Decline Dreamfall Chapters - Console Immersion Action Decline Kickstarter [Spoilers]

[evdk]

What do you do if you don't want Dreamfall but do want TLJH?

Wait for Red Thread Games to finish developing Dreamfall Chapters, and donate to TLJ2 once it enters the production phase. If you donate to Dreamfall Chapters today, TLJ2 will enter production sooner, because the pre--production will be completed by the time of Dreamfall Chapter release. Oh, what are you supposed to do if you don't want Dreamfall Chapters to be made, period? Soaping up the rope should do the trick.

I've never trusted publishers / devs when they claimed that supporting a project I do not want would help a project I could enjoy to be made in the future. I do not see why I should change my ways now.

Fuck, this place is stupid. Someone burn it with napalm and nuclear fire, already.

Man, Georgia can't be that bad, can it.

 

[janjetina]

What do you do if you don't want Dreamfall but do want TLJH?

Wait for Red Thread Games to finish developing Dreamfall Chapters, and donate to TLJ2 once it enters the production phase. If you donate to Dreamfall Chapters today, TLJ2 will enter production sooner, because the pre--production will be completed by the time of Dreamfall Chapter release. Oh, what are you supposed to do if you don't want Dreamfall Chapters to be made, period? Soaping up the rope should do the trick.

I've never trusted publishers / devs when they claimed that supporting a project I do not want would help a project I could enjoy to be made in the future. I do not see why I should change my ways now.

Exactly. Fallout: POS alarm bells are ringing.

 

[Glyphwright]

This kickstarter is primarily targeted at fans who enjoyed both TLJ and Dreamfall, and would like to play sequels to both of these games. Point-and-click purists are a tiny minority of adventure game fans, and have been for a very long time, which is why adventure games relocated to 3D light-on-puzzles story-telling. Of course, Codexian crybabies throw a tantrum in response to any news, regardless of its content.


Game development world: *anything happens*

Codex:

Again, RTG are not saying they will only release TLJH if people give them two millions. They say that, if things go well, TLJH will be released regardless of the 2 million goal, but 2 millions will result in TLJH being released faster, because with 2 millions they can finish the pre-production phase on TLJH simultaneously with developing Dreamfall Chapters. Whether anyone believes this is convincing enough to warrant a donation is a matter of opinion, but you do not call this "holding a game hostage", or blackmailing fans.

Glyphwright wins, Codex loses.

 

[80Maxwell08]

I'm going to go ahead and bring up some examples from Capcom and Ubisoft.

When Capcom said they would love to do a remake of Resident Evil 2 and they "wanted to gauge fan desire for it" by asking more people to buy Resident Evil 6 people got pissed. Why? Because they were just trying to ring more money out of people for something that has no bearing on whether they are going to do it or not.

Ubisoft has done very similiar acts with Beyond Good & Evil 2 by promising it for basically anything the devs have been involved in. First it's "if enough people buy the HD versions we'll consider it". Then it was if Rayman Origins got enough sales they would consider it. I think I'm forgetting a few more examples of when they've done this but the principle is the same.

Now what's happening here. Red Thread Games are saying they will start making The Longest Journey Home if their Kickstarter (for an entirely different game) hits 2 million. Something that will have no bearing since it's already been said that only some of the money is going to it thus meaning it's main reason for being there to drive up pledges so it hits the other goals on the way. Do you guys really not see this?

 

[Grunker]

You just brofisted a Liberal-post, J_C. A fucking Liberal-post.

 

[Glyphwright]

You just brofisted a Liberal-post, J_C. A fucking Liberal-post.

He brofisted most of my posts, shitboy. Some of us here are capable of rational judgement and independent thought, others rely on memes and manboon-groupthink.

I'm going to go ahead and bring up some examples from Capcom and Ubisoft.

When Capcom said they would love to do a remake of Resident Evil 2 and they "wanted to gauge fan desire for it" by asking more people to buy Resident Evil 6 people got pissed. Why? Because they were just trying to ring more money out of people for something that has no bearing on whether they are going to do it or not.

