Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[Fenix]

Should be changed really, seems retarded.

I think it at least should affect it for less turns - maybe only on same turn you throw it.

 

[Saduj]

Anyone play through the game with Spear/Block? I know that Spear/Dodge is better but I was thinking about it because if you don't recruit Yngvar, it is hard to justify having a blocker in your party who is not your main character. Seems like the path that would make you play longest with a crude weapon and then to add insult to injury, when you find a decent replacement you can't get back to your forge to craft an upgraded version without first finishing one of the tougher fights in the game (IMO). Eventually you get a great weapon. Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on whether the crappy early game is worth the effort.

 

[Fenix]

Just try PC and Marcus man, it's fucking cruel, especially PC-crossbower.

 

[Geckabor]

Alright so I decided to finally give this game a go and I'm not too far yet, but having quite a lot of fun for now! There's something really satisfying in fast attacking people with little to no armor with a sword and getting bleed effects aswell. There's one encounter I'm having problems with (it might be an optional one). There's these 3 scorpions (one stronger than the other 2) and I can manage to kill one but afterwards I just get demolished. Are there any general tips against them? Some additional info: I'm running a sword/dodge user and using Marcus(hammer/dodge) and some old guy who uses a crossbow and critical strike. Playing on murderous psychopath.

 

[Fenix]

With scorps - you need run to bottleneck, fight them one by one, use Wait, then hit legs first turn - to get better chance to hit, then arterial or arms, something like that.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Alright so I decided to finally give this game a go and I'm not too far yet, but having quite a lot of fun for now! There's something really satisfying in fast attacking people with little to no armor with a sword and getting bleed effects aswell. There's one encounter I'm having problems with (it might be an optional one). There's these 3 scorpions (one stronger than the other 2) and I can manage to kill one but afterwards I just get demolished. Are there any general tips against them? Some additional info: I'm running a sword/dodge user and using Marcus(hammer/dodge) and some old guy who uses a crossbow and critical strike. Playing on murderous psychopath.

Always have enough antidote. Never just eat the poison dmg, use antidote to prevent it entirely. In this game your HP are a FINITE resource. Healing supplies are limited. If you don't want to discover mid game that you have to start over because you can no longer heal up your party avoid as much damage as you can. That said
1) you can come back later when you're more powerful and better equipped or
2) trigger combat, immediately retreat over the bridge and then to the side where they have to come at you 1 at a time, a small one will always be quickest in pursuit, so if you have ranged characters you can have Marcus tank the small one while you kill the elder scorpion with ranged weapons, put all points in Marcus dodge (up to 10) before you start putting points elsewhere

 

[Geckabor]

Thanks for the help! The tips worked and I beat them. I might have to restart anyway since I didn't skill any crafting skills (just want to try a playthrough without them) but I gave my character 10 intelligence, so using those extra skill points for some alchemy/crafting seems to be the smartest choice. For some reason I didn't really mind restarting in AoD aswell just to try some things slightly differently.

EDIT: Alright so I reached my limit at the third battle against Roxana. Zero rations, my character is at 1 HP and yeah... I'm a goner. So, I think I'm going to try to skill alchemy in my new playthrough instead of having an unnecessarily high swords skill, and my DEX was the lowest of all my companions aswell, so I might as well drop the 5 CON I had to 4 and take an extra point in DEX instead. Let's hope it goes better this time.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Thanks for the help! The tips worked and I beat them. I might have to restart anyway since I didn't skill any crafting skills (just want to try a playthrough without them) but I gave my character 10 intelligence, so using those extra skill points for some alchemy/crafting seems to be the smartest choice. For some reason I didn't really mind restarting in AoD aswell just to try some things slightly differently.

EDIT: Alright so I reached my limit at the third battle against Roxana. Zero rations, my character is at 1 HP and yeah... I'm a goner. So, I think I'm going to try to skill alchemy in my new playthrough instead of having an unnecessarily high swords skill, and my DEX was the lowest of all my companions aswell, so I might as well drop the 5 CON I had to 4 and take an extra point in DEX instead. Let's hope it goes better this time.

Wouldn't dump CON so much unless you're a ranged CHAR, it affect too many things in combat (HP, DOT from bleeding and poison and even defense to a somewhat lesser degree) and DR is all about combat, you'd be too squishy. 10 INT seems pretty wasted to me on a non-solo character, there are some good choices in companions for alchemy/crafting bots (you don't have to use them alll the time, just when you need something made).

If you're having some trouble with ranged characters consider equipping a shield as even dodge characters benefit from vsRanged defense they provide (though you'll have to live with some THC loss usually).

Alchemy is a great choice, as far as I'm concerned it's by far the best skill when it comes to DR. Gives great value for every level (as early as 2 which allows you to create basic healing potions) and gives you an answer for everything the game throws at you. Crafting is still very good (especially because sharpening stones are aplenty) but when every mook and his brother wields a powerful crafted weapon and wears an armor to match it's not nearly the game changer it was in AoD i feel.

Also, always remember to flank and avoid being flanked. It can provide siginificant THC bonuses, with a high DEX character if your attack rating is too low sometimes it pays off to circle around enemy for a nice backstab.

