-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Deltarune - episodic Undertale sequel
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 100,441
Ivan
Arcane
I welcome this second coming of the Mother series <3
Actually held off on Chapter 1 for the full release, will go ahead and dive in now! Curious to see how much more expansive this is compared to the inaugural title
Actually held off on Chapter 1 for the full release, will go ahead and dive in now! Curious to see how much more expansive this is compared to the inaugural title
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
It has actual gameplay instead of say Disco Elysium at least...
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 100,441
S.torch
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2019
- Messages
- 1,176
I already played and completed the Chapter 2.
And liked it. I don't know how, but they make this chapter even more interesting. But I bet that has something to do with the Queen character, she was so cute.
The final fight with her was awesome, and the ending in general too. Obviously, the only correct thing to do is sparing her. I liked how she was dressed for the final fight too.
There are many other thing I could say, but I will leave at it for now. I will wait for the rest of the chapters with the same enthusiasm that I waited for this one.
Also
YOU'RE BIG BIG SHOT
BIG BIG BIG SHOT!
And liked it. I don't know how, but they make this chapter even more interesting. But I bet that has something to do with the Queen character, she was so cute.
The final fight with her was awesome, and the ending in general too. Obviously, the only correct thing to do is sparing her. I liked how she was dressed for the final fight too.
There are many other thing I could say, but I will leave at it for now. I will wait for the rest of the chapters with the same enthusiasm that I waited for this one.
Also
YOU'RE BIG BIG SHOT
BIG BIG BIG SHOT!
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
Finally managed to finish this, with a mostly pacifist route. I might replay it again after re-doing 1st chapter as a super-pacifist as well, as the game encourages that. Much better than the 1st episode, it shows that toby has learned and done his work, with lots of reactions to your actions, for good and bad.
The second chapter is a dark world based on the internet, which is probably there's random dialogue and stupid memes aplenty. Funny that it also has some legit criticism of people's over-reliance on the 'net too.
However, IMO it seems that Toby at some point got unsure how to follow and went with the quick and dirty route: Romances!
Worse, the alphabet soup elements are more obvious here, but they still don't get in the way (yet), but going woke ends up with ending broke, invariably, as these people are insane and WILL turn against you. I hope you know this if you happen to be reading this topic, tobyfox (unlikely).
Seeing how everyone refers to Kris as "they", even his mom Toriel, who happens to be very religious and traditional now, looks very dumb, especially because everyone else follows the "two genders" rule.
In any case, gameplay and music are as awesome as always.
Hopefully next chapters (which IIRC are mentioned to be 3-5 out of 7) will not take YEARS to release like this one. We can only hope.
Including the return of the evil route, in a particularly twisted and really morally evil variant.
The second chapter is a dark world based on the internet, which is probably there's random dialogue and stupid memes aplenty. Funny that it also has some legit criticism of people's over-reliance on the 'net too.
However, IMO it seems that Toby at some point got unsure how to follow and went with the quick and dirty route: Romances!
Worse, the alphabet soup elements are more obvious here, but they still don't get in the way (yet), but going woke ends up with ending broke, invariably, as these people are insane and WILL turn against you. I hope you know this if you happen to be reading this topic, tobyfox (unlikely).
Seeing how everyone refers to Kris as "they", even his mom Toriel, who happens to be very religious and traditional now, looks very dumb, especially because everyone else follows the "two genders" rule.
In any case, gameplay and music are as awesome as always.
Hopefully next chapters (which IIRC are mentioned to be 3-5 out of 7) will not take YEARS to release like this one. We can only hope.
Zerth
Arbiter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2016
- Messages
- 415
Finished both chapter. Deltarune is quite an improvement compared to Undertale, the leap of quality in gameplay makes the game a bit more enjoyable to anyone without an acquired taste in bullet hell and Paper Mario esque stuff.
Everything else is quite a lot of the same Undertale antics: more characters, more interactions, wackier battles and villains, gayer, and eventually seems to be more lineal from beggining to end.
So far Deltarune setting's reactivity is mostly conveyed during the playthrough without altering the ending's outcome of an episode, I don't care much for that, but I wonder how much of significance will bear the consequences of some events that eventually will carry over to another episode. Still, either the pacifist or murderous routes are rather rigid aswell: you can't miss anything and meet every requirement in order to remain on track, otherwise, you get funneled into the episode's neutral route. Regardless, deltarun'es essentially a heavily scripted jrpg with a lot of genre's typical limitations and tropes, so in that regard feels shitty, despite of all the lampshading It wants to convey.