Ubisoft has done very similiar acts with Beyond Good & Evil 2 by promising it for basically anything the devs have been involved in. First it's "if enough people buy the HD versions we'll consider it". Then it was if Rayman Origins got enough sales they would consider it. I think I'm forgetting a few more examples of when they've done this but the principle is the same.

Now what's happening here. Red Thread Games are saying they will start making The Longest Journey Home if their Kickstarter (for an entirely different game) hits 2 million. Something that will have no bearing since it's already been said that only some of the money is going to it thus meaning it's main reason for being there to drive up pledges so it hits the other goals on the way. Do you guys really not see this?

The difference being, a successful game studio saying "buy more games" and a small, borderline indie game studio asking for donations are two different things. RDT set a 2 million end-goal from the very start of their Kickstarter, they are merely using the news about possibly making TLJH as a further incentive. Good for them. I doubt they will actually reach 1.5 million, let alone 2 million in the six days before Kickstarter closes, but the intentions are clear.

 

[evdk]

The intentions are clear: they want to get money from the part of the fanbase dissatisfied with the direction the series took after TLJ by dangling the promise of a more traditional game in front of our noses. Well, I am not biting.

 

[Nope]

Point-and-click purists are a tiny minority of adventure game fans,

Far as I can see very few adventure games that eschewed point and click conventions outside of console abortions a la Quantic Dream, L.A. Noire and the Walking Dead have met with any financial success recently.
In my experience almost all adventure game fans tend to be purists, to the point that old classics still have their detractors solely due to having an action sequence or two in them.

 

[evdk]

Far as I can see very few adventure games that eschewed point and click conventions outside of console abortions a la Quantic Dream, L.A. Noire and the Walking Dead have met with any financial success recently.
In my experience almost all adventure game fans tend to be purists, to the point that old classics still have their detractors solely due to having an action sequence or two in them.

Don't mind Liberal, he has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Aeschylus]

Far as I can see very few adventure games that eschewed point and click conventions outside of console abortions a la Quantic Dream, L.A. Noire and the Walking Dead have met with any financial success recently.
In my experience almost all adventure game fans tend to be purists, to the point that old classics still have their detractors solely due to having an action sequence or two in them.

It's not so much because they have action sequences, as it is that the action sequences were inevitably terrible.

 

[abnaxus]

Interview at adventuregamers

Ingmar: The sequel was created at a time when no publisher would have invested a similar amount of money into an adventure game. How did you manage to make Dreamfall happen with such a big budget, and in what ways did you have to compromise?

Ragnar: We didn’t have to make any compromises at all. Every design and story choice in Dreamfall was made by the team, and we were given free reins to create the follow-up to The Longest Journey.
Funcom was very proud of the first game, and there was a lot of support for doing a sequel, although no one really knew how to market the idea of an adventure game at a time when, as you say, adventure gaming was considered a dead genre. That’s also why we targeted the Xbox. Being on a console helped make the game more attractive, both internally and to publishers, and while the Xbox version did impose severe restrictions on the PC version, I’m also quite happy and proud that we managed to make a console adventure game.

Ingmar: If you had to pick the elements of both The Longest Journey and Dreamfall that you are most proud of, what would those be?

Ragnar: The fact that both games have soul. They feel real, genuine, truthful and alive. The characters are people you can empathise with, the worlds appear lived-in, not just stage sets, and the themes resonate with players. Both games are very personal, almost intimately so, and that’s something that shines through, I think. We put a lot of ourselves into the games, and while they may be rough around the edges, and while not all surfaces are polished and shiny, they feel handcrafted – made by actual people, not just your typical factory-made, mass-produced ‘products’.
I’m proud of both games, despite their flaws, because they are stories that players care deeply about. This is why the games endure. They have soul.

He really likes the word "soul".

 

[Glyphwright]

We put a lot of ourselves into the games, and while they may be rough around the edges, and while not all surfaces are polished and shiny, they feel handcrafted – made by actual people, not just your typical factory-made, mass-produced ‘products’.

Well, he's right about that. Lord forbid someone actually takes pride in their work.

 

[hoverdog]

Every design and story choice in Dreamfall was made by the team

Oh fuck off Ragnar, you retard cocksucker.

