooldowns, its if they are as valid as x/per day on which you said:

I am sure we can all agree that there are better ways to make skills than using these restrictions.
I was just poking at people who have a knee jerking reaction to the dirty word cooldown but are fine with x/per day that are just as bad.
This clearly isn't your case, since you have stated that you dislike both which does nothing to contradict that the first is as valid as the former.

X times per day is a totally different calculus.

If it's a cooldown, you can waste time and eventually you'll get the abilities back. If it's per/encounter or per/day, you know the total number of times you can use an ability before it's gone for good for that encounter (and possibly multiple encounters). This means you're managing a strategic resource.

The dynamics of "wasting time" are usually a bit different in turn-based combat though.

 

[Shadowfang]

Its not about if you like or not cooldowns, its if they are as valid as x/per day on which you said:

I am sure we can all agree that there are better ways to make skills than using these restrictions.
I was just poking at people who have a knee jerking reaction to the dirty word cooldown but are fine with x/per day that are just as bad.
This clearly isn't your case, since you have stated that you dislike both which does nothing to contradict that the first is as valid as the former.

X times per day is a totally different calculus.

If it's a cooldown, you can waste time and eventually you'll get the abilities back. If it's per/encounter or per/day, you know the total number of times you can use an ability before it's gone for good for that encounter (and possibly multiple encounters). This means you're managing a strategic resource.

Cooldowns, in the games i played, where only relevant during battles in which you could not waste turns just to get them back.
And resting didn't add much to DnD based games i played. Lets all rest in the kitchen pray that we aren't disturbed by lizardmen and if we are, well load game.

 

[tuluse]

The dynamics of "wasting time" are usually a bit different in turn-based combat though.

This is about zombies. Just run in the opposite direction with all your AP and you'll be fine.

Cooldowns, in the games i played, where only relevant during battles in which you could not waste turns just to get them back.
And resting didn't add much to DnD based games i played. Lets all rest in the kitchen pray that we aren't disturbed by lizardmen and if we are, well load game.

Video games can be exploited, news at 11.

Edit: you still didn't address per encounter concerns.

 

[Shadowfang]

The dynamics of "wasting time" are usually a bit different in turn-based combat though.

This is about zombies. Just run in the opposite direction with all your AP and you'll be fine.

But what if one of your buddies is panicking? You cant control him, you cant make him run in the opposite direction.
And there aren't only zombies, there are also other human looters, armed with fire arms.

 

[tuluse]

But what if one of your buddies is panicking? You cant control him, you cant make him run in the opposite direction.
And there aren't only zombies, there are also other human looters, armed with fire arms.

This is indeed a cool idea, but has nothing to do with cooldowns.

Edit: In fact cooldowns make this *less* cool. It's now obvious what to do, try to control the panicked character if available, otherwise try to keep him safe. If it wasn't cooldown based, you'd have to choose each turn what the best course of action would be.

 

[Shadowfang]

Its not just an idea, its a feature of the game.
It has as much to do with cooldowns as your wasting time maneuvers in turn based games.

Edit:

Edit: In fact cooldowns make this *less* cool. It's now obvious what to do, try to control the panicked character if available, otherwise try to keep him safe. If it wasn't cooldown based, you'd have to choose each turn what the best course of action would be.

I can't relate to your over simplified scenarios, as i lack experience on shitty games, nor to your fallacious conclusions.
You have no idea how long the cooldown is nor what impact it has on the game, and i seriously doubt that your strategies would work on any game.

 

[Branm]

Dead State released. No-one gives a fuck.

Most frequent subject at steam communities?

The price.

Ummm or maybe its the fact that you are forced to play with a specific character and any sort of skill point distribution isnt even in the early access...

 

[Infinitron]

Dead State released. No-one gives a fuck.

Most frequent subject at steam communities?

The price.

Ummm or maybe its the fact that you are forced to play with a specific character and any sort of skill point distribution isnt even in the early access...

He's talking about gaming journalists. It's their job to report new games. Nobody gives a fuck about that grognard butthurt.

RPS broke the news an hour ago, however: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/02/14/rising-dead-states-early-access-demo/

 

[Jedi Exile]

God I hate rotating camera! Otherwise I kinda like the game. The writing is indeed rather minimalistic, but there are some good jokes now and then.

 

[Excidium]

And all character's non-plot dialog is like this... seriously, who ask others "What do you think of me?"

That is actually lampshaded. If you pick it the girl says "what a weird thing to ask."

Another thing, this game needs fog of war, NOW! You go into the city, you can freely move your camera and see everything... and then you walk somehwere, enemies suddenly materialize from nowhere:

Why do this instead of fog of war? Why challenge what designers have been doing for decade now? Not only this looks stupid, but I have no idea of how far I can see anyway. It seems to be a very short radius, and to balance that, enemies are almost blind (not to mention static).

There is a fog of war, it's just not visual represented. The zombies in Llano do not spawn out of no where they place there.

They should have gone for a visual line of sight like in Nox for example. It's so sexy and I can't think of a game with multiple characters that does it

 

[Kron]

They should have gone for a visual line of sight like in Nox for example. It's so sexy and I can't think of a game with multiple characters that does it

X-COM did it in 1994.

 

[Excidium]

I mean the smooth line style of Nox or whatever it is called, not tile-based

 

[Kron]

I think that's the only game ever with fog of war + line of sight.
Silent Storm had line of sight for enemy spotting but the whole map was revealed at mission start.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

It's me.
Tavicroix is my old account but I lost password to that account ( and mail too ).

OK, DarkUnderlord can help you with that if you want.

I am now selling the account: Tavicroix

Old account with few posts still in good working order. 2009 join date guarantees access to GD, post editing and brofists. Low mileage with just 23 messages. Make an offer and it can be yours today!

 

[skuphundaku]

I'll take it for $10, but you have to erase the memory of you selling it to me afterwards, just in case I have to do some undercover alting. Deal?

 

[Roguey]

Remember when I considered the possibility that Dead State could be more polished than Wasteland 2 or Divinity:OS? Forget about it.

My favorite Steam forum complaints are the ones about how angry they are about DoubleBear charging money for a demo. Even though AoD, M&MX, Blackguards, Wasteland 2, and D:OS could all be considered EA demos.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

That's obviously flawed, but it doesn't seem unfixable. Implementing Attacks of Opportunity or interrupts could fix that right quick.

 

[felipepepe]

It shows well how weird the lack of a visible fog of war is. You can see the insides of the house perfectly, there's no "proper" exploration, you never feel like you're venturing into the unknown. All you do is walk around and hover the objects inside to see if one of the arbitrarily is lootable.

I'm gonna be mean and say that's not a design choice, but some engine/budget limitation for making a visible fog or war that uncovers the terrain and static objects while respecting level geometry & line of sight.

 

[Roguey]

That's obviously flawed, but it doesn't seem unfixable. Implementing Attacks of Opportunity or interrupts could fix that right quick.

Zones of Control were a stretch goal they couldn't reach during the Kickstarter campaign (and even then they would have been included in a post-release expansion pack), I wouldn't expect 'em unless the EA sales are better than anticipated.