Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[Stakhanov]

Finished the solo murderous run, and goddamn it was satisfying. Some fights were really rough --going combat stats + alchemy over int so I couldn't craft stuff was probably sub-optimal-- but maxed alchemy was a godsend with bomb and liquid fire spam. When I got sick of Democritos (pulverising my atoms into the void) hatefucking me with his hammer, the Enforcer and his goddamn gladius, or the Emprah and his army of mooks with ranged weaponry, my coked-up spearman gave them the Tony Montana treatment. YOU WANNA PLAY ROUGH?


GG, 10/10, will rage again for the ironman playthrough.

 

[Darth Roxor]

going combat stats + alchemy over int so I couldn't craft stuff was probably sub-optimal

dafuk were you doing with your skill points

my solo int 4 guy had 10 axe, 9 doge, 10 craftung, 9 alchemy at the end

 

[Emmanuel2]

Why can't hitting plants just be 100% THC?

 

[Stakhanov]

dafuk were you doing with your skill points

my solo int 4 guy had 10 axe, 9 doge, 10 craftung, 9 alchemy at the end

I fucked up, in short. I didn't think it would be possible going a low-int build to get both maxed or near max, so I focused on getting 10 alchemy, 10 spear, 9 dodge, picked up 6 in critical strike along the way for no good reason, 4 crafting with the spare points I had at the end. I might've skipped a few optional fights as well, not sure, I don't know if shifting those points would've got me up to 10. The CS was possibly a hangover from AoD, I wanted to make aimed attacks more effective, but it's somewhat useless in Dungeon Rats most of the time (except for dagger users I'd assume).

 

[Whisper]

Why did you invest into CS if you are not dagger user?

 

[Emmanuel2]

Dagger checks out for Solo/Murderous/Ironman.

Had Dagger at rank 9 before doing the ending fights.

Spoiler

 

[TigerKnee]

Why did you invest into CS if you are not dagger user?

Is it our fault that CS is basically a trap skill for anything other than daggers? It worked pretty well back in AoD

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why did you invest into CS if you are not dagger user?

Is it our fault that CS is basically a trap skill for anything other than daggers? It worked pretty well back in AoD

If it worked well in AoD, it will work well in DR because nothing has changed.

In general, CS works best for daggers because daggers rely on aimed strikes and special attacks, but it works pretty damn good for other weapons too.

 

[Whisper]

but it works pretty damn good for other weapons too.

No.

Reasons:

1. It maybe so-so for melee weapons IF you have crafter (10).
But for bows/crossbows it just sucks. You get 100 cs max (compared to 125 for melee), -25% cs do matter.

2. End game enemies have high def stats, you want to use fast-attacks most of time. They decrease cs by -15%.

3. You get some crits vs few critters (scolopendra for example have low CS defence) but vs most of human enemies at end game, your 100 cs will let you crit 10-20% chance with aimed attacks. Since crits are not that powerful, its not worth investment. You better raise alchemy or crafting, much more profit than CS. If you have those covered - insert in synergy weapon skill.


As person who made solo runs with all types of weapons, dont invest in CS, its a trap skill. Only if dagger and only 7-8 (5-6 will also work). There is reason ironman (= knows game) dagger user have 4 in cs.

 

[Whisper]

I explain: certain prisoner is equiped in heavy armor and have high Con. For example, he has 100 CS defence. If you have lower than 100 CS attack dont even expect crits since formula for crit is (Crit defence - Crit skill). You can have 50 CS or 70 CS it will be no difference for that enemy, you wont crit either way.

So for that enemy getting CS to 8 for your bow user was just waste of points, it adds _nothing_ in chance to crit. Compared to CS 1. So you'd better increase in throwing/crossbow to make attacks more reliable than to waste points on skill that adds nothing for that fight with that enemy. Of cause some low hp light armored scrubs will be crit sometimes, but this means CS works only for some enemies, while investing in synergy (% to hit) works for all enemies. Choose wisely.

