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Interview Dragon Age 2 vs. Fable 3

CraigCWB

Educated
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
193
nFn said:
Redguard wasnt a generic 3rd-person-action-adventure when everyone else was churning 3rd-person-action-adventures

"Everyone else" was doing it, eh?

Such as?

nFn said:
Battlespire...it wasnt a half-assed slam-dunk-dungeoncrawl

I wouldn't know about either of them because I decided they weren't worth bothering with when I first read the Bethesda marketing spiel.

nFn said:
I think someone is going senile

Yeah, that part where you seemed to be claiming that Bethesda was jumping on the band wagon with their 3rd person "action adventure games" when most rational people know that Bethesda practically invented that sub-genre and that everyone else who was making such games was copying Bethesda is pretty alarming. That's almost as bad as trying to claim Blizzard was making clones of somebody else games when they released the Diablo series. And you actually seem to think some games named "Redguard" and "Battlepsire" were significant in some way, but I'll guarantee you that even most codexians have never even heard of them.

EDIT: I seem to have misunderstood what you were trying to claim about Redguard and Battlepsire but who gives a shit? You're an ass for even introducing them into the discussion as they were failed experiments like Bioware's "Jade Empire" fuck-story.
 

waywardOne

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Messages
2,318
grotsnik said:
Could be that you just develop that sort of attitude after years of listening to fans yelp...

except that Bioware 2010 is not Bioware 1998. the fucking retard who came up with DA's kindergarten mechanics grew up on NWN. the streamlining was there from the start.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,693
CraigCWB said:
So, Roguey, this Laidlaw guy is claiming that he's killing the children in order to save them, Janet Reno style? And you like that?
Yes.
This guy should go talk to Ray about this, because Ray was all over usenet pitching Baldur's Gate as a *REAL* RPG, that wasn't going to peddle to the lowest common denominator like all the old school RPG developers were doing.
Did he really say that? Sounds like the same thing Robyn was saying about trying to sell to everyone. Because BG certainly felt like an attempt to be accessible and reach a wide audience, and the sales back that up with over 2 million copies sold to date whereas in 1994, the nine AD&D Gold Box games combined had only sold over a million (box art source).
If the fanbase is shrinking now it's not the fault of the market - the demand is there. It's the fault of developers.
But their fanbase isn't shrinking. DA and ME2 are their best-selling games which is pretty impressive considering their multi-million-selling back catalog's been out for years. But as Dr. Greg says, they now need to sell over 10 MILLION to have what they would consider a hit. Take out that streamlining scalpel and cut cut cut because the talent certainly isn't there.
 

Hamster

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
5,936
Location
Moscow
Codex 2012 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014
Roguey said:
DalekFlay said:
Yeah, criticizing anything in a Bioware game on their forum gets you a post from a developer giving you what for. They don't really listen to the community or interact with them as much as tell them like it is. The common response to worrying about the RPG-ness of Dragon Age 2 is "shut the fuck up we'll make the game we want to make."
I for one, love the Bioware shoulder-chip.
287pyir.png

Laidlaw admits he's including features for the... disabled. Otherwise RPGs will be KILLED. Then one of the cinematic designers chimes in with
2920f2d.png

Oh the dissonance. I love Bioware so much. :love:

Wait a minute, what exactly are they talking about? Some simple indicator to show retards how good a set of armour is?
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Hamster said:
Wait a minute, what exactly are they talking about? Some simple indicator to show retards how good a set of armour is?

I think its a indicator to says your equipped armor sucks now even if it did not sucked back when you put it on at lv1, I suppose it just checks your level and checks a list before it says "A-OK" or "Sucks".

Defending what is a "feature" to the mental handicapped just boggles my mind, its because of doing shit like this people that actually PLAYED RPGs were moving away because they are just action games with some really basic RPG mechanics.

Not to say I see no reason to even mentioning it as its going to piss off you core customer base as the "casuals" are unlikely to even fucking bother to check the RPG features on the previews, its not like I go check GT5 or FIFA 11 as I dont play those type of games.

Edit:

Doing that on a MMORPG will be hilarious as they need a core playerbase that is more interested in playing the system instead of playing the game, going simplistic means you are going to piss off the hardcore PvP that do make up the core, if they do it in their Star Wars game I give it about a year before they start rolling "incentives" for the old players to come back.

None of those are going to give a shit if the quest NPCs are voiced or not, heck back in WoW I pretty much just closed the dialog box and THEM checked what the quest objectives were.
 
