Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[agentorange]

I currently have a stat penalty on one of my characters, a decrease in dex. I'm not sure where it came from or how to get rid of it. Is there a screen where I can such stuff?

Edit: I used a restorative linament and it fixed the stat. I'm still not clear on how got the penalty though.

 

[hoverdog]

I currently have a stat penalty on one of my characters, a decrease in dex. I'm not sure where it came from or how to get rid of it. Is there a screen where I can such stuff?

Edit: I used a restorative linament and it fixed the stat. I'm still not clear on how got the penalty though.

Critical aimed hits can result in a stat penalty. Torso - CON, Legs - DEX, Arms - STR.

 

[HoboForEternity]

I found it easier than AoD overall

it's true tho. now we know that we focus our character build for combat, and if you know what you're doing it won't be really hard. that said pure combat build in AoD is pretty easy, but the real challenge in AoD is making viable hybrid that can nets you as many content as possible while still able to fight something in a level of tower demons

 

[Mozg]

I think you can cure the stat penalty crits with special healing items you get a few times (I never actually used one, so I assume there must be plenty to get you through a game even with bad crit luck).

 

[Lurker King]

I found it easier than AoD overall

it's true. now we know that we focus our character build for combat, and if you know what you're doing it won't be really hard. that said pure combat build in AoD is pretty easy, but the real challenge in AoD is making viable hybrid that can nets you as many content as possible while still able to fight something in a level of tower demons

No, is not. AoD doesn’t have flanking and other strategic bonuses. AoD doesn’t have the same variety of enemies that require different tactics. You are talking about having team members, but they can also be a source of challenge since you may want to keep them alive. The challenging fights on solo are much more deadly and requires patience and planning, while in AoD it requires the right build. Saying that hybrid playtrough is the real challenge is somewhat misleading since it is just a matter of knowing which fights you can pick and in which order. DR is much more challenging. There is no comparison.

 

[Darth Roxor]

AoD doesn’t have the same variety of enemies that require different tactics.

nigga, you kray

 

[TigerKnee]

well, to be frank, this isn't really a dunjin crawler

but i will clarify this in the Future (tm)

True.

It actually feels very nu-Shadowrun in terms of how its structured.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Easy/hard fights vary greatly depending on build and party. Plants can be super deadly if you don't have ranged, for example, esp. due to their high damage melee swing.

In my solo runs with a pure melee character what I did was hit the plant so I had 2 AP left to back away. Can't remember very well right now, but IIRC they either don't have AoO or it is very low. Worked well enough for me atleast.

 

[Fenix]

Vault Dweller should put a little more effort in this detail in his colony ship game too. It is immersive.

It may be appropriate for fantasy game, but absolutely out of place for sci-fi setting.

 

[Lurker King]

AoD doesn’t have the same variety of enemies that require different tactics.

nigga, you kray

Queen

Vault Dweller should put a little more effort in this detail in his colony ship game too. It is immersive.

It may be appropriate for fantasy game, but absolutely out of place for sci-fi setting.

Being a fantasy setting has nothing to do with it. It's about personality and making special items fell, eh, special. VD already did this with AoD, but he could invest a lit bit more, explain how they received their names, etc.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Being a fantasy setting has nothing to do with it. It's about personality and making special items fell, eh, special. VD already did this with AoD, but he could invest a lit bit more, explain how they received their names, etc.

Well, there is a difference between a MAGICAL!!! item and a really great knife or a custom pistol. One is infused with magical energies during an arcane ritual, forged for a mysterious and long forgotten purpose by an equally mysterious and long forgotten sage. The other is a really well-made tool, a product of precision and machinework. If it has a name, it's because the maker thought it would fetch a better price.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Queen

aka bumrush a big ant in two turns before more generic ants that you've been whacking for the last hour+ arrive

everything else in the game is just about the same as aod - "here's a bunch of dudes, they have various waffen, have fun", unless you're currently going through scorpion valley or scolopendra park

 

[Lurker King]

Queen

aka bumrush a big ant in two turns before more generic ants that you've been whacking for the last hour+ arrive

everything else in the game is just about the same as aod - "here's a bunch of dudes, they have various waffen, have fun", unless you're currently going through scorpion valley or scolopendra park

I only had problems playing solo. Too many ants. I found a bottleneck and killed them one by one. Playing with a team, I killed it in the first time. Other fights are more challenging.

 

[zool]

Being a fantasy setting has nothing to do with it. It's about personality and making special items fell, eh, special. VD already did this with AoD, but he could invest a lit bit more, explain how they received their names, etc.

Well, there is a difference between a MAGICAL!!! item and a really great knife or a custom pistol. One is infused with magical energies during an arcane ritual, forged for a mysterious and long forgotten purpose by an equally mysterious and long forgotten sage. The other is a really well-made tool, a product of precision and machinework. If it has a name, it's because the maker thought it would fetch a better price.

