Eternity Does Pillars of Eternity have feature parity with Baldur's Gate?

[0sacred]

I played PoE

No, you didn't. It was immediately obvious the moment you started talking about PoE melee wizards playing like PoE fighters, your inability to provide proof was needed only for confirmation. In essence, I am dealing with an anally devastated retard who is spewing ignorant drivel about games he has never even played.

whatever you need to believe to be in your happy place, my retarded friend. Bless your heart

I don't care if you cast spells or use weapons to attack

So you don't care about class identity? OK, retard.

What? You can do both. So are you making my point for me here about class identity in PoE or just being retarded, I can't even tell.

This isn't possible with an AD&D Mage.

It is. You can prebuff with Protection from Normal/Magic Weapons or Mantle in BG2, cast Tenser's Transformation and then proceed to auto-attack

You can do that as a high level Mage, yes. In PoE you can do it from level 1.

Oh, wait, there's stunning blow which definitely changes everything

Paladins, Rangers and Barbs have abilities and spells too. Since you seem so defensive about having played PoE, maybe you haven't played IE games? Or you really only auto-attacked everything to death. This is your limitation though, not the game's.

Yes, clerics can tank, though in IE games you would almost always use Fighter as a multiclass.

You can use whatever you want, these are all viable choices. The problem here is that the fighter ends up auto-attacking just like cleric and thus the fighter's class identity is destroyed. Not so in PoE, where fighters get their own pool of combat maneuvers.

A pure class cleric won't have the attacks per round and not even close to the same ThAC0 (until very high level spells bridge that gap a bit). So no, a cleric can't replace a fighter apart from tanking.

We aren't talking about P&P and Codzilla

You can easily do a Codzilla in both BG2 and IWD2. You have absolutely no clue how these games works.

IWD2 is 3rd Ed. and therefore not relevant to discussion, strawmanning retard. "But but but at very high levels which are attainable in BG2 classes get somewhat similar" yes, and in PoE they can be similar from level 1.

Enemies in PoE pull stupid status effects out of their ass virtually every fight

This is not an argument. Provide examples of abilities and perform a comparison of ability pools, if you want to argue the absence of class identity in PoE. Oh, wait, you can't, because you never played it.

It is an argument, you just lack the intellectual capacity to follow. Don't worry, RPGWatch is where you want to go.

 

[RunningWolf]

Deadfire sidekicks mog some BG "companions" in terms of characterization. Let that sink in.

Then they must be better than everything Shitfire writers like Carrie Patel have produced in their lives. Just goes to show how the best thing Obsidian writing can produce is something barely written. As i said - non-existance is an upgrade for those literary giants.

 

[MjKorz]

What? You can do both.

The cleric/wizard can do both in AD&D, the martial can do only one thing - auto-attack. Thus, the martial's class identity is usurped by the cleric/wizard, because the martial cannot do anything else. Not so in PoE where martials get a unique pool of abilities that ensure the character does not end up simply auto-attacking, creating distinct class identity for the martial. You are obviously not able to keep up with the discussion. Brain damage, perchance?

You can do that as a high level Mage, yes. In PoE you can do it from level 1.

While usurping the martial's identity in AD&D since the martial can't do anything else other than auto-attack, same thing a buffed AD&D wizard does in melee. Not so in PoE, where wizards and martials have different ability/spell pools AND wizards also retain spellcasting capability while attacking with the Citzal's Spirit Lance or Caedebald's Black Bow.

Paladins, Rangers and Barbs have abilities and spells too.

Barbarians are just auto-attackers with a rage button. Paladins and Rangers are not pure martials by definition since they have spellcasting. Paladins and Rangers are another example of class identity destruction in AD&D since they usurp the roles of pure martials by being able to auto-attack just as effectively (if not better due to self-buffs and itemization such as the holy avenger) while also having aditional spells and abilities. Another retarded strawman.

A pure class cleric won't have the attacks per round

Seeking Sword sets your APR to 3, retard, and works normally with Improved Haste, that's almost the same. Considering that Cleric can cast powerful self-buffs such as Righteous Might that maximizes damage rolls, that's more than competitive. Again, you show that you know absolutely nothing of the games you attempt to discuss.

IWD2 is 3rd Ed.

Never claimed otherwise, strawmanning retard. It is an example of a DnD game where a Codzilla can be successfully made.

It is an argument

No, it isn't. These are just meaningless buzzwords. Like I said: if you want to create an actual argument, provide examples of abilities and perform a comparison of ability pools to prove that PoE lacks class identity. Of course, you can't do this, because you've never played PoE and know nothing of the AD&D games to begin with as you've proven time and time again while spouting retardation.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Deadfire sidekicks have their personalities expanded upon in DLCs:

100 hours into the game, your sidekick might possibly speak once.