Joined
Nov 1, 2008
Messages
7,953
Location
Cuntington Manor
Because BG certainly felt like an attempt to be accessible and reach a wide audience, and the sales back that up with over 2 million copies sold to date whereas in 1994, the nine AD&D Gold Box games combined had only sold over a million (box art source).

Oh, BG was the least of the dumbening in those days. Look what happened to SSI as an example. Everything was going full real time, full action oriented. Diablow and it's clones around every corner...

True, there was Fallout, and a small handful of others, but BG was really the least of the problems at that time.
 

Hamster

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
5,936
Location
Moscow
Codex 2012 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014
Drakron said:
Hamster said:
Wait a minute, what exactly are they talking about? Some simple indicator to show retards how good a set of armour is?

I think its a indicator to says your equipped armor sucks now even if it did not sucked back when you put it on at lv1, I suppose it just checks your level and checks a list before it says "A-OK" or "Sucks".

But i know a better solution to this problem: ditch retarded text-based console inventory and bring back proper pictures and description for items, like in Baldur's Gate. That way normal people can read actual stats and retarded people can just look at the picture and see that this sword looks more awesome than previous one.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
They are targeting consoletards in the first place.

Besides that is a non issue, they can do it the way you say (more or less) but they assume the audience to be stupid and have to be pandered to, they keep dumbing it down to be more "accessible" to the points you see in Mass Effect 2 that is a Action game, of course when do so they are also going to compete with other Action games so any audience they could have gained will have other titles to consider, they end up making Dragon Age competing along with God of War, Gears of War and since they alienated their core audience they face less assured sales.

Dont get confused by the "happy positive" Internet were (almost) nothing is a failure, most projects ARE failures and their inability to specialize on genders will cause them to continue to be failures ... after all, one thing is releasing a RPG were are few on the market and another is release Yet Another Action Game were there is plenty of choices.

That is why I rarely play games these days ... its either Modern Warfare clones (down to USA! USA! EVIL RUSSIA!) or another generic action game "press A to kill enemy".
 

Arcanoix

Scholar
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
574
I just ask because BioWare seems to be heading in a very Lionhead-ish direction with its RPGs – the key features haven’t so much been changed as “digested”,

Digested - as in eaten and pooped out. Shit is still shit. Thank you. /wait for applause
 

Arcanoix

Scholar
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
574
Hamster said:
Roguey said:
DalekFlay said:
Yeah, criticizing anything in a Bioware game on their forum gets you a post from a developer giving you what for. They don't really listen to the community or interact with them as much as tell them like it is. The common response to worrying about the RPG-ness of Dragon Age 2 is "shut the fuck up we'll make the game we want to make."
I for one, love the Bioware shoulder-chip.
287pyir.png

Laidlaw admits he's including features for the... disabled. Otherwise RPGs will be KILLED. Then one of the cinematic designers chimes in with
2920f2d.png

Oh the dissonance. I love Bioware so much. :love:

Wait a minute, what exactly are they talking about? Some simple indicator to show retards how good a set of armour is?

Stats =/= RPG. D&D wasn't about fucking stats. I ought to record the ending of Dragon Age with my guy landing the 'killing blow' f'ing naked and post it. I think I will.
 

Arcanoix

Scholar
Joined
Dec 12, 2008
Messages
574
waywardOne said:
grotsnik said:
Could be that you just develop that sort of attitude after years of listening to fans yelp...

except that Bioware 2010 is not Bioware 1998. the fucking retard who came up with DA's kindergarten mechanics grew up on NWN. the streamlining was there from the start.

I grewup on NWN, thank you very much, and even *I* see the mechanics as being stupid. Spell power - hmm, what other game has that? Oh, yeah. An MMO.

:rpgcodex:
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Arcanoix said:
Stats =/= RPG. D&D wasn't about fucking stats.

Except it was, even 3rd Ed. that had skills also was about stats.

Of course D&D emerged from Chainmail that was a wargame so of course it was going to reply on stats.

Unless you are a LARPer that thinks that RPGs are about Roleplaying that is just a fucking stupid notion as even developers like to use to explain how their Action "RPGs" are RPGs using the same type of "logic" were Halo can be called a RPG.

I say once again, character skill vs player skill ... a RPG should not rely on player skill and when it does it to a point were 90% of gameplay depends on player skill it cannot be called a RPG.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
3,524

Don't you love how they try to turn it into a battle of morality and benevolence? And of course they try to take the most extreme moral high ground they can possibly reach: "We are thinking of everyone here and just want to spread the love to as many people as possible unlike you selfish customers who just happen to pay us for our garbage, we are certainly not doing it so we can get as much money as possible FFS, we are making moral choices faggets."