The only thing that genuinelly sucks is the fandom. The amount of dumbfuck zoomers reminding everyone that the proper pronouns of the MC are they/them is endless.
The soundtrack is truly something else btw.
Everything else is quite a lot of the same Undertale antics: more characters, more interactions, wackier battles and villains, gayer, and eventually seems to be more lineal from beggining to end.
So far Deltarune setting's reactivity is mostly conveyed during the playthrough without altering the ending's outcome of an episode, I don't care much for that, but I wonder how much of significance will bear the consequences of some events that eventually will carry over to another episode. Still, either the pacifist or murderous routes are rather rigid aswell: you can't miss anything and meet every requirement in order to remain on track, otherwise, you get funneled into the episode's neutral route. Regardless, deltarun'es essentially a heavily scripted jrpg with a lot of genre's typical limitations and tropes, so in that regard feels shitty, despite of all the lampshading It wants to convey.
The only thing that genuinelly sucks is the fandom. The amount of dumbfuck zoomers reminding everyone that the proper pronouns of the MC are they/them is endless.
Ralsei's after hearing the idiotic idea proposed by both Noelle and Berdly of opening more dark fountains for fun.
The soundtrack is truly something else btw.
Last edited:
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
Linear is unfortunately a necessity due the episodic nature. At least there's lots of interactivity and reactivity. For example, backtracking after defeating the Queen for the first time lets you discover lots of funny stuff since NPCs change. There are videos about that already if you don't wish to waste time.
It is indeed more gay, and the romance bits are tackled on. An unfortunate consequence of today's clown world. Worse, Rasiel pretty much comes onto you out of nowhere like a Bioware character, but at least you can fend him off. There are also hints that Kriss likes Suzie, of all people.
Not really? Pacifist route is the same as neutral one. You just have to try using non-lethal tactics as the 1st chapter taught you (some bosses from chapter 2 cannot be killed just like the 1st one to drive the point further). All it changes if you have a full pacifist playthrough or not is to make the final battle with the queen easier or harder, and some bonus cutscenes to play or not.
Regarding the evil route, that one is harder to stumble upon, but once you're here, knowing what to do is quite obvious. The bonus boss is also pretty much told to you word for word how to find him.
What I hope is that the evil route is fun to play instead of the one from UT, which was simpler to do but dull, even though the Super-Undyne battle was awesome, and you need to do this route to get what you were missing part of the story (although Sans' battle is ridiculously hard). Mixed signals anyone?
Shame we didn't get to fight an Asgore powered by the six souls, as one dialogue stated.
Agreed, the fans are retarded, and arguing about Kriss' gender will likely get you countered with "b-but muh intersex people!".
It's especially dumb how the game insists with the "they" pronoun, seeing that Toriel and co knew the MC from when he was a kid, instead of never have seen a human and thus not knowing what they were dealing with like the first game.
No matter how Twitter screams, Kriss should be a boy or a girl from birth, and he looks like a boy.
I remember how the "he" default pronoun was eventually replaced by "she", later "they", which can cause confusion when you don't know if the subject is a single entity or multiple and it could apply to both. "Themself" is also another made-up word.
I wonder if with that blatant name he'll be killed at some point only to resurrect or something like that.
Duraframe300
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2010
- Messages
- 6,395
Alphabet soup and fandom sadly always drop these games on my *to play* list, to the point I'm probably never going to check them out/finish them (As I do with sadly quite a few recent games). Maybe someday when the world has become a little more normal/clown world takes a breather and I can look at them more clearly.
I mean *fabously optimistic*, but hey...
I mean *fabously optimistic*, but hey...
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
Then you'll have to keep waiting for a loong time. You could check out the first chapter, since it is free and has no woke bullshit. Or give a try to Undertale if you haven't done so already.
Sadly that won't happen anytime soon. Even the Ruskies demonstrated they're even worse, seeing the state of Cringefinder. Only Japan is mostly pozz-free, and there are attempts at "fixing" that already.
It's funny, I remember the Earthbound's games' fandom wasn't that insane. There were good things done such as well-drawn comics, an attempt to port Mother 1 to the SNES game (which sadly failed), tons of mods, awesome hand-crafted figures and a hint book for Mother 3, etc.
Meanwhile, for Undertale, while there's cool stuff done by the fans here and there, the fanbase is mostly toxic, and perhaps even more autistic than the first ones. I wonder if it has to do with the fact the UT game has fans straight out that Homestuck comic thing, which from what little I know, seems to be autism central.
