Preview Deus Ex 3 Lead Designer Speaks

[ghostdog]

Complaining that an excellent game like Deus Ex is too long, is retarded. One of the main problems of today's games is the fact that they are pathetically short. The thing with DX is that play time also depends on the way you play it, you can finish it in over 30 hours if you try to clean out all enemies from levels and find every secret and you could finish it in about 10 hours if you sneak past the enemies and try to reach the objective as fast as you can.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Explored every corner, killed everyone. People who say that DX is super-long and IW is super-short have their internal clocks fucked up.

 

[MetalCraze]

I've actually spent somewhere near 20 hrs playing DX the first time (and was exploring everything too).
And then I was reloading the final level 2 times to see all 3 endings.
DX is a cool game will play again.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Explored every corner, killed everyone. People who say that DX is super-long and IW is super-short have their internal clocks fucked up.

Odds are, Invisble War is LONGER than Deus Ex in time-length despite being obviously shorter in content.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Only finished another playthrough a couple of months ago. As strange as it may seem, Deus Ex 1 is one of my most repeated playthrough games. Quite odd.

It saddens me that excellent games seem to be made, and then, to this day, cannot be surpassed. Why is it so difficult to surpass Deus Ex? So many improvements could be made to the game, yet developers just cannot do it, despite many, many people loving the game. If the original had tanked with the masses, I could perhaps understand why the large publishers did not want to repeat the experiment. Yet we are talking about a major hit, and still the dumb down mode must be applied.

As for IW being longer than Deus Ex, not when it comes to actual gaming. People are probably thinking that due to the incredible amount of level loading in the game. Atrocious.

 

[doctor_kaz]

You have to speed run through Deus Ex to complete that game in less than 20 hours on your first time through. Invisible War is no more than 2/3 the length of the original. It has fewer maps, and the maps are smaller. Deus Ex could actually stand to have one or two levels shaved off. (No one saying that it's a perfect game)

It saddens me that excellent games seem to be made, and then, to this day, cannot be surpassed. Why is it so difficult to surpass Deus Ex? So many improvements could be made to the game, yet developers just cannot do it, despite many, many people loving the game. If the original had tanked with the masses, I could perhaps understand why the large publishers did not want to repeat the experiment. Yet we are talking about a major hit, and still the dumb down mode must be applied.

I don't understand this either. It's baffling and it is, indeed depressing. The original Deus Ex in an updated engine with some of the quirks smoothed out and the skill system balanced would be better than just about any other game in years. With every genre besides RPGs, I have played at least one game in the past few years that is distinctly better than something that I played 8 years ago. With RPGs, that's not true. What's funny is that Mass Effect and Fallout 3 are shooting RPGs where the stats heavily influence what happens in combat, and those games have been huge sellers. The notion that the masses will not buy a shooter with stats is 100% false, yet game developers and marketers keep falling for it.

The way to approach Deus Ex 3 is to just cross off the name Deus Ex and just assume that this developer is making a futuristic 1st person shooter/RPG that is a new IP. You'll be happier that way.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Only finished another playthrough a couple of months ago. As strange as it may seem, Deus Ex 1 is one of my most repeated playthrough games. Quite odd.

Yeah, at one point, I noticed how I have now virtually made a tradition to play the game again every few months.

It's like an unwritten law - play Deus Ex at least two times a year.

Deus Ex is a deep game, but - tell me guys, did it EVER feel like you were playing a Smart Man's Elitist game? The game was most receptive to new players, and very easy to understand. It feels easygoing, while at the same time, possessing so much depth that you can continually master this game, and find more new things.

 

[VonVentrue]

Besides check the achievements list of DX3's lead designer:

Far Cry: Instincts - Evolution (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Far Cry: Instincts - Predator (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (2006), Ubisoft, Inc.
Far Cry: Instincts (2005), Ubisoft, Inc.
Speed Challenge: Jacques Villeneuve's Racing Vision (2002), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software
F1 Racing Championship (2000), Video System Co., Ltd.
F1 Racing Simulation (1997), Ubi Soft Entertainment Software

All of a sudden, the remark of his regarding reluctance to "follow the fans' advice and redo the first DX with better textures" gets a whole new meaning.

