Dragon Age: Inquisition Pre-Release Thread

[Jaesun]

Who is going to take one for the team do a Let's Play for this?

 

[Black]

I nominate Cassidy.

 

[kris]

I am actually planning to review it. Hopefully it will be a good contribution to the site.

I aklso been considering doing it. I haven't done a proper review in a few years now. (EU3 + SW:empire at war)

We might even collaborate on that front. Say, we might pick different ugly waifus to hate. Message each other to make a single text. Etc.

Possibly. I will of course do a whole playthrough of the game. Usually as a too-goody-two-shoes kind of guy. certainly it would be good to have someone that played quite differently and particularly see if it made any difference and whether there were any consequences to choices. And see what anyone else thought about characters and story. Because apart from the pure informational part therein lies most the opinion and sadly it seems also plenty of unintentional parody.

Very well then. I'll play the game as an asshole type of person and I do intend to review it only after a whole playthrough. Do you have any preferred class and difficulty level? Also, maybe Infinitron should know.

Send Crooked Bee and myself a PM when the game comes out if you still plan on doing it then.

November is a real dark and gray month up here, very likely I will.

 

[Delterius]

Send Crooked Bee and myself a PM when the game comes out if you still plan on doing it then.

I shall do so. November should be a comfortable month to go to the beaches of Rio but who needs that when a trainwreck (hopefully) begs to be seen?

Hopefully, you won't have to be an asshole to experience different content/results. I mean like Mages vs. Templars for example. If choosing one's gonna be an obvious dick move, then BW failed...

Actually, I believe that personality is likely to be most important when factoring in other party members. That's where being an asshole probably counts. As opposed to the main story that can't deviate that much from the base.

 

[eremita]

They will praise the writing because, let's face it bros, Bioware is still above average/great by gaming standards

lolno

Incidentally, I don't think they ever were. The Baldur's Gate games came out around the same time as RPG's like Fallout, Torment and Deus Ex. The great tragedy of BG2 is arguably that it received acclaim for the wrong things (the story and companions rather than the tactically interesting encounters and well-designed dungeons), presumably leading Bioware to shift their priorities...

...and the rest is history.

Fallout and Torment? Well, you just refuted your "lolno" yourself then, didn't you? Those are not your mainstream average now and never have been. (Torment was a disaster from financial point of view and Fallout wasn't exactly a big hit either btw). I was talking about mainstream category, certainly not about period of time...

Fallout and Torment had the same publisher as the BG games. They were mainstream games that were profitable (Fallout even got several sequels in a short amount of time), just nowhere as much as the smash hit that was Baldur's Gate. Which had less to do with them supposedly not being palatable for mainstream audiences and more to do with BG being traditional fantasy and better marketed.

The Black Isle games were more 'mainstream' for their time than for example Obsidian's games, I reckon.

Oh God, are you for real?! Okay. First this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream Are you done reading? Great. Now look up the era of Black Isle publishing Torment and Fallout. Now compare it to present state of Gaming Industry. See the difference? You should because it's pretty fucking big... By the very definition of mainstream, there's none when new (sub)culture emerges. So again, I'm not talking about period of time (you still are, applying today's standards on era, which was abolutely unique in every aspect), but about mainstream category. In mainstream world, those games would never happened. Nobody played Fallout and Torment...

Just look at new Torment - see how it's funded, developed, to whom is it marketed and what are they trying to achieve with it...

 

[pippin]

To be fair, when IWD was going to be released, most magazines were saying stuff in the lines of "finally a new exciting rpg from this great company!". Today most gaming media is like "uh, wats Obsidian?". At least from what I gather....

 

[Athelas]

Just look at new Torment - see how it's funded, developed, to whom is it marketed and what are they trying to achieve with it...

You could say the same thing about Pillars of Eternity, which raised less than T:ToN by the way. Does that suddenly mean Baldur's Gate wasn't mainstream?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

*fart sounds*

He means what was considered mainstream for the time. Everything will look like a flop compared to the AAA level stuff we have now.

 

[eremita]

There was no mainstream audience in late 90's era of CRPGs is what I was trying to say faggots.