Unique items don't have to be magical, it can just be "X's dagger. You notice the dagger is not only very well-crafted but has also received additional dents which you can only presume where made by X to further its lethality" - and the weapon gets a small bonus to CS or passive chance compared to similarly-crafted weapons.

Doesn't get more complicated than that.

 

[Elhoim]

For some reason, bombs started being useful again as damage dealers by late game

That was the update fixing them

 

[SniperHF]

it's true tho. now we know that we focus our character build for combat, and if you know what you're doing it won't be really hard. that said pure combat build in AoD is pretty easy, but the real challenge in AoD is making viable hybrid that can nets you as many content as possible while still able to fight something in a level of tower demons

But to add to the hybrid issue, it's not even so much that you'd take a pure talker or a pure fighter first time through. Or even the meta gaming challenge of going for the 1 true playthrough.

Most people I'd wager, and I certainly did, make a more mixed character to start the game their first playthrough. At no time in Dungeon Rats did I feel like I'd have to abandon my playthrough or reload a fight 20+ times to get an outcome I needed to keep going. A few times it got a little dicey with health resources early but that's it. It's way easier to earnestly make a character that doesn't work in AoD than DR.

And no I'm not talking about solo mode or the easier difficulty choices DR offers; or a talker character in AoD for that matter. The only comparable play styles are Standard Murderous Psychopath DR vs AoD. Even the issue of a pure combat character in AoD being relatively easy, well that's true but it's also easy to end up in situations where your build doesn't work if you don't have meta knowledge or bite off more than you can chew. DR is straight linear so you're always on a mostly even progression. It's not like AoD where you can just walk into the Miltiades fight right after the vignette.

 

[Fenix]

Being a fantasy setting has nothing to do with it.

A lot - fantasy is a heroical genre often, especially in games.
It isn't the case in sci-fi.

And I can imagine something like Mordino knife in it, and firearms in 19 or begining of 20 centure often goet names, but not today. Well, maybe there, if weapon is a rare thing...

 

[Zanzoken]

Anything else feels that CS stat is useless unless you have crafter AND use certain weapons.

100 CS (10 lvls of CS) do not give reliable crits, you see like 10-20% chance on usual mobs you fight.
You have to get 125 CS to see actual benefit, this means you need craft for +25 CS (1st) and 2nd use weapons that benefit from such craft (you cant put CS on bows or crossbows for example).

And in more effect of crits, lets say its not that spectacular. Omg, -1 perception to enemy, or 4 bleed tick. Keep in mind fast attacks give -15% chance to crit so you need high accuraccy (read add to Perception which asks for question if you raise Per and Dex and Str, how many points you put in Con, Cha and Int? And you need Int - unless you go full group and "level" Hieron - to raise CS skill).


I played several times, mostly solo and never did i felt "If only i had higher CS skill this fight would go easier". Though for dagger user its probably a must the way special works.

To me CS is the only real weakness in Iron Tower's otherwise excellent character system. I think it is useful with the right build but pales in comparison to the other "support skills" crafting and alchemy.

I'd be interested to hear the devs' perspective but I think realistically you can remove CS entirely and nothing much changes.

 

[Lurker King]

But to add to the hybrid issue, it's not even so much that you'd take a pure talker or a pure fighter first time through. Or even the meta gaming challenge of going for the 1 true playthrough.

Most people I'd wager, and I certainly did, make a more mixed character to start the game their first playthrough. At no time in Dungeon Rats did I feel like I'd have to abandon my playthrough or reload a fight 20+ times to get an outcome I needed to keep going. A few times it got a little dicey with health resources early but that's it. It's way easier to earnestly make a character that doesn't work in AoD than DR.

And no I'm not talking about solo mode or the easier difficulty choices DR offers; or a talker character in AoD for that matter. The only comparable play styles are Standard Murderous Psychopath DR vs AoD. Even the issue of a pure combat character in AoD being relatively easy, well that's true but it's also easy to end up in situations where your build doesn't work if you don't have meta knowledge or bite off more than you can chew. DR is straight linear so you're always on a mostly even progression. It's not like AoD where you can just walk into the Miltiades fight right after the vignette.

You can make more mistakes in AoD in your first playtrough because there are more choices to make and is easier to spread your SPs too thin. In DR you can also make these mistakes, but only in combat oriented skills and stats – the exception being charisma. IN THAT SENSE, AoD IS HARDER THAN DR. But this is misleading because AoD worked for most players as a training and preparation for DR. Even with all the changes, there are fewer surprises because you are already acquainted with the combat system. That it is why it seems easier for you. In my opinion, the only proper comparison is between Murderous Psychopath DR (solo or not) vs AoD pure combat playtrough because DR is a pure combat game. The result is obvious: DR is more challenging because you can die with a perfect build due to the changes (flanking and other bonuses), more thought-out fights and different types of enemies. It encourages thinking. In AoD, you are set for life if you have 10 points in block or dodge. In DR you either have a party (you have to improve different builds, now how to use them in different combat scenarios, etc) or play solo, which is even harder. The fact that the standard mode in AoD (solo) provides you with two extra stat points, but it is still chalenging, shows how harder DR is.