 

[Blackthorne]

We put a lot of ourselves into the games, and while they may be rough around the edges, and while not all surfaces are polished and shiny, they feel handcrafted – made by actual people, not just your typical factory-made, mass-produced ‘products’.

Well, he's right about that. Lord forbid someone actually takes pride in their work.

There's a difference between being proud of your work and thinking it's the most enlightening and uplifting thing since "Siddhartha".


Bt

 

[Glyphwright]

We put a lot of ourselves into the games, and while they may be rough around the edges, and while not all surfaces are polished and shiny, they feel handcrafted – made by actual people, not just your typical factory-made, mass-produced ‘products’.

Well, he's right about that. Lord forbid someone actually takes pride in their work.

There's a difference between being proud of your work and thinking it's the most enlightening and uplifting thing since "Siddhartha".


Bt

Game developers are no less aware of the utter shit that's marketed as next-gen gaming blockbusters nowadays, than the whiners and moaners on the Codex. Ragnar's point is: "We genuinely care about the world and characters we created in TLJ/Dreamfall, this series is different from faceless mass-produced tripe, churned out by the corporate machine for the sake of profit". And it is.

 

[MaskedMan]

For the $50 DIGITAL SPECIAL EDITION tier (and up) we're adding ONE ALTERNATIVE OUTFIT for Zoë. This is in addition to her base outfit.
For the $75 DIGITAL JOURNEYMAN EDITION, we're adding A SECOND ALTERNATIVE OUTFIT, plus ONE ALTERNATIVE HAIRSTYLE
And finally, for the $150 DIGITAL DREAMER EDITION and up, we're giving you a THIRD ALTERNATIVE OUTFIT, A SECOND ALTERNATIVE HAIRSTYLE, plus CHARACTER ACCESSORIES. In total, for $150 and up, you will be able to choose between three alternative outfits, two alternative hairdos, and accessories.

but what do i get if i buy it at gamestop

 

[J_C]

A slap in the face for supporting that fucking retailer.

 

[PlanHex]

Character customisation
...
Since it's high up on your wish-list

Why the fuck would anyone place customization high on their wishlist?

Has there ever been a (non-sucky) adventure game with outfit/hairstyle customization?

 

[tuluse]

Exclusive outfits and haircuts, seriously?

:declining:

 

[Jaesun]

What's next? Romances.

Hopefully BSN will get wind of this project...

 

[abnaxus]

What's next? Romances.

April and Kian was always going to happen since April = Lady Alvane and Alvane is Kian's surname. IIRC.

 

[Ulminati]

Wow... Lots of butthurt in this thread. Don't mind me, I'll just be sitting here on the front row, eating popcorn.

 

[Dexter]

To be honest, after one of their latest Updates that I've just seen, I think I'm somewhat butthurt too:

If we reach $1,750,000, we will begin to prepare Dreamfall Chapters for porting to iOS and Android platforms. Primarily tablets, naturally, but we may also decide to support mobile phones, if we feel comfortable with how the game will work on (even) smaller screens.
...
Other platforms may still be of interest to us: Ouya, Wii U, the next Xbox and PlayStation 4 -- these are options and opportunities we will consider going forward, but for now we will focus on the computers and, if we reach $1,75 million, mobile platforms.

"Oh hai guyz, I know we made a big deal about wanting to make this PC game thing and thank you for giving us money, but now we're thinking about targeting every console in existence or possible future existence (it'll have no influence on game design, honest!) and if you give us some more of your money we'll make it for tablets, and *mobile phones* too (that won't either, promise!)."

For the $50 DIGITAL SPECIAL EDITION tier (and up) we're adding ONE ALTERNATIVE OUTFIT for Zoë. This is in addition to her base outfit.
For the $75 DIGITAL JOURNEYMAN EDITION, we're adding A SECOND ALTERNATIVE OUTFIT, plus ONE ALTERNATIVE HAIRSTYLE
And finally, for the $150 DIGITAL DREAMER EDITION and up, we're giving you a THIRD ALTERNATIVE OUTFIT, A SECOND ALTERNATIVE HAIRSTYLE, plus CHARACTER ACCESSORIES. In total, for $150 and up, you will be able to choose between three alternative outfits, two alternative hairdos, and accessories.
NOTE: Physical tiers receive the same customisation options. The $110 tier contains everything from the $50 and $75 tiers, and the $200 tier (and upwards) contains ALL outfits and hairstyles.