Pathetic. You can be absolutely sure that if that wasn't the most (seemingly) profitable strategy for them they would come up with some other bullshit like "This isn't about making people happy. We r fukingawesomeartists n vishunaries and we will not compromise our work just to please you peasants. FFS"

And to top it all off, more pure retardation incarnated in physical form rises to join the crusade to exclaim "You are insulting my millions of friends with your customer complaints so STFU ITS JUTS A FUCKING GAME TARDS. UR NERDS STFU. STOP HURTING MY FREINDS OR WE WILL BAN U BAWWWW

Fucking children trying to disguise themselves behind adult words. Maybe if you weren't so insecure in the first place as to get insulted by some random people on a forum you wouldn't have to grasp at utterly outrageous arguments. Get back to polishing your shit
 

Archibald

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
I ought to record the ending of Dragon Age with my guy landing the 'killing blow' f'ing naked and post it. I think I will.

Brutal argument. I think that Drakron`s logic will surely fail against this.

Doing that on a MMORPG will be hilarious as they need a core playerbase that is more interested in playing the system instead of playing the game, going simplistic means you are going to piss off the hardcore PvP that do make up the core, if they do it in their Star Wars game I give it about a year before they start rolling "incentives" for the old players to come back.

None of those are going to give a shit if the quest NPCs are voiced or not, heck back in WoW I pretty much just closed the dialog box and THEM checked what the quest objectives were.

In theory it is possible that they`ll bring faggotry into MMO genre too. Hardly, but i`d say possible.
 

Andyman Messiah

Mr. Ed-ucated
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
9,933
Location
Narnia
I ought to record the ending of Dragon Age with my guy landing the 'killing blow' f'ing naked and post it. I think I will.
I actually did exactly this. Then I imported him into Awakening and watched the intro as he walked with his cock out to the keep. Didn't record it though.
 

Rhalle

Magister
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
2,192
Don't you love how they try to turn it into a battle of morality and benevolence? And of course they try to take the most extreme moral high ground they can possibly reach: "We are thinking of everyone here and just want to spread the love to as many people as possible unlike you selfish customers who just happen to pay us for our garbage, we are certainly not doing it so we can get as much money as possible FFS, we are making moral choices faggets."

Pathetic. You can be absolutely sure that if that wasn't the most (seemingly) profitable strategy for them they would come up with some other bullshit like "This isn't about making people happy. We r fukingawesomeartists n vishunaries and we will not compromise our work just to please you peasants. FFS"

And to top it all off, more pure retardation incarnated in physical form rises to join the crusade to exclaim "You are insulting my millions of friends with your customer complaints so STFU ITS JUTS A FUCKING GAME TARDS. UR NERDS STFU. STOP HURTING MY FREINDS OR WE WILL BAN U BAWWWW

Fucking children trying to disguise themselves behind adult words. Maybe if you weren't so insecure in the first place as to get insulted by some random people on a forum you wouldn't have to grasp at utterly outrageous arguments. Get back to polishing your shit

They're wretched-- as wrectched as their vomitously ugly "social site" designed to drive off the old-schoolers and draw-in the consoletards.

Nothing but corporate sophistry, faux-sanctimony and transparent dishonesty. They suck at lying as much as they do coding engines and game mechanics.

Sylvius is a veteran numbers wonk from the old Bioboards. Surprised to see he's still there.

They're so scared of mass market goons feeling insulted they would never admit to any kind of intelligence difference.

Exactly. And they appear to have turned up the volume on it.

It used to be that only Gaider would pop in to certain threads and pretend not to be a doughy disingenous mountain of arrogance himself while he sang the tune.

Looks like the whole BW gang has joined in-- not surprisingly, with Mr. Laidlaw leading.
 

Dantus12

Educated
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
Messages
235
The former heads of DAO,are gone Dan Tudge and Brent Knowles.
The streamlining is normal for their plan for a MMO,and now they are adapting the sheeple via a facebook tie in:
http://dragonage.bioware.com/legends
and this after benting for EA again:
http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/02/technol ... /index.htm

Their forum posts are a bunch of lies, but the kiddos there are all ave struck,whenever a dev quotes them in a post,or drags the concerns in to silliness.
 

torpid

Liturgist
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
1,099
Location
Isma's Grove
Excommunicator said:

Don't you love how they try to turn it into a battle of morality and benevolence? And of course they try to take the most extreme moral high ground they can possibly reach: "We are thinking of everyone here and just want to spread the love to as many people as possible unlike you selfish customers who just happen to pay us for our garbage, we are certainly not doing it so we can get as much money as possible FFS, we are making moral choices faggets."