 

[Fenix]

If you're having some trouble with ranged characters consider equipping a shield as even dodge characters benefit from vsRanged defense they provide (though you'll have to live with some THC loss usually).

I think it was patched out?
Not sure, something in last patches.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

I think it was patched out?
Not sure, something in last patches.

You're right, I just checked and no extra ranged defense in the defense rating during combat. Figures there'd be some changes, didn't played the game in quite a while.

Can't say I disagree, it did feel somewhat exploity, especially with dodge being already so strong (at the beginning atleast).

 

[mushaden]

[crystal caves] It's focking gay that you can't end the combat with the three plants and the sclopendoptera if you kill the bug and then walk past the range of the plants. I know you have to clear a path for your posse but still, at least let me heal scum or something. I understand that this would probably be difficult to implement with the way the skill points are rewarded at the end of a fight, I'm just frustrated, but not beaten!

 

[ZagorTeNej]

[crystal caves] It's focking gay that you can't end the combat with the three plants and the sclopendoptera if you kill the bug and then walk past the range of the plants. I know you have to clear a path for your posse but still, at least let me heal scum or something. I understand that this would probably be difficult to implement with the way the skill points are rewarded at the end of a fight, I'm just frustrated, but not beaten!

Agree but plants aren't that tough though usually. You just use hit and run on them, they have no attacks of opportunity and their melee attack is far more powerful than ranged. Maybe if you have low CON and ran out of antidotes.

 

[Geckabor]

Using berserk potions is also really effective against plants, since the loss of accuracy doesn't really matter against them.

 

[Old One]

I find the idea of berserking against plants amusing.

"RRAWWR! I HATE PLANTS! CRUSH! DIE!"

 

[mushaden]

Hard for a low CON solo dodger, but I managed it. This is certainly a fun game, almost feels longer than AoD

 

[aweigh]

launching DR for 1st time going in 100% blind

 

[Tigranes]

I envy you my friend

 

[aweigh]

How did I fucking wait sooo long to play this?!

Yes, I've died already. I'm teetering between dropping DR in order to play AoD for the first time (I've never played it), but by no means does this mean I'm not liking DR; simply the matter of knowing that if I am loving DR this way, AoD will be 10x better.

PRE-Emptive EDIT: And here is why I never bothered playing AoD:

- I simply wasn't that interested in a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Game cum RPG hybrid filled with text
- I (am still to this day) stupefied that there is no walking and instead teleporting from script trigger to the next trigger
- And lastly, and yes, hate me, I can take it: no party members. I simply could not believe it would be worth my time to play a single-char TB game.

I thought it would be boring as fuck, and for me combat is the single most important part of the RPG template as it is what will keep bring me back.

Happy to eat my words now after playing DR and seeing the depth in the combat system. AoD can absolutely coast by without party members on that TB system.

(But I still dislike not having some form of companions in my TB games, or any RPG games for that matter, and I find it humorous VD gave in to consumer demand and made Colony Ship a party-based RPG simply because of the non-stop raging butt-hurt over AoD's one-man-army/diplomat).

Also I kind of disliked VD from the fallout from the Codex Rebellion, since months of his Dictatorship and censorship had ingrained itself into my brain... now, though, now? Now I wish we had a strong ubermensch like VD to come and tell us what to do and what to say and what he can't do and what we can't say, just like the good ole days.

He would never have allowed GD/Politics to become the utter cesspool of disgust that it is now, so now in my older age I can appreciate where VD was coming from in wanting to impose moral order on the Codex, so, time to finally play AoD.

 

[Black Angel]

aweigh If you like Fallout 1 in terms of its sheer focus, scope, and reactivity, you will surely loves AoD. What AoD has is that, and pumped to eleven. I found myself replaying AoD countless times in such a short time span because of how tight it is in terms of focus and scope, and seeing different outcomes because of the reactivity is also really nice. Teleporting might've turn you off and you might not even like it after playing, but it's what helps the game to have tremendous amount of replayability, on top of no trash mobs and random encounters.

Also, despite the lack of companions, the game has multiple instance where you will have allied NPCs helping you, and big fights are quite a chunk of the game.

 

[aweigh]

dude, believe you me, i am fucking in this shit. This is like my new Vietnam. Fights are EXACTLY the level of challenge I always love/appreciate, and I gotta say, without even having half VD's cock dangling on mah lips, that the encounter design is top-notch! I expect/assume it will be much better in AoD given it's lessened focus on stuff like manhandling rats. Who live in dungeons.

I will say tho: game would've actually been legit PERFECT if it had been first-person view... obviously with Gold Box-style perspective shift to strategy-lite battle map, like in those games (although just to be hipsterish dark heart of uurkuul did the gold box style of Final Fantasy Tactics combat much better)

. I just think dungeons uniquely benefit the most by a very large and quantifiable margin of parameters in having a first-person view/approach. Nothing makes a dungeon feel more like a true labyrinth/maze than that perspective.

