Arkane Dishonored 2 - Emily and Corvo's Serkonan Vacation

[Parabalus]

Stealth is not the strongpoint of the series. Do not expect Thief calibre stealth.

But what is their strength?

Combat, level design, movement and aesthetics. They are some of the few games with satisfying first-person melee combat. For an illustration of what I mean, compare how melee combat feels in Skyrim to how it feels in Dishonored.

Dark Messiah still has the best melee combat feel for me. Arkane have basically been making the same game for 16 years and they certainly got that part right.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's such a good sneaking game that the melee combat is the best side.

compare how melee combat feels in Skyrim to how it feels in Dishonored.

uh, no, thanks

 

[fantadomat]

Stealth is not the strongpoint of the series. Do not expect Thief calibre stealth.

But what is their strength?

Combat, level design, movement and aesthetics. They are some of the few games with satisfying first-person melee combat. For an illustration of what I mean, compare how melee combat feels in Skyrim to how it feels in Dishonored.

Dark Messiah still has the best melee combat feel for me. Arkane have basically been making the same game for 16 years and they certainly got that part right.

You mean kicking mechanic,right?

 

[Morgoth]

Dark Messiah's combat was kinda clunky and goofy, but fun enough for its time. Dishonored's combat however is vastly more polished and versatile.

 

[Parabalus]

Dark Messiah's combat was kinda clunky and goofy, but fun enough for its time. Dishonored's combat however is vastly more polished and versatile.

It's much more lethal though, in DM you could spar in melee with some enemies for a while (provided you didn't kick them in sth), while in Dishonored someone is dropping dead in seconds. Different genres basically.

 

[unfairlight]

Are they any good from the stealth point of view?

For stealth it's pretty piss poor. Treat it as an action game first and foremost.

 

[Paul_cz]

Best thing about Dishonored is their atmosphere. I like the gameplay and all that but I just love being in their worlds. And I love how different Dunwall is from Karnaca. Plus both games received high quality expansions and feature none of the modern microtransaction cancers.

 

[Latelistener]

I think Thief is the wrong game you're comparing it to.

 

[Nano]

Nah, it's still too different. Dishonored is a thing of its own that can't really be directly compared with any of the Looking Glass/Ion Storm games.

 

[Zombra]

Nice, they responded within a couple weeks to console control issues annoying PC players, something Arkane hasn't figured out for years.

Haven't played Prey yet but Dishonored 1 and 2 are some of the better PC ports I've played. What exactly bugs you about them?

Stealth button is toggle only. Can't hold to sneak, release to stop sneaking like all old first person PC games. The controls are "press C to crouch" and "press C to stand up". So dumb.

 

[DalekFlay]

Stealth button is toggle only. Can't hold to sneak, release to stop sneaking like all old first person PC games. The controls are "press C to crouch" and "press C to stand up". So dumb.

Oh, I'd put it on toggle if the option was there. I hate having to hold a key for anything really, except right mouse for aiming down sights. 99.9% sure I toggled it in Deus Ex and Thief way back, don't see how it's a PC vs. console thing.

 

[Zombra]

Stealth button is toggle only. Can't hold to sneak.

Oh, I'd put it on toggle if the option was there. I hate having to hold a key for anything really, except right mouse for aiming down sights. 99.9% sure I toggled it in Deus Ex and Thief way back, don't see how it's a PC vs. console thing.

It's a console thing because holding the button has been at least an option for every first-person game I ever played, until more recently when they expanded to consoles, and when you only have four fingers it makes more sense for toggle to be the only option. Maybe I'm wrong, it's a coincidence, and they simply like removing options for no reason. My theory seems more plausible.

Thief and Deus Ex had both options (default was toggle for Thief and hold for Deus Ex) and most titles I'm aware of continue to provide a choice. I'm happy for you that you get the controls your way in every game, but it bothers me that I'm sometimes expected to retrain my brain to what is frankly an inferior system. Whether the limitation came about because of consoles or "we just like removing options" doesn't matter. Fuck it, I have other games to play.

 

[DalekFlay]

Holding Ctrl makes it hard to properly press the "A" key as it takes my hand off WASD a bit, which is a big reason I think toggle works better, even with KBM. Agree to disagree though. Either way seems like a small thing to rage over, but hey it's the Codex... wouldn't have it any other way!

 

[Zombra]

I use Shift for stealth, as it was back in my earliest days of Team Fortress. It's, like, right there. And I hate the feeling of not knowing whether I'm crouched. I come around a corner, I see a guy, I better crouch! But wait, was I crouched already? I'll press crouch to make sure. Oh, I just stood up. Better press crouch again. I'm not crouched yet, I'm starting to panic, did it register? Maybe I better press it again. No, I was going to crouch but now I'm standing up again. When you have hold to crouch there's zero chance of this kind of stupidity.

Like, imagine if suddenly they took the brake and gas pedals out of your car and just put in one pedal. Stomp it to go, stomp it again to stop. After you've been driving for 20 years. Would you feel safe?

 

[DalekFlay]

I use Shift for stealth, as it was back in my earliest days of Team Fortress. It's, like, right there. And I hate the feeling of not knowing whether I'm crouched. I come around a corner, I see a guy, I better crouch! But wait, was I crouched already? I'll press crouch to make sure. Oh, I just stood up. Better press crouch again. I'm not crouched yet, I'm starting to panic, did it register? Maybe I better press it again. No, I was going to crouch but now I'm standing up again. When you have hold to crouch there's zero chance of this kind of stupidity.

Shift is for sprint, dammit! Who raised you???