 

[MrMarbles]

Daggers and hammers do quite well too, based on what's been posted.

Yeah, the impression is spears>hammers>daggers

This might be intentional, and it might have been mentioned, but still have to ask: are you supposed to hit yourself with throwing weapons? It happens seldom, maybe once per long fight, but it is a consistent occurrence and a critical event on psycho solo. The log simply states it as MC hitting MC. A reason I suspected it may be a bug is that the weapon switches from belt to main each time it happens.

The main problem with throwing in the early game on solo/psycho isn't damage (though it is low), but ammo. I've reached the 8 ant gang twice, but when a javelin costs a whopping 0.5 wood a pop you simply run out of things to throw. That's after supplementing with bows during every easier fight.

 

[Emmanuel2]

Is a Solo/Murderous/Ironman possible with a 100 Dodge rating only? Because I'm pretty sure things will start fucking you over when ranged enemies are there even with ~30-40 vs Ranged.

 

[Trashos]

When I got sick of Democritos (pulverising my atoms into the void) hatefucking me with his hammer, the Enforcer and his goddamn gladius, or the Emprah and his army of mooks with ranged weaponry, my coked-up spearman gave them the Tony Montana treatment. YOU WANNA PLAY ROUGH?

"Democritos"?!
So, another ITS game featuring greek names. Either VD is consulting with his Greek ex-colleague (the one Miltiades was based upon) or someone majored in Hellenic Studies.

 

[Tigranes]

It's... the same setting as AOD. Not to mention greco-roman names are as pretty common.

I do look forward to a Demosthenes at some point

 

[Black Angel]

No.

Reasons:

1. It maybe so-so for melee weapons IF you have crafter (10).
But for bows/crossbows it just sucks. You get 100 cs max (compared to 125 for melee), -25% cs do matter.

2. End game enemies have high def stats, you want to use fast-attacks most of time. They decrease cs by -15%.

3. You get some crits vs few critters (scolopendra for example have low CS defence) but vs most of human enemies at end game, your 100 cs will let you crit 10-20% chance with aimed attacks. Since crits are not that powerful, its not worth investment. You better raise alchemy or crafting, much more profit than CS. If you have those covered - insert in synergy weapon skill.


As person who made solo runs with all types of weapons, dont invest in CS, its a trap skill. Only if dagger and only 7-8 (5-6 will also work). There is reason ironman (= knows game) dagger user have 4 in cs.

I explain: certain prisoner is equiped in heavy armor and have high Con. For example, he has 100 CS defence. If you have lower than 100 CS attack dont even expect crits since formula for crit is (Crit defence - Crit skill). You can have 50 CS or 70 CS it will be no difference for that enemy, you wont crit either way.

So for that enemy getting CS to 8 for your bow user was just waste of points, it adds _nothing_ in chance to crit. Compared to CS 1. So you'd better increase in throwing/crossbow to make attacks more reliable than to waste points on skill that adds nothing for that fight with that enemy. Of cause some low hp light armored scrubs will be crit sometimes, but this means CS works only for some enemies, while investing in synergy (% to hit) works for all enemies. Choose wisely.

Two words, my friend = Arterial Strikes. Though.... I can't remember if you can perform arterial strikes against Constructs, but from what little run I'm doing with a 9 CHA Throwing Guy with no defense at all and, instead, invested in CS, I still manage to devastate opponents left and right, while letting Marcus tanks all the damage.

 

[Whisper]

You are devastating because of no-DR throwing proc. And probably berserk or good quality throwing weapons from crafting.
Since you get like 92% chance to bypass armor, critical does almost nothing for you since it main function is to bypass armor (and do extra tiny damage).
Oh and arterial strikes with throwing is vaste of AP once you get to first forge, you better of fast attacking. You do more damage per round this way, not to mention more reliable damage.