Overhead view crawlers/blobbers like Lab. of Touhou do excellent things in terms of their mechanics and how polished their hot takes on the sub-genre's conventions; but I couldn't get into Touhou crawlers simply because overhead perspective of the dungeons kills the excitement, the atmosphere, everything.

/rant

Rats is fucking ace though. Been having this TB hard-core battle fag ITCH for a WHILE now; since I played KNIGHTS OF THE CHALICE! Nothing approaching the sheer joy of TB combat of KotC had come around til this thing.

 

[Vault Dweller]

- I (am still to this day) stupefied that there is no walking and instead teleporting from script trigger to the next trigger

There's plenty of walking. There's *some* teleporting like returning your character to quest givers after completing quests, which isn't a big deal, but as you know people like to exaggerate.

Happy to eat my words now after playing DR and seeing the depth in the combat system. AoD can absolutely coast by without party members on that TB system.

Glad you like it.

(But I still dislike not having some form of companions in my TB games, or any RPG games for that matter, and I find it humorous VD gave in to consumer demand and made Colony Ship a party-based RPG simply because of the non-stop raging butt-hurt over AoD's one-man-army/diplomat).

We planned it this way long before AoD was released. Our original plan was to develop two different settings with different systems. Fantasy vs sci-fi, single-character vs party-based, focus on melee vs ranged, skill-points vs increase by use, focus on exploration vs working your way up in a faction, feats vs skills' passives, etc.

 

[Jrpgfan]

Another convert to the church of AoD/DR. A schizophrenic one, but welcome regardless(we do not discriminate).

 

[epeli]

We planned it this way long before AoD was released. Our original plan was to develop two different settings with different systems. Fantasy vs sci-fi, single-character vs party-based, focus on melee vs ranged, skill-points vs increase by use, focus on exploration vs working your way up in a faction, feats vs skills' passives, etc.

That was the plan all along? That is really interesting to know. You're making yourself one of the most well-rounded RPG designers in the industry by going for such polar opposites right from the start! If I recall correctly, you've already talked a bit about the setting of a tentative game project after The New World. Do you already have ideas what you'd like to do with game mechanics there?

 

[Vault Dweller]

We planned it this way long before AoD was released. Our original plan was to develop two different settings with different systems. Fantasy vs sci-fi, single-character vs party-based, focus on melee vs ranged, skill-points vs increase by use, focus on exploration vs working your way up in a faction, feats vs skills' passives, etc.

That was the plan all along? That is really interesting to know. You're making yourself one of the most well-rounded RPG designers in the industry by going for such polar opposites right from the start! If I recall correctly, you've already talked a bit about the setting of a tentative game project after The New World. Do you already have ideas what you'd like to do with game mechanics there?

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,7208.0.html

I love the 19th century's Gothic novels like The Manuscript Found in Saragossa or Melmoth the Wanderer. Love the idea of proper magic, witches being dangerous, Lucifer as active player, corrupting souls and commanding agents, the Christian faith being a shield against darkness, which is everywhere, the Spanish Inquisition fighting the good fight, cursed places abandoned for a reason, forbidden knowledge, supernatural creatures, that sort of things. Needless to say it would make a great setting, but how do we get there?

I start with the main character, a monk, perhaps, armed with faith and potent prayers fueled by that faith but full of doubts that can be exploited. Basically, a character development fork: a man of God bringing light into darkness or an occultist who abandoned God's light, trading it for forbidden knowledge. Both character types would communicate with powerful demons - dukes of Hell and such, but in different ways. As you can see, now we're defining the setting, both mechanics and "lore":

- to start with, the demons and most "magic-users" can't be killed, they are far too powerful; you can only bargain, protect yourself, play them against each other, maybe banish from your presence to piss them off even more; thus the focus isn't on demon slaying but surviving in a dangerous world most people are unaware of.
- you use combat (or speech/stealth) against the human minions or human enemies standing in your way, like the Inquisition if you turn to the Dark Side.
- such a setting would be perfect for relics, both Holy and Unholy.
- skills like languages (reading ancient books, communicating with demons, etc) and rituals (from exorcism to summoning), derived stats like Faith and Sanity, etc.
- magic would play a large role: prayers, words in God's own language, signs, magic circles & pentagrams, rituals, spells and incantations. You'd acquire them from archives, NPCs, rituals, etc. Too much "hands-on" Occult knowledge would weaken your Faith and thus the power of your prayers and Holy relics, just like too much Faith would weaken your dark rituals and incantations (i.e. it will be hard to play a hybrid).

Now that we have some gameplay basics, it's time to figure out how such a tale would start and end as these two story points would define the rest. The ending would give us both the direction and options on how to get there. The start of the game would set up the tone and introduce the first choice. Etc.
...

Such a game would be perfect for a class-based system, word-based magic (like runes but with words, you learn new words rather than spells and string them together), gain new abilities via rituals rather than level ups, kinda like Bloodlines where you discover that there is a whole different world (of darkness), flintlocks and melee, single-character with summoned allies (animated suits of armor, raised dead, lesser demons, etc).

 

[Darth Roxor]

I love the 19th century's Gothic novels like The Manuscript Found in Saragossa