Seriously though I have had that issue here and there, with not knowing if I'm crouched or not. Mostly in other games though, because in Dishonored your sword position dramatically changes when crouched. Still, I get what you're saying... interesting stance (HA HA HA). I'll put shift-as-crouch on my "maybe try someday" control list along with using ESDF as my home keys.

 

[Zombra]

Shift is for sprint, dammit! Who raised you???

I bump sprint down to Ctrl. It's OK if my hand gets a little out of position, because I'm not going to be sprinting and doing delicate strafing (or really anything else) at the same time. But there is plenty of fine work to be done while sneaking.

Seriously though I have had that issue here and there, with not knowing if I'm crouched or not. Mostly in other games though, because in Dishonored your sword position dramatically changes when crouched.

Yeah. Some games even put in a special HUD element to remind you whether you are crouched or not!

(Didn't Dishonored do this? New Deus Ex maybe?) It's like jesus christ, you don't need to send me a telegram to tell me if I'm crouched if you just give me a decent fucking control scheme so I can, you know, control it. If people forgetting what the hell they're doing is such a problem you have to invent a new HUD element for it, maybe make it so that problem doesn't have to exist in the first place. Like in every game I ever played up to now.

The sword helped some when I played Dishonored ... on the other hand I prefer putting it away when I'm not using it. (Putting away weapons was a new* feature I did enjoy.)
*Well. Daggerfall.

Still, I get what you're saying... interesting stance (HA HA HA). I'll put shift-as-crouch on my "maybe try someday" control list along with using ESDF as my home keys.

Yeah, not my intent to brainwash anybody into doing things my way (regardless of how superior my way is). If you're toggling instead of pressing it kinda doesn't matter what the key is, which is an advantage I guess if you already have dumb controls hardwired.

 

[funkadelik]

Holding Ctrl makes it hard to properly press the "A" key as it takes my hand off WASD a bit, which is a big reason I think toggle works better, even with KBM. Agree to disagree though. Either way seems like a small thing to rage over, but hey it's the Codex... wouldn't have it any other way!

Too hard to press A and hold Control simultaneously? What...

Here are some FPS tips:
Pinky finger should always be hovering around Shift or Control (for sprinting and crouching)
Thumb should be over the Space Bar for jumping.
Pointer finger should be over D, but readily available for E, F, R, in case you need to reload, interact, etc.
Ring finger should over A and should be available to move to Q or Z.
Middle finger almost completely stays over W and S, unless of course you're playing a multiplayer game and you need to shit talk the other players.

 

[Zep Zepo]

We're not using potato keyboards, genius.

Zep--

 

[funkadelik]

We're not using potato keyboards, genius.

Zep--

 

[Modron]

We're not using potato keyboards, genius.

Zep--

Then rebind the keys or something, what are you using wasd on a dvorak keyboard for movement or something?

 

[Latelistener]

 

[DalekFlay]

Too hard to press A and hold Control simultaneously? What...

Here are some FPS tips:
Pinky finger should always be hovering around Shift or Control (for sprinting and crouching)
Thumb should be over the Space Bar for jumping.
Pointer finger should be over D, but readily available for E, F, R, in case you need to reload, interact, etc.
Ring finger should over A and should be available to move to Q or Z.
Middle finger almost completely stays over W and S, unless of course you're playing a multiplayer game and you need to shit talk the other players.

Everything you just wrote is super obvious but doesn't change the fact that when moving your pinky down to CTRL it moves your normal fingers off WASD to some degree.

 

[funkadelik]

Too hard to press A and hold Control simultaneously? What...

Here are some FPS tips:
Pinky finger should always be hovering around Shift or Control (for sprinting and crouching)
Thumb should be over the Space Bar for jumping.
Pointer finger should be over D, but readily available for E, F, R, in case you need to reload, interact, etc.
Ring finger should over A and should be available to move to Q or Z.
Middle finger almost completely stays over W and S, unless of course you're playing a multiplayer game and you need to shit talk the other players.

Everything you just wrote is super obvious but doesn't change the fact that when moving your pinky down to CTRL it moves your normal fingers off WASD to some degree.

It doesn't do that for me, although I play guitar and have worked extensively on finger isolation so maybe that's why.

 

[DalekFlay]

So this thread being bumped has me finally devoting time to the second game and I have to comment on the clockwork soldiers. They're so touted in the game as a big deal, and featured heavily in the marketing I believe, but they're soooooo easy to deal with. One crossbow bolt to the head, boom and done. Now, maybe on a ghost run this counts as a kill or being noticed, I dunno, but on a normal first run it's just super simple with no repercussions. The dudes just stand there after you shoot their head off, doing nothing. If they're next to a guard or other robot they kill them, which is highly effective. I was pretty much happy when I saw one.

Mouse aim might be part of this, I assume shooting one in the head is harder with 'dem analog sticks. Seriously though, last room of the clockwork mansion: I walk in, inventor dude starts mocking me, I headshot the robot next to him and it's all over. This is all on hard mode as well. Amusing.

 

[DalekFlay]

No one gives a damn but after 41 hours I beat this fucker on hard. Thoroughly enjoyed myself, though I ended up playing it waaaaay more action-stealth than I expected to or usually would this kind of game. They made the enemies notice you a lot more easily in this one compared to the original, and I dislike save-scumming, so halfway through the game I just went with it and started taking upgrades and powers that revolved around killing in open combat. I still stealth'd it up, but when I was caught I jumped in and got shit done. My favorite was sticky grenades and shooting off the robot heads so they chopped up all the guards/witches.

I didn't really have the performance issues most complained about, I guess because of patches. I only have a lowly 1060 and Ryzen 1600 so no god-tier rig here.