 

[Jaesun]

 

[Delterius]

Oh God, are you for real?! Okay. First this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream Are you done reading? Great. Now look up the era of Black Isle publishing Torment and Fallout. Now compare it to present state of Gaming Industry. See the difference? You should because it's pretty fucking big... By the very definition of mainstream, there's none when new (sub)culture emerges. So again, I'm not talking about period of time (you still are, applying today's standards on era, which was abolutely unique in every aspect), but about mainstream category. In mainstream world, those games would never happened. Nobody played Fallout and Torment...

Just look at new Torment - see how it's funded, developed, to whom is it marketed and what are they trying to achieve with it...

Actually it is you who is applying today's standards on a past era.

Fallout, Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment were all the cutting edge and the mainstream of their time. The same can be said about Wizadry and Ultima a decade prior. All of these series were profitable and all of them were played by a sizable portion of their time's gaming community. That Baldur's Gate grew to become the 'classic' that people herald it to be is History.

Wizadry, Isometric Fallout and Torment, each became part of a strong and cohesive, if small and niche genre. Ultimate would still live on further as an MMO and its greatest entries, IV, VII and Underworld, influenced countless of the greatest franchises we have today. The same can be said about Wizadry, which built a legacy across the pacific. And everyone and their mother cites Planescape Torment as a standard for excellence in video game writing. If anything, the past few years have shown, is that the legacy built by these games is no less than that of Baldur's Gate.

In light of that we can't stop at the numbers that well marketed and funded games from EA can (and absolutely MUST) pull and say 'well, that's the mainstream gaming, certain criticism doesn't apply'. I do think that Dragon Age is probably above average when it comes to writing in AAA gaming in general but that's no excuse for unholy things like Merril.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

In light of that we can't stop at the numbers that well marketed and funded games from EA can (and absolutely MUST) pull and say 'well, that's the mainstream gaming, certain criticism doesn't apply'. I do think that Dragon Age is probably above average when it comes to writing in AAA gaming in general but that's no excuse for unholy things like Merril.

 

[dryan]

What the fuck is that hilarious prancing scene? I don't remember it from the game

 

[Delterius]

Turns out I quite before that scene. Oh God.

But credit where credit is due. You do get to tell Merril and Fenris that they suck.

 

[King Arthur]

Did they ever explain why Loghain loved Ferelden so much?

What a funny question to ask. Regardless of what they bring, be it FREEDOOMS or a new tax burden (or both), people tend to get kind of touchy about invading armies. Doubly so if such an invasion was still a fact two generations ago.

If you do want more specific setting information, keep in mind I am working off memory here.

Fereldan despotism isn't supposed to be as bad as its orlesian counterpart. In game, BioWare makes it a point to reference how tyrannical the orlesians can be with their own peasantry. Their errant knights can basically murder and pillage at will.

On the other hand, the fereldan caste system is different with the lower classes being supposed to be more autonomous and to hold more rights.

In Orlais, all aspire to become part of the nobility since that's the only way your life doesn't suck. In Ferelden, a commoner can be generally content with a lower position, but that means a trade off: it is generally implied that the peasantry in Orlais is tied to the land, while the 'freemen' (sans elves and criminals) in Ferelden, are not. Basically, the orlesians treated their subjects the way fereldans are used to treating the city elves.

So its really just romanticized England and romanticized France from the point of view of someone from England.

So he's Braveheart, saving his land from rapacious nobles who claim primae noctis and outlaw outlawed tunes? Except the ones doing the raping in Ferelden are the local dukes, and there's really no music to speak of. I could see it being a practical matter, where the nobles of Ferelden are slightly less rapacious than the ones of Orlais, but for Loghain to not just prefer but love his despotic land because it's one increment less despotic than the next doesn't make sense. He's supposed to be a Macbethian character, so I don't see why simple ambition couldn't be his motive. It seems like the writers just assumed that moral ambiguity equaled better character, so they contrived a reason for their Macbeth to not be self-serving. It gets really ridiculous at the end when he has a sudden turnaround, after being defeated by the warden, and suddenly sees the light, then you have the options of either decapitating him or forgiving him and letting him sacrifice himself to slay the mighty dragon.