Also, the almost unknown PS1 game known as Moon RPG has an identical plot to UT decades before Undertale was a thing.
Zerth
Arbiter
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2016
- Messages
- 415
Ralsei despite of all his sissyness, is pretty tame compared to the biowarean thirst displayed by the rest of the teenager cast for Susie. An edgy barney with a wig turned out to be a staple oblivious harem protag lol.
My complaint is mainly that these routes are either all or nothing. Any variation doesn't effect drastically your playthrough as much as going full pacifist/genocide route AFAIK. For instance, there's either neutral or pacifist in chapter 1, the darkners wouldn't help you and have to run away instead at the end of the chapter if you don't spare them in every fight.
Regardless, the way chapter 2 emphazises Deltarune main theme "your choices don't matter" it's at the very least interesting.
It's quite evident that the game pretends to address the irony of jrpgs with bad writing where your mute character is presented as an influencial figure of the world that surrounds him, yet in practice is only following a railroaded storyline and is often sidelined by the supporting cast when it comes of interacting with others or want to express more than just input a 'yes' or 'no'. But at the end of the day, they fully give in to that bit of control the game provides to you.
In Deltarune, Susie only starts obeying your command after She weighs up the benefits, and still is prone to question it whether is played for fun or to make a point. And kris, well, He gets increasingly distressed by being puppeteered around and how mostly bland and ineffectual are the dialogue choices. You also as a player would find Kris lacking in ways to convey control quite obnoxious, until the discovery of a "workaround" through the evil route. Which provides a way to turn the narrative direction way similar to the Undertale genocide path.
LarryTyphoid
Scholar
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2021
- Messages
- 2,233
I always figured Undertale was some woke shit considering it was a "quirky" indie JRPG made by some scrawny looking retard who posts in all lowercase on Twitter constantly shilled by journos and YouTube video essay fags, and if that isn't just a collection of red flags then I don't know what is. I did like Five Nights at Freddy's, another guilty pleasure game from around the same time with similar fanbase defects, but Scott Cawthon doesn't look like someone I want to dunk into the toilet like Toby Fox does. I might play it years from now when my hatred of lowercase Twitter memespeech dies down (if that ever happens) but Deltarune is definitely looking like it straight up belongs in the fucking garbage. I'd rather play YIIK: A Postmodern RPG.
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
No new content if that's what you mean. The only new thing is that you can automatically skip all dialogue with the "C" key (or equivalent).
You don't need to replay Chapter 1 if you completed it and still have the save. As long as you defeated the secret boss, you're golden. Going pacifist on the 1st chapter is not necessary as well.
I'm not sure how to take the adoration several cast members have for fem-Barney, she's fucking ugly and with enough teeth to bite your face off. Perhaps there's not much to pick from in the town, considering everyone but Kris is a monster, and the latter comes from a very religious not-Christian family and a quite controlling mother. Speaking of: I like the fact his crush on Susie was implied way back from the start of Chapter 1, when you finally realize why supposedly his brother took a book from the library and never returned it. Because Kriss was using it for himself.
The cast ARE teenagers at the end of the day, so them being so thirsty is perhaps normal, although as for Ralsei's case, he's a bit of a mystery.
he ignores the rules he mentioned about Darkies going to other Dark worlds, for example. Either he's Asriel himself, or the horn headband that went missing mentioned in the first chapter. Or perhaps it's Kriss' idealized self if it was a monster. No matter the theory, most agree that he's an ideal come to life.
Yeah, that's what you have to do. Or you can beat them up until they're nearly dead, then Pacify them. You could do the same in UT. Shame the "Run away" action is no longer a thing.
Still, that's nothing compared to the "evil route" of chapter 2, which I finally did.
The requirements to enter it are VERY strict and almost impossible to figure out by yourself without fucking around. I know that this game is designed with multiple playthroughs in mind, but the evil route of chapter 2 is not something you will unlock by accident for sure. In any case, compared to the Genocide route of the first game, it's more fun, beating the enemy encounters takes no time, you can see in real time how your companion is forced to do things she's uncomfortable for in exchange of power, and even the MC dislikes your actions you're forcing on him. More interesting and impactful than simply killing everything.
After Noelle leaves though, the rest of the route seems short, as most sidepaths in the mansion are closed. It feels like the thing is incomplete, or you fucked up the plot somehow. Either way, it felt like an experiment of some sort to me. Hopefully future chapters also let you continue on this path to see where it goes.