Amazing game design.

 

[0sacred]

What? You can do both.

The cleric/wizard can do both in AD&D

Yeah wizards are totally attacking with weapons in AD&D at low levels much.

Paladins, Rangers and Barbs have abilities and spells too.

Barbarians are just auto-attackers with a rage button. Paladins and Rangers are not pure martials by definition since they have spellcasting. Paladins and Rangers are another example of class identity destruction in AD&D since they usurp the roles of pure martials by being able to auto-attack just as effectively (if not better due to self-buffs and itemization such as the holy avenger) while also having aditional spells and abilities. Another retarded strawman.

So PoE's classes make you feel better about yourself because their special moves are labelled abilities and not spells. Yeah that's big brain stuff.

A pure class cleric won't have the attacks per round

Seeking Sword sets your APR to 3, retard, and works normally with Improved Haste, that's almost the same.

By your own definition, casting spells as an attack isn't the same as doing a martial's job. Try being consistent at least.

Considering that Cleric can cast powerful self-buffs such as Righteous Might that maximizes damage rolls, that's more than competitive. Again, you show that you know absolutely nothing of the games you attempt to discuss.

Damage =/= ThAC0 which is what I originally said. Learn2read. Also are you confusing Draw Upon Holy Might and Righteous Magic? Draw bridges the gap between a 18/00 fighter and a 19 str low level cleric but the fighter still comes out on top in terms of attacks per round. Plus it's not sustainable for the cleric to keep up compared to a fighter.

IWD2 is 3rd Ed.

Never claimed otherwise, strawmanning retard. It is an example of a DnD game where a Codzilla can be successfully made.

And we aren't talking about that, try to keep up with the conversation dumbo.

It is an argument

No, it isn't. These are just meaningless buzzwords. Like I said: if you want to create an actual argument, provide examples of abilities and perform a comparison of ability pools to prove that PoE lacks class identity.

This is not the argument as you claimed PoE has much better class identity than IE games. Early onset dementia?

 

[MjKorz]

at low levels

Trying to move goalposts after having your lack of game knowledge exposed. Tell me again how wizards can't fight on the frontline in AD&D, retard.

So PoE's classes make you feel better about yourself because their special moves are labelled abilities and not spells.

Meaningless drivel that has nothing to do with the argument at hand. PoE martial classes have a pool of unique abilities that are both offensive and defensive. AD&D martial classes are just auto-attack bots whose identity is completely destroyed by casters such as clerics, paladins, rangers and even wizards, because these classes can auto-attack and cast their class spells.

casting spells as an attack isn't the same as doing a martial's job

Seeking sword is not a direct offensive spell, you're still auto-attacking after casting it. You can't even use google.

Damage =/= ThAC0 which is what I originally said.

You claimed that a cleric cannot compete with a fighter in terms of number of attacks, which was already proven false by seeking sword. Comparable or even superior damage is obtained through Righteous Magic. THAC0 is a non-issue, because the cleric will have capped strength while the fighter will not, bridging the THAC0 gap.

PoE has much better class identity than IE games

Of course it does, proven by the unique ability pools of PoE classes, including martials who retain their class identity compared to any other class in any tactical niche. This is not the case in AD&D where martials get their class identity assassinated by casters, both full and partial, who can autoattack just as well if not better and cast spells on top.

You know nothing of any of these games and your opinions are ignorant, worthless dogshit.

 

[0sacred]

at low levels

Trying to move goalposts after having your lack of game knowledge exposed. Tell me again how wizards can't fight on the frontline in AD&D, retard.

Two strawmen in one, wow. First of all I already admitted that at high levels classes become more similar in AD&D, while this is true for PoE from the start. Secondly, the benefits of having a single class mage in AD&D up front are not exactly great, so no one does it.

So PoE's classes make you feel better about yourself because their special moves are labelled abilities and not spells.

Meaningless drivel that has nothing to do with the argument at hand. PoE martial classes have a pool of unique abilities that are both offensive and defensive. AD&D martial classes are just auto-attack bots whose identity is completely destroyed by casters such as clerics, paladins, rangers and even wizards, because these classes can auto-attack and cast their class spells.

Barbarians are just auto-attackers with a rage button. Paladins and Rangers are not pure martials by definition since they have spellcasting. Paladins and Rangers are another example of class identity destruction in AD&D since they usurp the roles of pure martials by being able to auto-attack just as effectively (if not better due to self-buffs and itemization such as the holy avenger) while also having aditional spells and abilities. Another retarded strawman.