And speaking of dragons. Did it ever occur to you that the warden who, in most scenarios, begins life in a lowly capacity, such as an impoverished elf, or a dwarf, for instance, in a short amount of time becomes a grey warden, slays several dragons, including the godlike Flemeth, tracks down a legendary dwarven hero who had disappeared and been sought after by battle-hardened dwarven warriors for years, slays either all of the elves of the Bracillian forest or all of the werewolves, defeats two powerful demon lords, at the mage tower and in arl Eamon's court, discovers the lost ashes of a legendary Christ-like figure guarded by a dragon, invades several royal estates and defeats the men-at-arms therein, defeats the usurper king in combat with all of the nobles of the realm looking on, delivers the decapitating blow and appoints a person of his choosing to rule from then on, fights his or her way through the heart of the darkspawn horde and seeks out the archdemon in combat, slays it and in some way eradicates it's soul for good. That is quite the feat!

 

[dryan]

Turns out I quite before that scene. Oh God.

But credit where credit is due. You do get to tell Merril and Fenris that they suck.

The thing is I played the entire game multiple times and I don't remember that scene. Maybe I trauma blocked it.

 

[pippin]

Loghain was different because he was born as a peasant, but later got power as he was an hero of the war against Orlais. That's why you are advised to respect him; he betrayed the wardens but was still loved by many people. I dunno, I just killed him, causing delicious butthurt to her daughter.

Also, Merrill was a completely normal character from the Dalish origin segment. As many things, she got fucked in DA2, both figuratively and literally.

 

[dryan]

Loghain was different because he was born as a peasant, but later got power as he was an hero of the war against Orlais. That's why you are advised to respect him; he betrayed the wardens but was still loved by many people. I dunno, I just killed him, causing delicious butthurt to her daughter.

I made him join the Wardens, so Alistair would have a hissy, so then I could kill that annoying fag with moussed up hair.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Turns out I quite before that scene. Oh God.

But credit where credit is due. You do get to tell Merril and Fenris that they suck.

The thing is I played the entire game multiple times and I don't remember that scene. Maybe I trauma blocked it.

Nah, it's a modded scene, but really, really suitable for Merril.

 

[dryan]

Varric actually looks kinda endearing prancing like that

 

[Morgoth]

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Who is going to take one for the team do a Let's Play for this?

Well, I definitely will be hate-playing it, I just don't know how much I can take. All that I've seen points on that it would suck even more than DA2 did.

 

[eremita]

Oh God, are you for real?! Okay. First this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream Are you done reading? Great. Now look up the era of Black Isle publishing Torment and Fallout. Now compare it to present state of Gaming Industry. See the difference? You should because it's pretty fucking big... By the very definition of mainstream, there's none when new (sub)culture emerges. So again, I'm not talking about period of time (you still are, applying today's standards on era, which was abolutely unique in every aspect), but about mainstream category. In mainstream world, those games would never happened. Nobody played Fallout and Torment...

Just look at new Torment - see how it's funded, developed, to whom is it marketed and what are they trying to achieve with it...

Actually it is you who is applying today's standards on a past era.

Fallout, Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment were all the cutting edge and the mainstream of their time. The same can be said about Wizadry and Ultima a decade prior. All of these series were profitable and all of them were played by a sizable portion of their time's gaming community. That Baldur's Gate grew to become the 'classic' that people herald it to be is History.

Wizadry, Isometric Fallout and Torment, each became part of a strong and cohesive, if small and niche genre. Ultimate would still live on further as an MMO and its greatest entries, IV, VII and Underworld, influenced countless of the greatest franchises we have today. The same can be said about Wizadry, which built a legacy across the pacific. And everyone and their mother cites Planescape Torment as a standard for excellence in video game writing. If anything, the past few years have shown, is that the legacy built by these games is no less than that of Baldur's Gate.

