KickStarter Ealdorlight - low fantasy TB procedural RPG with realistic damages currently on Kickstarter

[Drowed]

Looks interesting. As always, it's a pity that 20 USD is about 3.4 times the same value in my third world country, so it's expensive to back. But I'll try to buy the game if it ever gets released.

 

[Aenra]

third world country .. expensive

It's called Ethereum. No, am not joking.

 

[Darkzone]

Oh, sure, I've seen plenty of flow charts and workflow diagrams, although those typically are quite different in that they have an entry point (which these don't) and an exit point (which only Ealdorlight has).

I will not go deep into the mathematical definitions of finite state machines and different petri nets. But perhaps i can shine some light on this:
-State machines have a finite sets of states (finite but not empty) from which one element is a start state and one finite set of end states (can be empty), that is in the set of all state sets. Transducers can have a finite set (not empty) of starting states.
If there seems to be no start state node then perhaps someone has not made it clear and also the start state can be connected to itself and or (logical OR) there can be a path or input function that leads back to the start set or state.
- There are several definitions of Workflow nets. One definiton requires a starting place with one outgoing arc and and final place with one incoming arc all other places have at least one incoming and one outgoing arc.
And one definition requires that just in a initial state a place is marked by one m(p)=1 and other places are marked by m(p) = 0. Other definitions are to math heavy for such a thread.
You probably know just the workflows from BPMN and EPCs witch follow the first definitons.

Linear flow charts are not uncommon in game design. What I've not seen before is something that depicts a closed and mutually interactive system like this that's designed to show the gameplay loop and power-up feedback process -- I guess you'd say a state machine diagram applied to game design. I assume they exist, but it just seemed weird that I had never seen one before, despite being a pretty attentive observer of game development for many years, and then I suddenly see two of them in Kickstarter projects for RPGs in which you become a king. It's like the idea suddenly has its moment in history or whatever.

As an supreme autist i make sometimes for the games that i play a petri net. But i have always assumed, that the game developers work always with such diagrams. Because to handle good complex processes and to verify them a petri net or a state machine is the best solution. And sometimes you can discover many flaws in design, before you even begin to implement the whole thing. In AI and Robotics this is a "must to", in my opinion. Perhaps game developers and studios should hire more people with knowledge in formal computer sciences.
Btw.: I agree that this is with physics and mathematics the most autistic department.

 

[Zanzoken]

I always thought Vault Dweller had the right idea about indie Kickstarters. He said:

Treat what you earn from the first game as your operational budget for the second game. So the more you spend making your first game, the less you’ll have to make your second game.

You see, the first game is always done on pure enthusiasm. You’re making a game, living the dream, working part-time, evenings and nights for years, because sleep is overrated. Enthusiasm is a great and cheap resource but you can’t run on it forever.

The goal here is to survive the indiepocalypse and build a real studio, right? So you make a game on enthusiasm, use what it earned to make a second game, use what it earned to make a third game, etc.

If you go the Kickstarter route you are spending funds on development that you don't actually have, which puts you in debt years before your game ever hits the market.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I always thought Vault Dweller had the right idea about indie Kickstarters. He said:

Treat what you earn from the first game as your operational budget for the second game. So the more you spend making your first game, the less you’ll have to make your second game.

You see, the first game is always done on pure enthusiasm. You’re making a game, living the dream, working part-time, evenings and nights for years, because sleep is overrated. Enthusiasm is a great and cheap resource but you can’t run on it forever.

The goal here is to survive the indiepocalypse and build a real studio, right? So you make a game on enthusiasm, use what it earned to make a second game, use what it earned to make a third game, etc.

If you go the Kickstarter route you are spending funds on development that you don't actually have, which puts you in debt years before your game ever hits the market.

Yep. Kickstarter is not a funding platform, it's a pre-ordering platform.

 

[Aenra]

9,900 out of 40,000 pounds, 16 days to go. Doesn't look like it's gonna happen sadly, could have been interesting.

This whole procedural story thing doesn't worry me, i can already picture critical 'junctures' having a unique story piece accompanying them, written so as it can tied in various ways to multiple other junctures, the inbetween being procedural. No problem at all; in fact, if you exclude the implications coming with the naming, it ain't all that different now is it?
Someone has a story written, it ain't long, it ain't an award winner. What to do? Add 'landmass', add 'mobs', sprinkle with a couple of interconnects between various strategic points C&C, call it a 'game'. Barring the fact that he actually "made" those areas, same shit, different day. You need be talking about some serious quality level before the difference trully begins to show.