The evil route's final boss though is absolutely unfair, you're forced to fight it alone to boot, even though your companions are not too far away from your position. I haven't been able to beat him yet.
After Noelle leaves though, the rest of the route seems short, as most sidepaths in the mansion are closed. It feels like the thing is incomplete, or you fucked up the plot somehow. Either way, it felt like an experiment of some sort to me. Hopefully future chapters also let you continue on this path to see where it goes.
The evil route's final boss though is absolutely unfair, you're forced to fight it alone to boot, even though your companions are not too far away from your position. I haven't been able to beat him yet.
At one point she actually asks why must you always give you the orders, moment in which your party members unlock their own "Act" equivalents, funnily enough. They are still controlled by the player, of course, but not much to do about it you can do if you want to play a game.
Yeah no. That one is absolute trash with no positive traits. If you thought Toby is a soyboy, the developer of that one is blatantly self-inserting himself as the main character: an ugly fatty red-head neckbeard that no-one likes and has an obnoxious voice, he monologues ALL THE FUCKING TIME (one of the latest patches allowed an option to shorten said monologues, kek), speaks like he was in Reddit 24/7, and doesn't seem to have any connection with the plot.
It doesn't help that the plot is incoherent and makes no sense, ripping off stuff from countless games without understanding what made them thick, especially Earthbound. Hell, the MC is so much of a beta, that in the very end he gives up and asks you, the player, to finish the game for him. Literally, by having your own avatar take over.
Gameplay, graphics, game-balance and soundtrack are also all trash.
Oh, and there was that special update of the game in which the dev made a list of the games and works he took "inspiration" from. Including an article from Wikipedia.
LarryTyphoid
Scholar
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2021
- Messages
- 2,233
Yeah, that's all true, but at least everybody else hates it so I can pretend like I'm very cool and contrarian while playing it
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
Yeah, that's all true, but at least everybody else hates it so I can pretend like I'm very cool and contrarian while playing it
Right, a newfag, should have thought. Even your avatar pic fits. You should go for actually good games if you wish to be contrarian. YIIK makes Cringefinder: Wrath of the Pozz look tame in comparison.
Anyway, I completed the evil route, and done the full pacifist one as well. Not many changes except a few additional cutscenes in the main town after the Dark World is dealt with, as well as an additional challenge in the Dojo, but not world-breaking changes. The episodic nature reminds me of Mother 3, but designed by western minds, for good and bad.
If multiple episodes are released next time, chances are there will be times where you must jump back-and-forth between episodes to do some stuff, considering the words of the shopkeeper once you defeat the secret boss.
In any case, that will take some months until more content is released. Or years. Hopefully the former.
Rafidur
Scholar
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2019
- Messages
- 411
Eh, far easier than the chapter 1 secret boss. The damage can obliterate you from full if you're careless, but the projectiles are a lot nicer. You also get a nice high damage tp dump. If you're stocked up on healing items it's not that bad.
For reference it took me
- 15ish tries for chapter 1 secret boss
- 1 try for chapter 2 secret boss
- 3 tries for chapter 2 evil boss
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 10,679
Agreed. That one has the combination of you not having powerful enough healing items and needing all team members alive if you want to defeat him non-lethally.
That can be argued. Maybe I'm getting old, but the attack where he corners you with phone-hands that shoot projectiles was quite difficult to dodge for me. If you're fighting him solo, it's even worse as then you don't have anyone else to soak damage.
If you mean the two-slice attack, that's a must-have to do every turn, as I believe you must attack the boss until he gets low enough in HP to defeat him. The battle doesn't end otherwise.
I tried that and I found the CDs didn't heal enough IMO. Either way, future episodes should have it easier, as it seems your characters level up after every chapter and get more HP. You get that if you beat enemies, losing the chance to recruit them but getting more HP.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 100,441
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...a-game-about-playing-and-its-bloody-brilliant
Deltarune is a game about playing, and it's bloody brilliant
Heart of glass.
BASICALLY, Deltarune goes like this. You are a lonely kid in a small town. Your name is Kris. You have a sweet but slightly overbearing mother, a high-achieving older brother away at college, and a dad who no longer sleeps in your house. You turn up late to school one morning and find that everybody else is already partnered up for the big project. One by one you go around the room trying to persuade your fellow students to take you on. Then... Suzie kicks down the door.
Everybody is scared of Suzie, including your hapless teacher, who pairs you up as a way to mollify this hulking, mean-spirited lizard girl (everyone is a monster in this story, except for you). The teacher sends you and Suzie out on some half-assed errand to get the troublemaker out of the classroom. Out in the corridor Suzie briefly considers eating your face, but decides against it. Then two of you head on into the store room and through a wormhole into another reality.