TL&DR version:

Try psycho solo run with throwing guy, you will understand where better to spend SP: in CS or somewhere else.

 

[Goral]

Another positive review, this time on Vault 13 site: http://trzynasty-schron.net/dzial,grykomputerowe_dungeon_rats.htm

The reviewer gave 8.5/10 rating and highly recommends it unless you're a graphic whore.

 

[Emmanuel2]

You are devastating because of no-DR throwing proc. And probably berserk or good quality throwing weapons from crafting.
Since you get like 92% chance to bypass armor, critical does almost nothing for you since it main function is to bypass armor (and do extra tiny damage).
Oh and arterial strikes with throwing is vaste of AP once you get to first forge, you better of fast attacking. You do more damage per round this way, not to mention more reliable damage.

TL&DR version:

Try psycho solo run with throwing guy, you will understand where better to spend SP: in CS or somewhere else.

I'm always appalled at how people win the game without investing max/near-max into either defense skill, then I remember that solo isn't the only game mode and I still haven't tried playing with a team.

I told myself not to agree with "Solo MP is the one and only definitive™ experience" but yeah, psycho solo really teaches you alot about the game.

CS is trash for everything except Daggers (but even then one shouldn't fully invest in it) especially with the way how CS works and how it synergizes with the other passives.

 

[MrMarbles]

As person who made solo runs with all types of weapons

If you've completed throwing solo/psycho/ironman, I'd appreciate some pointers.

 

[Whisper]

As person who made solo runs with all types of weapons

If you've completed throwing solo/psycho/ironman, I'd appreciate some pointers.

I didnt play ironman, though it is possible. I finished solo psycho with thrower though.

About pointers, conserve throwing shots, use bow for some fights, for some fight with ants use hammer.

Stats: 10 str, 10 dex, 10 per, 4 con, 4 int, 2 cha. Dodge 6, throwing 4. Start with throwing as 1st weapon, you need shematics for javelin.


Avoid (!) CS as solo throwing build. Its trash.

Get some alchemy and crafting instead (preferably 8 alchemy and 6 and closer to end-game 8 crafting).

 

[MrMarbles]

As person who made solo runs with all types of weapons

If you've completed throwing solo/psycho/ironman, I'd appreciate some pointers.

I didnt play ironman, though it is possible. I finished solo psycho with thrower though.

About pointers, conserve throwing shots, use bow for some fights, for some fight with ants use hammer.

Stats: 10 str, 10 dex, 10 per, 4 con, 4 int, 2 cha. Dodge 6, throwing 4. Start with throwing as 1st weapon, you need shematics for javelin.


Avoid (!) CS as solo throwing build. Its trash.

Get some alchemy and crafting instead (preferably 8 alchemy and 6 and closer to end-game 8 crafting).

Mucho appreciated. This matches what I've done so far, except stats. I went for 9/10/8/7/4/2, 4 CON makes you too exposed to a freak hit or two.

 

[Whisper]

The more damage you do per turn, the less damage you get in next round. 1 less str means some enemy with 1-5 hp will hit you next turn, he wouldnt otherwise.

Also berserk means your +10% dmg (1 str) is increased even further.

 

[MrMarbles]

Yeah, but unlucky rolls are a bigger problem in ironman. Do you know any more about the constant self-wounding when using throwing? It's getting to be pretty damn annoying.

 

[Whisper]

Yeah, but unlucky rolls are a bigger problem in ironman. Do you know any more about the constant self-wounding when using throwing? It's getting to be pretty damn annoying.

I dont think ironman ranged build is viable atm. You not really need to take care of wounds, but also of ammo. You will have to use ammo much more, you cant risk going melee to conserve it.

Self-wounding exists, i got in some fights (with 3 big ants, for example).

 

[ColCol]

I had a break and came back and......I honestly don't know how to beat the emperor. I have 4 party members with ten dodge (they still get hit very frequently). I used nets, drugs, etc. Nothing helps. This fight is fucking brutal.