Usually, the problem lies in the way the areas themselves are generated. Barring some pretty fucking good coding, they tend to be either way too alike or way too disparate, their proximity notwithstanding. Hence the preference for hand-made. So if anything, i'd be more worried about that than the actual story

The rest seems pretty good, although yeah, whoever said it here was right, way too ambitious; his previous game isn't particularly encouraging in that regard either, the reviews don't help build any confidence.

 

[Infinitron]

DarkUnderlord Gib devtag to chrismdp (Revelation Games)

 

[chrismdp]

Come on, don't be shy now, you got a front page news post. Lots of questions here and no answers.

Gah - I had the forum set to email me when people posted replies, yet for some reason I must've missed one and had missed all these replies! Rectifying that now :D

What systems and mechanics determine how history continues? How much do the other agents react to the player's actions and each other? Won't be much of a sandbox if it isn't dynamic.

Totally dynamic. The system works based on events that happen to players because of their life choices. For example, a player who trains as a blacksmith might make an interesting sword, or have an accident in the forge which causes him to lose a hand. The accident might be the fault of someone else, which he then blames forever about it and gains a really low opinion of them. Low opinions trigger other events and actions, such as spreading lies about them, starting fights. This can cause a chain reaction of badly feeling, which is where family feuds come from.

9,900 out of 40,000 pounds, 16 days to go. Doesn't look like it's gonna happen sadly, could have been interesting.

Yeah, I'm worried that there's too much ground to make up. There's a playable demo now, which hopefully will help those still on the fence...

This whole procedural story thing doesn't worry me, i can already picture critical 'junctures' having a unique story piece accompanying them, written so as it can tied in various ways to multiple other junctures, the inbetween being procedural.

Yes, that's roughly the idea, along with the fact that the critical junctures are triggered by a combination of procedural elements.

Usually, the problem lies in the way the areas themselves are generated. Barring some pretty fucking good coding, they tend to be either way too alike or way too disparate, their proximity notwithstanding. Hence the preference for hand-made. So if anything, i'd be more worried about that than the actual story

Yeah this is the tricky bit. Getting them not feeling all alike is hard and I plan on spending a fair amount of time on it.

The rest seems pretty good, although yeah, whoever said it here was right, way too ambitious; his previous game isn't particularly encouraging in that regard either, the reviews don't help build any confidence.

I know this. It's very challenging building games like these, and I feel like I had a pretty good stab at it in the last game, which I can improve on with the second. It might be too ambitious, but I want to make games I actually want to play, and these tend to be the ambitious ones

So anyway, there's a demo of the combat now. There's a download link along with plenty more information about how the combat works on this update:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/chrismdp/ealdorlight/posts/1920007

Thanks
Chris

 

[SausageInYourFace]

There is a live stream with combat demo and Q&A currently live, if anyone cares:

Edit: aaand, its over now but there will probably be another one at the end of the week

https://live.kickstarter.com/chris-parsons/live/finished-combat-demo-tour

 

[Feyd Rautha]

combat looked great

 

[chrismdp]

combat looked great

Thanks - I'm really happy with how it turned out. Did you see the night mode?

I'm also running a Thunderclap for tomorrow afternoon, so if you care enough to donate a tweet or Facebook post to the campaign, sign up here.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

Another stream imminent:

Posted by Chris Parsons (Creator)
Dear all,

Just a quick reminder that I've live streaming the combat night mode demo at 2pm UK time (that's in 10 minutes time): https://live.kickstarter.com/chris-parsons/live/combat-at-night

 

[chrismdp]

So the campaign is done. Didn't hit the goal, but a number of positives and lessons to draw out of the experience.

I'm running a very short survey to decide what's next for Ealdorlight. Please would you mind filling it out? I'm especially interested if you didn't back the project.

Fill in survey and help decide what's next for Ealdorlight and me

I'm going to pause work on Ealdorlight to figure out what I should do. Without budget for a proper team, I'm not going to be able to do the game justice in its current form. I may choose to cut design, scope and the art requirements right down to a simpler game.

In the meantime, my game development time will be focused on Sol Trader. The core history generation and AI engine will always be shared between the two games, and I was always planning on improving this further during the development of Ealdorlight. Working on Sol Trader's core engine makes it a better game, serves my existing Kickstarter backers, and solidifies the platform on which I can build Ealdorlight in future.

Thanks for all the robust discussion, as expected from RPG Codex! It's been emotional

Thanks
Chris

 

[Drowed]

I think Patfhinder ended up overshadowing this game a lot, which is a shame.

 

[chrismdp]

I've released a few bug fixes and improvements to the balance of populations already this week.

Going forward, I'm planning brand new mechanics that will flesh out the gameplay, focused around jobs, making organisations more interesting, and continuing the history generation through the main game to make the game world more dynamic.