Oh, and our game has dress-up now, and here's some "Pre-Order DLC" type of stuff, suckers!

And then Ragnar posted this reply apparently full of "we didn't mean it that way, honest" and some other excuses, I especially love the part where after people gave them ~$1.3 million towards the overall games production they talk about the "cost" of a minor feature a lot of people likely don't give much of a shit about:

Spoiler

Guys, we didn't pull any content from the game to sell it as DLC. Don't assume the worst about us. We're really not particularly evil. We just want to make a fun game and give out some cool rewards.

After conversations on the team earlier this week, we decided to add a new feature allowing for players to change clothes during the game. This means that we also need to produce some new outfits and hairstyles. This is pretty expensive stuff, given that our characters are so detailed and high-res. So we decided to reward players who'd already pledged a bunch of money, and figured this might be an incentive for others to up their pledges a bit, and for new pledgers to jump in at a higher tier, allowing us to finance the new feature and content upgrade.

Regardless of how we'd chosen to do this -- and sure, there are other ways; we could have made it an add-on, and maybe we'd still be having this discussion -- it's a cost, for us and for you. It doesn't come for free.

And yes, I know it's "not about that". I know it's about giving everyone who's pledged an equal amount of game content. And yes, I get that some of you don't think maps or a short story collections or things like that are the same thing -- even though, as a lot of you have pointed out, those things change the game a LOT more than a couple of outfits and hairstyles. (The short stories in particular provide a ton of background for the playable characters and their journeys.)

I do get all of that, despite what you may think. I understand where you're coming from. I've worked with big publishers. I'm a gamer. I see this micro-payment and DLC trend everywhere, and it's not something I usually care to participate in.

But, to be honest, this never even popped into our heads when we made this design decision, and we are not going to change it at this point. Not only would it be unfair to those who have upped their pledges, and those who have given us positive feedback, but we're also looking into make this a fun gameplay feature, and allow EVERYONE a chance to switch clothes from time to time. Because that would be cool.

(And to be clear, that doesn't give those with cosmetic outfits any advantages. This would be about switching between clothing everyone has access to, strictly for gameplay reasons.)

Why didn't we make it part of a stretch goal? Because this is something we wanted to do, and if we'd made it part of a stretch goal, it would have been fundamentally dishonest. We would have made it anyway. We don't like to be dishonest with our pledgers.

If this means that some of you cancel your pledges, that's unfortunate, and we're sorry to see you go. Again, I understand where you're coming from when you argue passionately against it, but I can't say I really understand why you'd see the need to CANCEL your pledge. We get less money, you don't get a game or the exclusive Kickstarter goodies. Everyone loses.

But guys, really, we're not going to change this now. I'm sorry. I hope you understand that this doesn't change the game for anyone, it doesn't make us into Unnamed Big Evil Publisher, it doesn't mean the game will be littered with DLC and micro-payments, and it doesn't mean we don't care about your opinions. We simply disagree with some of you, and that's that. Disagreeing is fine. I like having people onboard who disagree with us -- it's healthy. If you have to go, then go, and no hard feelings, but I do think it'll be worth sticking around for, regardless, particularly if you want to keep voicing your opinions to us about this game and games in general.

Look, I have to start focusing on our last few days' worth of content now, so I really can't afford to spend time commenting on this issue anymore -- and it's not for a lack of respect or interest or concern or understanding, but simply a matter of my time and resources. There are only so many hours in a day, and we have tons of stuff that needs to happen before Sunday. I hope you all understand, and I hope you all come along for the ride. Maybe not in the Volkswagen van, but still along for the ride, somewhere behind us, or way out in front.

Ragnar

 

[Jaesun]

SimpsonsHAHAguy.jpg

I laugh at every single one of you people backing this.

 

[Cool name]

Has there ever been a (non-sucky) adventure game with outfit/hairstyle customization?

Culpa Innata.

If you are one of the many who do consider it to be 'non-shitty' at least.