In Progress DECLINE 22: Primitive Proliferation

[Grimwulf]

WILL SOMEBODY END THIS MAN'S SUFFERING?

Did nab some helhirdings/thugs up north with less embarrassing performance from the home team so there's that at least.

Battle in question:

If you look closely, you might notice that those Helhirdings were all affliction-ridden cripples, unworthy to fight in the Helhird. They found glorious death on the battlefield and will wait for their brethren in Helhalla.

Guess this is what I get not going for that Blood Vengeance bless when I had the chance

BV is great for Marverni, but you would lose the ability to bring boars as chaff for your major armies. Your boars have very low MR, nothing can fix that. Everyone and his dog can pull off Beast Mastery in EA, using indy mages and communion, or simply Ivy King with boosters. In midgame simple Wildness spam would break your ranks and fuck up army advancing.

But raiding stacks of boars would be much more effective under BV bless.

Anyone has sage advice in getting the Sequanis to actually target the thugs? Stellar Cascades goes on the chaff; as does Mind Burn regardless of distance (guessing the targeting algorithm doesn't fancy their MR). Massed Star Fires spam could work, except they don't seem to cast it once they go off-script. It's a conondrum, really.

I rather enjoy this war. It's an honest 1 vs 1 war, which is the best thing in Dominions. Honestly, I expected you to give up on the game after first turns of this war, and now I am happy to see this conflict escalading into something beautiful.

You figured out Magic Duels finally. Annoying for me, but won't get you closer to victory. It's not something that can stop Helheim. The counter is there - it's tricky, but it's there.

Dis Pater is watching you closely, God of Boars.

 

[Isiloon]

Vine shield does need a nerf I think, it's massive over-use compared to every other shield is testament of how much better it is - and it doesn't have an efficient counter.

I was in another game and my Kraken who had a vineshield got attacked by Ysian knights, they broke his shield and he died pretty much instantly after that - lesson learned was that high MR guys with multiple 15+ damage attacks each will wreck a vine shield guy.

So - white centaurs and ozelotls will do the trick me thinks, thunder strikes will do the trick.... for Marverni I guess you could use gifts from heaven and hope they hit, earth meld with a communion, petrify... none of which are really amazing.

 

[mondblut]

Isn't any kind of entanglement countered by high str or large size or whatever? I have a hard time imagining an entangled golem.

And I am pretty sure fire attacks of fire elementals don't care about neither glamour nor defense, being AOE? In my sp games they fry more ponies than everything else combined.

 

[Isiloon]

Lets ask wise sage Grimwulf about the entanglement, please share your knowledge so we may all use it against you

 

[Grimwulf]

Vine shield does need a nerf I think, it's massive over-use compared to every other shield is testament of how much better it is - and it doesn't have an efficient counter.

It works well against chaff, that's it.

Useless against ranged units
Useless against anything non-chaff (elite sacreds don't give a shit)
Useless against high MR
Useless againt high str (a couple powerful hits break the shield completely and forever - you'll need to forge a new one)

Also, low cost.

Frankly, playing Niefelheim in Dom 4 I preferred Shield of the Accursed. In Dom 5 there is even better option - Ice Aegis. And I don't remember ever using Vine Shield on Golems.

Isn't any kind of entanglement countered by high str or large size or whatever? I have a hard time imagining an entangled golem.

Lets ask wise sage Grimwulf about the entanglement, please share your knowledge so we may all use it against you

High str helps you get out of entanglement faster. If you don't want to get entangled in the first place, you need MR.

Dayyālu I need 6 more hours extension please. Done 3/4 of the turn, almost there.

 

[Infinitum]

You figured out Magic Duels finally. Annoying for me, but won't get you closer to victory. It's not something that can stop Helheim. The counter is there - it's tricky, but it's there.

Dis Pater is watching you closely, God of Boars.

Nah, that was me wanting to test Duel in a controlled enviroment (should've scripted personal luck come thinking of it - oops). Killing that mage wouldn't really have made any difference what with you having easy access to Spectral Mages/Shademails. That stack is effectively off limits either way. Guess I could try Astral Geyser communions next, 2 damage a pop MR negates looks underwhelming, but at least it wont target the constructs and has a large AoE. Or bite the bullet and go for Druid communions but would rather find a use for the mage 1/4th of the price. Not sure why you thought I'd bail on this when there's plenty of life left in this corpse to enjoy.