I love how Laidlaw makes the analogy about the poor one-handed guy who would be denied his character's ability to run because of people complaining on the internet. :lol: That's some shameless humanitarian posturing right there. Complaining about a feature in our game is depriving disabled customers of their right to play!!!1!
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Archibald said:
I ought to record the ending of Dragon Age with my guy landing the 'killing blow' f'ing naked and post it. I think I will.

Brutal argument. I think that Drakron`s logic will surely fail against this.

Doing that on a MMORPG will be hilarious as they need a core playerbase that is more interested in playing the system instead of playing the game, going simplistic means you are going to piss off the hardcore PvP that do make up the core, if they do it in their Star Wars game I give it about a year before they start rolling "incentives" for the old players to come back.

None of those are going to give a shit if the quest NPCs are voiced or not, heck back in WoW I pretty much just closed the dialog box and THEM checked what the quest objectives were.

In theory it is possible that they`ll bring faggotry into MMO genre too. Hardly, but i`d say possible.

Hate to say it, but that's EXACTLY what I'd tell them to do, if the aim was to make money. Now I fucking hate Bioware's story-telling. But I have to recognise that many many folks don't. That's because there's a huge audience out there for pulp trash fantasy, especially when the player gets to choose which gender/species his so-amazingly-attractive-that-everything-in-the-world-wants-to-shag-them character is interested in. So, their competitive advantage is in the story-driven market. That means NOT shutting folks out from participating in major story events because they can't/don't raid or are plain awful. Incidentally, I think the can't/don't raid thing is a valid excuse - raiding is just one style of gameplay, and it is a fucking travesty that it has somehow become lorded as the 'elite' endgame way of mmorpging, that you must do to play through the major plot points. But regardless, they shouldn't be doing anything that shuts players out from story progression.

That doesn't have to be retarded in and of itself. From what I gather, LotRO did a good job of carving out a niche as the 'story' mmorpg, where players from either the mega-hardcore mmorpgs (Eve, anything from Korea), or the themeparks ones (WoW) would write it off for having inadequate content, but it still built a profitable base of ultra-loyal fans by a policy of (a) story-focus and (b) not locking players out of the story simply because they don't want to raid. LotRO should be KoTOR3's main competitor, if they're smart. I.e. don't go against WoW - take on the Tolkein folk, it's a style of mmorpg that is less time-consuming and so many of them might actually play both games, and it plays to Bioware's reputation.

But secondly, why would you create another raiding mmorpg at all? Of any style? There are fucktons of raiding mmorpgs out there, from WoW-themeparks to Korean 'I-get-to-role-play-having-another-job-as-a-meaningless-pawn-in-a-major-corporation-because-I-get-bored-of-my-real-job-as-a-international-superspy' grindfests. That game has been done and if you want to be a major player, you need to avoid that market like the plague.

Retardation is the only way I can see Bioware making money on this one. And even then it's a long shot. Few people are going to see this as a genuine 'sequel' - if they're interested it's just because it's a Bioware Star Wars mmorpg - not because they're following the story of Revan and the Exile. And story-driven gamers aren't going to want to pay a subscription when the game's biggest selling point is that it's almost like a single player game.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
Jesus fucking christ on a pogo-stick- everything that Mike Ladlaw says is exactly what is wrong with RPG's nowadays. Todd Howard & Mike Ladlaw = scourge of RPGs.

FIREBOMB SQUADRON - new target acquired.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Laidlaw seems to believe only he can save the entire RPG genre by getting it to sell Call of Duty numbers, even if he has to kill every single fucking thing that makes them RPGs in the fist place.
 

janjetina

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
14,231
Location
Zagreb, Croatia
Torment: Tides of Numenera
Computer games have never been too complex for individuals with average intelligence and above. Present games have managed to shift their focus to the left part of the Gauss curve though. All it remains are drooling idiots on the left tail, but Microsoft has provided the means (X-brick) and Laidlaw will provide the solution.

This is just a reduction to the lowest common denominator on all fronts. Games, that are the lowest common denominator of genres and features are being made by developers who are the lowest common denominator in design, art and coding and sold to the people who are the lowest common denominator with respect to their intellectual abilities and taste.
 

Xor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
9,345
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The problem with that approach is that it won't even work in the long term. Eventually people are going to realize what they're being given and they'll stop buying games. It's probably why game sales have been going down in established regions over the past decade; people are getting sick of seeing the same shit over and over, and new gamers aren't coming in fast enough to replace them.
 

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