In light of that we can't stop at the numbers that well marketed and funded games from EA can (and absolutely MUST) pull and say 'well, that's the mainstream gaming, certain criticism doesn't apply'. I do think that Dragon Age is probably above average when it comes to writing in AAA gaming in general but that's no excuse for unholy things like Merril.

No. Those classics were no mainstream because there was no mainstream. We have a gaming culture now. Back then, the culture was just emerging, so products of that future culture couldn't be defined. Only when there's established culture can we talk about something common, because we have means to analyze it. RPGCodex as an idea was only possible because mentioned culture was taking shape. Codex is not against evolution (its members would be dumb then), but against decline. "Something" not established can't decline.

By today's standards, BG falls in certain category. That category is now considered niche. That category was nonexistent back then. Therefore, when I'm not talking about period of time, I meant era where statements like "Bioware is still above average by mainstream standards." doesn't make any sense. The same waythis statement by Athelas is nonsensical: "They were mainstream games that were profitable (Fallout even got several sequels in a short amount of time), just nowhere as much as the smash hit that was Baldur's Gate." So no, I am not aplying today's standards, thanks to existing gaming culture, I do have standards at all.

Just look at new Torment - see how it's funded, developed, to whom is it marketed and what are they trying to achieve with it...

You could say the same thing about Pillars of Eternity, which raised less than T:ToN by the way. Does that suddenly mean Baldur's Gate wasn't mainstream?

Baldur's Gate wasn't mainstream because, again, there was no mainstream. Therefore, when Obsidian anounced PoE, those bazillion of Bioware customers didn't give a shit. Why? It was a supposed to be a spiritual successor to a Bioware game, so why Kickstarter? But there was no term like "Bioware game" back then, it's meaningless. There is audience for BG now, there was no audience for BG then, because there were no means hot to define audience for anything at all.

 

[Delterius]

So he's Braveheart, saving his land from rapacious nobles who claim primae noctis and outlaw outlawed tunes? Except the ones doing the raping in Ferelden are the local dukes, and there's really no music to speak of. I could see it being a practical matter, where the nobles of Ferelden are slightly less rapacious than the ones of Orlais, but for Loghain to not just prefer but love his despotic land because it's one increment less despotic than the next doesn't make sense.

Actually it happens a lot in history. A certain french jurist from the 1500s once wrote a text deflecting criticism of french despotism basically stating that the people from the tsardom had it much worse. A king in France might have some pretty awful rights over his people but, he claimed, that king who uses those for no reason won't be well remembered. In Russia that same king would probably become a canon saint.

Fact is that there's grounds to think that an orlesian rule of Ferelden leads to greater despotism. The political instability of the occupation basically warrants. And at the very least there should be a culture shock. The writers from BioWare can't go much further on that note than literally calling every farmer in the kingdom a 'freeman'.

There's also another point to be made about how Ferelden and Orlais are themselves tangible things. Early linguistic nationalism was a factor in the real world period that BioWare seemingly based both countries.

And speaking of dragons. Did it ever occur to you that the warden who, in most scenarios, begins life in a lowly capacity, such as an impoverished elf, or a dwarf, for instance, in a short amount of time becomes a grey warden, slays several dragons, including the godlike Flemeth, tracks down a legendary dwarven hero who had disappeared and been sought after by battle-hardened dwarven warriors for years, slays either all of the elves of the Bracillian forest or all of the werewolves, defeats two powerful demon lords, at the mage tower and in arl Eamon's court, discovers the lost ashes of a legendary Christ-like figure guarded by a dragon, invades several royal estates and defeats the men-at-arms therein, defeats the usurper king in combat with all of the nobles of the realm looking on, delivers the decapitating blow and appoints a person of his choosing to rule from then on, fights his or her way through the heart of the darkspawn horde and seeks out the archdemon in combat, slays it and in some way eradicates it's soul for good. That is quite the feat!

Average RPG fare. The warden isn't even the child of a dead god.

They do make a point of sucking the player's cock from early on. You are either the best apprentice the Mage Tower has ever seen; a great younger brother everyone thinks will actually become teyrnir; the prodigious son of dwarven royalty whose both brothers envy; or a crime king in the making.

 

[Jaesun]

BIOWARE