 

[Fat Dragon]

Seriously though, Deus Ex slow?

It's a 16 hour game on a first time playthrough.

I'm pretty sure the dev was referring to what he felt about the gameplay itself, not the game's length. I don't think anybody would complain about DX being too short, 15+ hours is pretty damn long for a FPS yet isn't long enough to where you begin wishing it would just end already.

 

[doctor_kaz]

Deus Ex is a deep game, but - tell me guys, did it EVER feel like you were playing a Smart Man's Elitist game?

Not for me, it didn't. I played almost nothing but RPGs, TBS, and adventure games up until then. It was probably more challenging for me to pick up the FPS controls for the first time than it was for an experienced FPS player to deal with the skills system. The game has a complete tutorial for fuck's sake. It's not a very hard game to pick up and play at all.

 

[denizsi]

I'm just glad that Deus Ex was a first person game. You can't fuck that up any further under any false pretenses like "tech. limitations" or next-gen-ness (ie. going from ISO to FP). Yet.

Deus Ex is a deep game, but - tell me guys, did it EVER feel like you were playing a Smart Man's Elitist game?

No. This is how much dumbed down you are yourself.

 

[Longshanks]

I'm pretty sure the dev was referring to what he felt about the gameplay itself, not the game's length. I don't think anybody would complain about DX being too short, 15+ hours is pretty damn long for a FPS yet isn't long enough to where you begin wishing it would just end already.

I was thinking just that by the end. Had probably just had enough of some of the nondescript levels, faction foolery and over the top plot.

As an FPS, there's no doubt it's a slow game. You can't rush forward in quite the same way you can in other FPSs. In this, it's something like Thief, though not as slow. I'm sure they'll "fix" this in Deus Ex 3. Making the guns blazing path much more satisfying.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

OTOH, social augs have been mentioned. Perhaps there is still hope?

 

[Sir_Brennus]

There has been some much bullshiting in this thread that it nearly seems impossible to get the record straight, but I'll try nonetheless.

- About games problem being too short nowadays: Do you honestly think 1997 Fallout 1 was a long game? Did its short length hurt the content?

- About 16h being a speedrun in DX1
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v627008775PPk66e

- Anyone who thinks that the middle part of DX1 is without slowdowns stfu. Paris and Chateu du Clare were a drag and even the otherwise fine Hong Kong needed an awful lot of backtracking.

- R6-Vegas was a nice enough game.

- The main dev does like the game. I read an article in a mag where the author stated that noone ever mentions IW as an inspiration or something were elements are taken from. Everybody (even the main dev) praised the original game. And while I think that DX is one of the best games ever it is not without problems. IF sth has problems - why not criticise it?

- Epic moments. Well, most people on the codex don't like cutscenes, but my first dialogue with Paul Denton qualifies as such a moment - on a quite note. I would've wished more of that, especially scenes like Anna's death just went down without any emotional impact.

- All I hear make the game look better than both IW and BioShock - and that is good enough for me AT THIS POINT to be cautiously optimistic.

 

[MetalCraze]

The main dev does like the game

"Deus Ex was slow and boring"
Pure love

 

[Fat Dragon]

Making the guns blazing path much more satisfying.

I agree, gunplay in DX wasn't very satisfying though I think that may be more due to the fact that the game just never intended to bring you intense firefights. That wasn't what it was about imo. It wasn't ever meant to play like a fast shooter.

@skyway
Why not use the dev's actual quote instead of quoting out of context?

 

[buccaroobonzai]

If you're talking about Deus Ex, why do you even care about the gunplay?
Didn't you all play the game with the crowbar, nano-sword, stun baton, dart-bow, or even the sniper rifle?

Who really played this game using machine guns, or even heavy weapons or pistol alone? What a waste that would be. The combat fun in this game is the gameplay of Thief/System Shock and Splinter Cell to a lesser degree, not Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six

 

[buccaroobonzai]

Making the guns blazing path much more satisfying.