 

[mondblut]

Frankly, playing Niefelheim in Dom 4 I preferred Shield of the Accursed. In Dom 5 there is even better option - Ice Aegis.

But why? Horrormarking enemies won't exactly help you go through this particular battle. And pretty much pointless against non-commanders unless you casually summon horrors in battles all the time.

And ice aegis, wtf? It's pretty much the weightless/blacksteel kite shield, give or take +1 to this or -1 to that. Dunno, I might be a shit player, but if an item doesn't grant some kind of special ability, it doesn't exist. (+mr items are the only exception)

 

[KoolNoodles]

Frankly, playing Niefelheim in Dom 4 I preferred Shield of the Accursed. In Dom 5 there is even better option - Ice Aegis.

But why? Horrormarking enemies won't exactly help you go through this particular battle. And pretty much pointless against non-commanders unless you casually summon horrors in battles all the time.

And ice aegis, wtf? It's pretty much the weightless/blacksteel kite shield, give or take +1 to this or -1 to that. Dunno, I might be a shit player, but if an item doesn't grant some kind of special ability, it doesn't exist. (+mr items are the only exception)

There are some other things to consider wrt shields and thugs. Cost/availability are also important. Ice Aegies is one path(easy enough for most nations) and 10 gems, also at just Con2.

I prefer Charcoal/Gleaming Gold/Scutata(though that won't work with Vans) for various thug uses, but they are all later and require either multiple paths or gem types. Grim was talking about Vans in particular I believe, which is why he mentioned Shield of the Accursed(A/B) as an option.

Probably difficult to get or rely on F/E cross path and Con6.

Edit: Woops, thought Grim was talking about Helheim not Niefelheim. Eh, same thing.

 

[Grimwulf]

Frankly, playing Niefelheim in Dom 4 I preferred Shield of the Accursed. In Dom 5 there is even better option - Ice Aegis.

But why? Horrormarking enemies won't exactly help you go through this particular battle. And pretty much pointless against non-commanders unless you casually summon horrors in battles all the time.

And ice aegis, wtf? It's pretty much the weightless/blacksteel kite shield, give or take +1 to this or -1 to that. Dunno, I might be a shit player, but if an item doesn't grant some kind of special ability, it doesn't exist. (+mr items are the only exception)

It's all about cost efficiency. Playing Niefelheim, you're always low on N gems, since you need N for a fuckton of things.

Ice Aegis works for Jarls better than Vine Shield. When you fight chaff and have around 30 prot, there is no need to entangle attackers. It gives you Ice Prot 1, adding to native Ice Prot 3 of the Jarls. Then you just gotta find cold enough battleground and stand there until all surrounding enemies fall to your chill aura.

Skrattis fight differentely - they don't care about temperature and have much lower encumbrance. Thus they can cast Quicken Self without danger of fatiguing out (that's only true if you have reinvigor 2 bless + boots of the messenger). Quickness and their native defence skill combined makes them extremely hard to hit, and that synergizes with Shield of the Accursed (additional +2 def, parry 7 compared to parry 5 of Vine Shield). Even when they do land a hit, Skrattis regen and can cast Liquid Body, they simply don't care.

Don't get me wrong, other nations have no prob wasting N gems on Vine Shields. I'm just saying it's not universally best option for everyone.

 

[KoolNoodles]

Well, well fought everyone. Never did get things to line up Army-wise in this one. Going to go AI. At least Mufasa came back.....one turn too late.

Going to set to AI and donate my items to....eh, Mictlan I guess.

Edit: There you go. Does this happen before going AI? I don't know if I've ever done that.

Spoiler

 

[Infinitum]

Another day, another SCIENCE:

Problem: Boars apparently can't repair walls. Forgot to remove Sequani from the premises before black metal elves move in. 9 Sequani trapped in doomed castle.

What I wanted:
1. Sequani sensibly communion up, 3 of them taking it for the team
1. Elder Druid teleports in, brass balls swinging in the wind
2. Light of the Northern Star
3. Everyone casts Returning, thumbing their noses at charging Vans.

What I got:
1. Elder Druid teleports in, brass balls swinging in the wind
2. Vans fall, everyone dies

So.. today I've learned single Teleports can fail as well? I guess?