 

[Atchodas]

DR combat is obviously more challenging but game as a whole is easier than AoD or should i say less complicated than AoD especially untill you get trough Teron at least few times , also DR has no

Spoiler

 

[Lurker King]

Well, there is a difference between a MAGICAL!!! item and a really great knife or a custom pistol. One is infused with magical energies during an arcane ritual, forged for a mysterious and long forgotten purpose by an equally mysterious and long forgotten sage. The other is a really well-made tool, a product of precision and machinework. If it has a name, it's because the maker thought it would fetch a better price.

Being magical has nothing to do with it. You can have a weapon that was passed from one generation to the next and it’s a one of its kind due to the specific changes implemented by a dude. In fact, presenting a believable story doesn’t matter, Vince. The point of giving them a story is to make them more interesting and rewarding. Otherwise, you can just label then dagger 1, dagger 2, dagger 3, etc. because real people don’t name their weapons. In a sense, items are like the rest of the game world. If you add a detail in it (piece of lore, its personal history, etc.), you make them more interesting. I think you are being too dismissive of this just out of spite for Bioware retardeness. Just because BG did X, it doesn't mean that you have to do the opposite just to prove that you are different from them.

Unique items don't have to be magical, it can just be "X's dagger. You notice the dagger is not only very well-crafted but has also received additional dents which you can only presume where made by X to further its lethality" - and the weapon gets a small bonus to CS or passive chance compared to similarly-crafted weapons.

Doesn't get more complicated than that.

This.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Being magical has nothing to do with it. You can have a weapon that was passed from one generation to the next and it’s a one of its kind due to the specific changes implemented by a dude. In fact, presenting a believable story doesn’t matter, Vince.

Well, believable and 'one of a kind due to special changes' don't really go hand in hand.

The point of giving them a story is to make them more interesting and rewarding. Otherwise, you can just label then dagger 1, dagger 2, dagger 3, etc. because real people don’t name their weapons.

People don't name their weapons but smiths usually name their models, going with either with the established designs (dixon fighter, arkansas toothpick, bowie, kukri, etc) or fancy names like diamondback.

In a sense, items are like the rest of the game world. If you add a detail in it (piece of lore, its personal history, etc.), you make them more interesting. I think you are being too dismissive of this just out of spite for Bioware retardeness. Just because BG did X, it doesn't mean that you have to do the opposite just to prove that you are different from them.

It's not that. If I ever get a chance to work on a game with magical weapons, I'd gladly write a story for each weapon, explaining how it came into the world, but with the normal weapons, no matter how well forged, the options are limited.

Here is the one of the top knife makers, his knives go for 3k and there is a years long waiting list:

His knives are special (I don't own one for the record but I've seen them) not because there is a special little extra, but because the craftsmanship and precision are top notch. The differences between a $100-knife and a $3000-knife are the skills of the maker (40% of the price), the process (completely hand-forged vs stock removal, for example; clay tempering, etc - there's a reason why cheap blades have a fake hamon line; that's another 40%), material and finish (about 20%). Time spent would go into the process. If it takes you two weeks to make a knife, you won't sell it for a 100 bucks. So as you can see, there's very little 'magic' there and very little room for 'he added some notches' unless the story is about how he ruined a good knife.

 

[Lurker King]

Being magical has nothing to do with it. You can have a weapon that was passed from one generation to the next and it’s a one of its kind due to the specific changes implemented by a dude. In fact, presenting a believable story doesn’t matter, Vince.

Well, believable and 'one of a kind due to special changes' don't really go hand in hand.

Nothing is believable in cRPGs by that standard. Being able to carry a ridiculous load of stuff in your invisible backpack is not believable. Not having the need to eat, sleep or take a piss is not believable. Bing able to kill teams of enemies is not believable. Developers assume many unbelievable things just because they like them. If players wanted pure realism about weapons, they would read history books about weapons or research about them, instead of playing cRPGs.

People don't name their weapons but smiths usually name their models, going with either with the established designs (dixon fighter, arkansas toothpick, bowie, kukri, etc) or fancy names like diamondback.

You will find special weapons in AoD such as the dagger you obtain after saving a guy from three toughs in Maadoran. This weapon has a story, it’s a family gift, and a name. This is more interesting because it adds personality, instead of being just another quality weapon with X% of THC. My point is that YOU COULD ELABORATE A BIT MORE WHAT YOU ALREADY DID without sacrificing realism. Providing top quality weapons is good. Providing top quality weapons with a context is even better.

 

[Atchodas]

I'm missing the point in this discussion ,
AoD had these "special" weapons with history n everything that ,
DR does not have it because of the same reasons it has no other cool stuff that AoD had : short development time , low price , filler game with reused assets and so on .

 

[Cadmus]

The problem is that DR is so good nobody considers it a filler cash grab lol.