Tell me again how what I said doesn't have bearing on what you said there, cunt. Also nice job on lumping in Rangers and Paladins with casters rather than martials, I don't think you'll find much support for that theory.

casting spells as an attack isn't the same as doing a martial's job

Seeking sword is not a direct offensive spell, you're still auto-attacking after casting it. You can't even use google.

LMAO it seems it's only available to Priests of Helm. Of which there aren't any in the game if you don't create one. In 1 game in the entire series we're talking about (we're not talking about 3rd Ed. remember?). Can you come up with more weird outliers for your sweeping generalizations?

Damage =/= ThAC0 which is what I originally said.

You claimed that a cleric cannot compete with a fighter in terms of number of attacks, which was already proven false by seeking sword. Comparable or even superior damage is obtained through Righteous Magic. THAC0 is a non-issue, because the cleric will have capped strength while the fighter will not, bridging the THAC0 gap.

Try playing through Icewind Dale with only clerics as your physical damage dealers and report back with your findings. Be sure to tell us if you shouldn't have chosen a few martials instead.

PoE has much better class identity than IE games

Of course it does, proven by the unique ability pools of PoE classes, including martials who retain their class identity compared to any other class in any tactical niche. This is not the case in AD&D where martials get their class identity assassinated by casters, both full and partial, who can autoattack just as well if not better and cast spells on top.

You know nothing of any of these games and your opinions are ignorant, worthless dogshit.

By your own definition, martials in PoE aren't really martials due to their spell-like abilities. Try to cope more.

You're a retard, an autist and a pleb with shit taste all rolled into one. I'll leave you to roll around in your spittle while shouting "meaningless buzzwords!" at your mom as she enters the basement bewilderedly. Until we meet again, faggot.

 

[MjKorz]

First of all I already admitted that at high levels classes become more similar in AD&D

Which means you no longer have an argument since AD&D class identity has proven to be garbage compared to PoE where classes retain their identity through unique ability pools at all levels.

how what I said doesn't have bearing on what you said there

Again: meaningless drivel. It doesn't matter how you label or call the abilities, call them spells if it soothes your asspain, I couldn't care less. The point is that unique ability/spell pools exist for each class in PoE, including martials. These unique ability pools differentiate the classes in terms of gameplay in any tactical niche. A melee fighter does not fight the same as a melee wizard in PoE, because the ability pools for both classes are different. A wizard fighting in melee can replace a fighter in AD&D, because both classes just auto-attack in melee, except the wizard is self-buffed. The AD&D fighter does not have any unique abilities to differentiate it from a melee wizard and thus his class identity is destroyed.

Also nice job on lumping in Rangers and Paladins with casters rather than martials

They cast spells, retard. They are casters by definition, just not full casters.

LMAO it seems it's only available to Priests of Helm. Of which there aren't any in the game if you don't create one. In 1 game in the entire series we're talking about (we're not talking about 3rd Ed. remember?). Can you come up with more weird outliers for your sweeping generalizations?

All retarded strawmen and excuses after your lack of game knowledge has been exposed. You have been objectively proven wrong, clerics CAN compete with fighters in terms of number of attacks and I have explained how. I couldn't care less about your excuses, the Codzilla has been demonstrably crafted.

Try playing through Icewind Dale with only clerics

You can solo IWD with a cleric, retard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ4T2El46kY&list=PLrj6AbU5IwsFZymibhXwH_VI8KyLEC2Na

Again, complete and utter lack of game knowledge. Now proceed to cope how it "doesn't count", because it's not a single class character when the melee damage component is provided fully by the cleric kit.

By your own definition, martials in PoE aren't really martials due to their spell-like abilities

Martial abilities are not spells in PoE, they use different mechanics compared to spells. This is not a case of simple naming difference. Abilities do not follow spell mastery rules. Martial per-rest abilities do not become per encounter and martials have many passives and modals which are not spells. Again, you demonstrate complete and utter lack of game knowledge, which is a surprise to no one since you've already been outed as someone who has never even played PoE.

 

[jackofshadows]

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fuck each other already

 

[the mole]

Most people who play RPGs would not put up with it now. They'd reject an RPG as basic as the first Baldur's Gate.

I played baldur's gate for the first time last year and I found it pretty charming, one of the few games I've actually finished in that time period

 

[Roguey]

I played baldur's gate for the first time last year and I found it pretty charming, one of the few games I've actually finished in that time period

You played an old game either for free or for cheap. Black Geyser seems to be truer to the BG experience than PoE (have it, haven't played it yet) and it did not do well.