There's a kingdom in mortal danger down here. A kingdom awaiting destined heroes who, wouldn't you know it, look just like you and Susie. Capes and weapons appear in a burst of light. A slamming overworld theme kicks in. The adventure is on!
Look, it's not hard to figure out what's going on here. There may be layers yet uncovered - in fact, I hope there are - but when your teenage characters emerge from a chess-themed fantasy kingdom amid the scattered parts of an old chess board, or plunge into a frenetic cyberspace city while visiting the IT lab, obvious conclusions must be drawn. Someone is making this up. The only question is who.
Deltarune has a wonderfully vivid colour scheme.
Deltarune is the brainchild of Toby Fox, composer, writer, animator, programmer, and all-round indie wizard. Toby Fox is in a weird position. On one level, he has every artist's dream: near unlimited resources, plenty of time, and an eager fanbase willing to lick the dregs of an idea from his outstretched fingertip. He can make whatever he likes. But whatever he makes, be it a cupcake or a clothing brand or a package holiday business, will be compared, inevitably, to Undertale.
It's an especially thorny conundrum because Undertale was so narratively groundbreaking. It starts with crap puzzles and funny skeletons and evolves, perfectly, into the story of a human being sitting down to play a video game. And now we have this new remix/sequel/alternate universe-thing in the form of Deltarune. Does Deltarune go further, try and be cleverer, craftier, even more subversive? Absolutely not. It's much more interesting than that.
The simple summary is that if Undertale is a game about games, Deltarune is a game about playing. Specifically, it's about how we can become better people just by playing around.
'Welcome, travellers...'
The "Dark World" is where adventures take place in Deltarune, a bombastic counterpoint to the quaint small town overworld. Anything can happen in the Dark World: unlikely friendships, budding romances, unspoken feelings finally coming to light, action, adventure, standing up to a villain who bears an uncanny resemblance to an overbearing parent, the lot. When they fall into the Dark World, the school-kid protagonists get colorful costumes that seem to project who they want to be in the world above. Susie has studded armbands and a giant axe, while dweeb Berdly gets a cyber-suit and a Dragon Ball Z style orange eye visor. Player character Kris might be enigmatic, but we can tell a lot about them just by the billowing neon pink cape and sword they adopt in the Dark World.
And another thing. When characters leave the Dark World, they leave it better. A genuine bond forms between Kris and Susie after their adventure in the chess kingdom, and by the next morning she can't wait to get back in the action, her face-eating days a thing of the past. At the end of chapter two, shy reindeer Noelle comes out of her 'dream' feeling a little braver, a little more ready to face reality. Even Beardly grows up a bit (mostly by getting his ass kicked).
It's a self fulfilling prophecy, right? If you play football wearing your favorite team's shirt, maybe you'll play a little better. If you go to a convention dressed up as a superhero, maybe you'll act heroic, too. Growing up is a lot of the time just putting on a costume and then trying to become that person. That's what Deltarune is all about.
When Deltarune was first announced, Toby Fox claimed that there would be only one ending - a far cry from Undertale, where the conclusion changes dramatically depending on how you approach the game's battles. It felt like a fitting change. Deltarune is about Kris and their friends, and that's what players should focus on, rather than trying to pull apart every strand of some intricately coded narrative web. We don't need another mystery box. Just tell the damn story.
Well... I don't know if it was misdirection, or if Toby Fox just changed his mind, but Chapter 2 has a secret ending. Following a series of steps so complex that it's almost impossible to do without a guide, you can change Deltarune from a sweet coming of age flick into a harrowing, wretched nightmare. Head over to Youtube now and you'll find countless videos picking over every last detail of this damned alternate route, theorising about the implications, the lore, trying to stitch the "real" story together, trying to solve it. This drives me crazy. Even if I ignore the other ending, it'll always be there, looming over Deltarune like an intrusive thought I can't shake loose.
I guess it's all part of the power of games, the power of playing pretend. The choices you make in a game matter, not because fake violence leads to real violence (sorry Republicans), but because the moment you decide to do some deeply messed up thing just because there won't be any "real" consequences, is the moment you stop really believing in the story. That's another, sadder way to come of age.
When Chapter 2 was announced at the Indie expo, Fox said, 'When you make games, you can give people hope, or make them into terrible monsters.' Deltarune gives me hope.
Gay.
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.