Difference between turn-based and phase-based combat?

[Monkeyfinger]

I made a post saying that the old Might and Magics were proof that first-person turn based could work. Naturally, it didn't take long for people to rip me a new asshole, saying that those games, and games similar to them, were phase-based, not turn-based.

So what's the difference between the 2? I've never heard the term "phase-based" prior to that, and the old M&Ms don't seem so much different from other turn-based games I've played.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

In phase based, all actions are determined at the beginning of the round. Phase based can also be called "round based". Same thing.

In turn based, all actions are determined within the turn of the character.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

At the beginning of a combat round, everyone rolls for Initiative. Initiative serves to determine who gets to act when in the Sequence of events that will follow. The one that rolled the highest initiative goes first in combat, followed by the second, then third, and so on, thus ending the sequence of events that make up the round.

*In turnbased, every character rolls for their initiative, and when the sequence is determined, character actions are decided and played one by one on their respective character turns. Example: Fallout.

Basically:

1) Everyone rolls to see who goes in what order
2) Sequence is determined
3) Combat begins
4) Each character has their own turn
5) Actions are decided and exectuded in those turns

*In phasebased, every character rolls for their initiative, and all characters decide their actions. After the sequence is determined, combat begins, and the character actions in respective character turns are all played automatically. Example: Wizardry 8.

Basically:

1) Everyone rolls to see who goes in what order
2) Actions are decided
3) Sequence is determined
4) Combat begins
5) All actions are executed automatically based on the decisions made before the round


I think this covers it.

 

[Human Shield]

In phase based if you aim a fireball directly on someone, if they roll higher then they can move first and avoid your shot. So you can aim ahead if you think they will move first... It is kinda annoying, in Wiz 8 you could target infront of a group then enter a walk command and wait for the whole group to move first.

 

[Snuffles]

Chess is turn based. Phase based chess would be where both players write down their move, then move both pieces, then write down another move, then move again. The complexity of a phase-based system is what you do when two opposing actions clash, e.g. In a phase-based chess game if you move a piece that the other side's move was going to take.

 

[Whipporowill]

Diplomacy is phase-based, if anyone's played that.

 

[RGE]

I believe Wasteland was phasebased too. Which ended up being mildly annoying in combat with several different groups, since killing one group meant that all following attacks made on that group were scrapped. This encouraged me to spread out the attacks on different groups in doses of "I think this will kill them", rather than doing the usual "shoot this one guy until he drops and then shoot the next guy". Which was probably a good thing in the end.

 

[suibhne]

I made a post saying that the old Might and Magics were proof that first-person turn based could work. Naturally, it didn't take long for people to rip me a new asshole, saying that those games, and games similar to them, were phase-based, not turn-based.

I was the person who pointed out that M&M was phase-based, not turn-based, but my post was damn cordial. If you think that was me ripping you a new asshole, then you'd better run - don't walk, run - far away from the Codex.

 

[triCritical]

I made a post saying that the old Might and Magics were proof that first-person turn based could work. Naturally, it didn't take long for people to rip me a new asshole, saying that those games, and games similar to them, were phase-based, not turn-based.

I was the person who pointed out that M&M was phase-based, not turn-based, but my post was damn cordial. If you think that was me ripping you a new asshole, then you'd better run - don't walk, run - far away from the Codex.

I thought MM6-9 were TB. In other words, the event which triggered my action was instantaneous with the in game result. I think every round you would be given the option to walk, but for the most part everyone seemed to move during their appropriate turn.

 

[Elwro]

You could certainly fight in turn-based mode in MM6+. I'm sure because I've finished MMVII and I remember the only way in which I could survive the fights was by turning on tb mode.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I was the person who pointed out that M&M was phase-based, not turn-based, but my post was damn cordial. If you think that was me ripping you a new asshole, then you'd better run - don't walk, run - far away from the Codex.

*Rereads your post*

Er, fuck. I got your reply confused with someone else's reply to me about a different subject. Late at night and all that.

But yeah, I sorta had a feeling that that was what the difference was... except that I don't remember the old Might & Magics being like that. IIRC, your characters performed their actions right when you clicked the appropriate button. Sounds like turn-based to me.

 

[taks]

In phase based if you aim a fireball directly on someone, if they roll higher then they can move first and avoid your shot. So you can aim ahead if you think they will move first... It is kinda annoying, in Wiz 8 you could target infront of a group then enter a walk command and wait for the whole group to move first.

this is an implementation failure... the ability to "lead" with your ranged attacks should be coded into the engine. a ranged weapon or spell should (within some range of certainty) at least be connected towards any path the the target takes. they should only be able to get out of the range if they have some sort of dodge modification ala D&D.
taks

 

[taks]

I thought MM6-9 were TB. In other words, the event which triggered my action was instantaneous with the in game result. I think every round you would be given the option to walk, but for the most part everyone seemed to move during their appropriate turn.

i think that's right, actually. it was weird, however, the way they implemented things, so don't be quoting me... i tried to reload MM7 recently to verify but XP and MM7 don't agree with each other.

taks

 

[theverybigslayer]

All M&M games (I-IX) are turn-based. From M&M VI you can fight real-time.

 

[suibhne]

Er, fuck. I got your reply confused with someone else's reply to me about a different subject. Late at night and all that.

No worries.

But yeah, I sorta had a feeling that that was what the difference was... except that I don't remember the old Might & Magics being like that. IIRC, your characters performed their actions right when you clicked the appropriate button. Sounds like turn-based to me.

I honestly can't remember - I only played one M&M (maybe IV?) and it was forever ago. I just recalled other forumgoers pointing out, in one of our Fallout discussions, that all of the older M&M/Wiz/etc. games used phase-based rather than turn-based combat. I'm happy to stand corrected.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Wiz is most certainly phase-based. I could see where a person could get mixed up.