 

[the mole]

I played baldur's gate for the first time last year and I found it pretty charming, one of the few games I've actually finished in that time period

You played an old game either for free or for cheap. Black Geyser seems to be truer to the BG experience than PoE (have it, haven't played it yet) and it did not do well.

I've bought quite a few games on sale in the last year and beaten none of them, but I did beat baldur's gate

 

[Beans00]

The only people who like pillars of eternity are bowlcuts.

 

[RunningWolf]

PoE entire reason for existing was "it will be just like old infinity engine games". I remember it clearly. That's the only reason anyone gave them any money. But after their titillating writing and soundtrack that so expertly sends the players straight into coma, nobody brought the second game lmao. Which is a rare justice served in to a developer. Well almost. Obsidian deserved to completely go out of business for PoE2 and Tyranny endings. If you can even call that shit endings and not a straight up scam.

 

[Cryomancer]

Pillars is Baldur's Gate with 4e balance cultism ie - trash.

BG has 102 spells, PoE has 162 by my count.

Quality > Quantity.

Compare Cloudkill with "malignant cloud". Disintegrate actually disintegrate stuff in BG1/2. Contrary to PoE which only deals damage.

"it will be just like old infinity engine games".

Honestly, I liked Black Geyser much, much more than PoE 1/2.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Does plague have feature parity with the Black Death?

 

[Beans00]

The most dangerous enemy in the pillars games: Boredom.

I actually fell asleep playing PoE 2. That has never happened with any game before. Let that sink in.

 

[Cryomancer]

PoE 2 story is bad.
PoE 2 setting is bad.
PoE 2 mechanics are 4e tier bad
PoE 2 spells are 4e tier bad
PoE 2 naval combat is shit (UnderRail expedition > rest in this aspect)
(...)
The idea of making a spiritual successor of Infinity Engine is great, but why bring everything that sucks in modern game development into it?

 

[Roguey]

The idea of making a spiritual successor of Infinity Engine is great, but why bring everything that sucks in modern game development into it?

Deadfire was not an Infinity Engine successor or promoted as such.

 

[Beans00]

The idea of making a spiritual successor of Infinity Engine is great, but why bring everything that sucks in modern game development into it?

Deadfire was not an Infinity Engine successor or promoted as such.

Deadfire was a commercial failure, sadly for Obsidian.

 

[Cryomancer]

The first POE sold well because people were expecting a BG spiritual successor. After everyone saw the 4E cultism in it, no one cared about PoE2. If you look to GDC talk about PoE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvyrEhAMUPo), Sawyer talks about how attributes are bad in OG AD&D, and one of his arguments is that Wizards only need INT.

You can agree or disagree that this is a problem, but assuming that is for the sake of argumentation. Other games "solved" the problem in a different way; for example, in GURPS, your STR and DEX influence throw runs with a fireball, determining accuracy and range. He could make so different spells that schools required different attributes, so an enchantress requires high charisma, an illusionist, and high dexterity, but no, "the more muscle mass a wizard, the hotter the fireball he can produce." And enemies have too much high HP, even small animals have no problem surviving arquebuss shots.

 

[ShiningSoldier]

Both PoE and BG (old and new) are boring.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

The problem of PoE, when compared to BG3, is that it is trying to copy the infinity engine games, while BG3 is not. This means that PoE has a fairly inexistent emergent gameplay and interactions with the enviroment. In PoE everything is a backdrop for pre-scripted event and every obstacle has a pre-determined scripted solution: obstacles aren't inherent in the gameplay, but they are artificially attached on an inert backdrop. In this respect BG3 is more similar to Fallout 1&2, while PoE is more similar to BG1&2.

The great positive of PoE is that it has no romances and no cringe dialogues.

 

[ShiningSoldier]

The great positive of PoE is that it has no romances and no cringe dialogues.

I don't like BG3 dialogues, but I think the dialogues in PoE are worse. Sure, they're not that "cringe" - they're just extremely dull, with tons of empty words.

 

[MjKorz]

You can agree or disagree that this is a problem

No need to agree or disagree with anything. Simply count the number of stats that are important in making a character in different systems and make a conclusion based on which system offers more consequences to your character building choices. In PoE, every stat is important in a sense that dumping any stat will have significant mechanical consequences for any class and all classes rely on multiple stats for effective offense. This fact alone is enough for PoE to mog most RPG systems.

"the more muscle mass a wizard, the hotter the fireball he can produce."

Is a problem that exists only in your head. You can explain any mechanical behavior with appropriate lore. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant.

And enemies have too much high HP

More like your shitbuilds have no damage.

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