I agree, gunplay in DX wasn't very satisfying though I think that may be more due to the fact that the game just never intended to bring you intense firefights. That wasn't what it was about imo. It wasn't ever meant to play like a fast shooter.

@skyway
Why not use the dev's actual quote instead of quoting out of context?

Because out of context quotes are good drama, and the Codex is all about drama queens who love thier Jerry Springer (CRPG) game discussions. Witout this drama about games that aren't released yet we would have so little crap to chat about.

Having said that, the preview base drama is right much of the time=Oblivion.

Wouldn't it be fun and cool if we could actually transmute all this bashing into constructive energy on the Deus Ex 3 forums that the developers would actually thoughtfully analyze and implement the most solid features based on intelligent consensus as Iron Tower studios does.

 

[Wyrmlord]

The main dev does like the game

"Deus Ex was slow and boring"
Pure love

"The original Deus Ex was geared towards simulation than gaming. There weren't enough exciting moments. It was kind of slow and a little boring."

 

[Fat Dragon]

The main dev does like the game

"Deus Ex was slow and boring"
Pure love

"The original Deus Ex was geared towards simulation than gaming. There weren't enough exciting moments. It was kind of slow and a little boring."

Here's the quote I found at:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/ar ... ?id=200006

Deus Ex 3 lead game designer Jean-Francois Dugas has been telling Edge about how the game will differentiate from its predecessors.

In an interview with Edge magazine, on sale today, Dugas says the original Deus Ex was "kind of slow". He added, "There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience."

But he said developer Eidos Montreal would not attempt to dumb down the much-loved RPG-shooter franchise. "At this point we don't know exactly which platforms we're going to be out on. The PC, we'll be there for sure. But for us, console-isation isn't about dumbing down features. If we're to go console we will want to keep the complexity alive. We want the menu interface and controller to feel simple without risking any of their potential"

No "boring" in there, though I haven't read the magazine interview the article refers to. Where's your source to where he specifically says "boring"?

 

[The Feral Kid]

The main dev does like the game

"Deus Ex was slow and boring"
Pure love

"The original Deus Ex was geared towards simulation than gaming. There weren't enough exciting moments. It was kind of slow and a little boring."

Also:

The PC, we'll be there for sure. But for us, console-isation isn't about dumbing down features. If we're to go to console we will want to keep the complexity alive."

I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. He never worked on a PC game in his life.

 

[Fat Dragon]

But for us, console-isation isn't about dumbing down features.

It's funny hearing this come from a guy who worked on Far Cry Instincts, an immensely dumbed down console port.

 

[Forest Dweller]

Deus Ex is a deep game, but - tell me guys, did it EVER feel like you were playing a Smart Man's Elitist game?

In terms of philosophical issues and thematic material, yes.

Wouldn't it be fun and cool if we could actually transmute all this bashing into constructive energy on the Deus Ex 3 forums that the developers would actually thoughtfully analyze and implement the most solid features based on intelligent consensus as Iron Tower studios does.

It's not like they don't know what we want.

 

[Xerxos]

Wouldn't it be fun and cool if we could actually transmute all this bashing into constructive energy on the Deus Ex 3 forums that the developers would actually thoughtfully analyze and implement the most solid features based on intelligent consensus as Iron Tower studios does.

It's not like they don't know what we want.

Yeah, there are angry posts about auto health on their forum, too. Their answer? It's not going to change. *sigh*

 

[buccaroobonzai]

Wouldn't it be fun and cool if we could actually transmute all this bashing into constructive energy on the Deus Ex 3 forums that the developers would actually thoughtfully analyze and implement the most solid features based on intelligent consensus as Iron Tower studios does.

It's not like they don't know what we want.

Yeah, there are angry posts about auto health on their forum, too. Their answer? It's not going to change. *sigh*

That is the problem, that there are only some angry posts. If there was a way to petition the features that we want and send them the number of people on it where it would show something at least in the 100,000s which translates to $10,000,000s which is what many developers understand first and foremost as it is what pays there rent so they can work on games.