EDIT: Checked old turn file; apparently I fiddled to much and the Druid ended up defending instead of saving the day. I guess I can fail as well. Oops.

 

[sqeecoo]

Seems like this game is getting eventful.

On my end, I'm pleased that Icelanders name their streets after RPGs:

Spoiler

 

[mondblut]

Ice Aegis works for Jarls better than Vine Shield. When you fight chaff and have around 30 prot, there is no need to entangle attackers. It gives you Ice Prot 1, adding to native Ice Prot 3 of the Jarls. Then you just gotta find cold enough battleground and stand there until all surrounding enemies fall to your chill aura.

Skrattis fight differentely - they don't care about temperature and have much lower encumbrance. Thus they can cast Quicken Self without danger of fatiguing out (that's only true if you have reinvigor 2 bless + boots of the messenger). Quickness and their native defence skill combined makes them extremely hard to hit, and that synergizes with Shield of the Accursed (additional +2 def, parry 7 compared to parry 5 of Vine Shield). Even when they do land a hit, Skrattis regen and can cast Liquid Body, they simply don't care.

Well, my thugs tend to fight armies worth several hundreds of chaff, so vine shield is the only thing that carries them through 50-75 turns of getting battered from 7 sides.

 

[Grimwulf]

What I got:
1. Elder Druid teleports in, brass balls swinging in the wind
2. Vans fall, everyone dies

It's even more funny when you know what happened during previous turns.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

But hey, you're not the only one failing. This battle - wtf?

This was a heroic Vanherse. With heroic valor no less!

But then SUDDENLY BOARS!

HE WASN'T HIT ONCE!

 

[Isiloon]

Well, my thugs tend to fight armies worth several hundreds of chaff, so vine shield is the only thing that carries them through 50-75 turns of getting battered from 7 sides.

Where were your thugs in this game comrade


... in other news

Spoiler

Machaka counter attacked the besieging army to inflict maximum damage without routing the Myrmecoleon.
One of the mages had E5 so I thought he would cast earthquake, but he didnt have the gems and died instantly to deep-strike pegasus riders.

Can you cast swarm with 1N mages with a nature gem?

Spoiler

but thats not all!

Spoiler

he managed to call back his Myrmecoleon fast enough to defend the castle, I wasn't expecting it to be there and lost more guys than expected, but Myrmecoleon decided that Satyrs taste better than centaurs - so 3 centaurs managed to get a spot behind him and slowly poke him to death, while he was busy eating satyrs.

The 3 angry centaurs at the back did most of the work, still losing 30 centaurs sucks.

Myrmecoleon did one last stand, with 3 afflictions and no help, it almost won - I guess temp magic gem items only work once per turn not once per battle? based on Pans not using Cornucopia and bee-sting not enraging him like before.

 

[mondblut]

Where were your thugs in this game comrade

Niggercolon ate them, then run out of money to buy more

Sheeit, I thought I told I am attacking there?

 

[Infinitum]

Also that initial battle.. ugh. I was expecting a large raiding party but instead got an army 3 times my size in gold. Especially losing those Druids hurt, the lazy geriatric fucks both got caught like one step away from safety. The rest were expendable; both my economy and army size have increased during the war (spreading scales through former Berytos). Should've dipped a scout in earlier, NaP be damned. Kind of wish I'd thought of communioning-returning the mages earlier (and not losing 20+ gems/items to a misclick), but you live and learn. Current state of the war for the curious (also remove your goddamn scouts, hunting is hard enough without prying eyes acting as ablative armor):

Spoiler

Losing every major engagement, taking horrible losses yet economic and industrial capabilities in the east are almost untouched. Sounds familiar, comrade?

 

[Grimwulf]

Need 24h extension. Or 72h timer. Or a sub.

 

[Isiloon]

Need 24h extension. Or 72h timer. Or a sub.

Lebowski waves magic wand and extends

 

[Isiloon]

Expectation

Reality

 

[Dayyālu]

*description may not match expectation of Final User
For complaints and requests of refunds,
send parchment to:
Void, Lair of Kurgi, Slave to Unreason
Astral Corruption Corp: Because We Care

 

[Isiloon]

this spider is very large

 

[Trash Player]

Indeed

 

[sqeecoo]

I'm back bros, but tired as fuck. I'll handle the dominions stuff tomorrow, if that's ok

 

[mondblut]

Why it is a "magic being"?