Would be really cool.
-
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ELEX Pre-Release Thread
- Thread starter Jools
- Start date
Would be really cool.
CreamyBlood
Arcane
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- 1,392
As has been said a million times before, and proven by their last two games, it isn't PB anymore. They aren't going to make the game that you are hoping they will. Just let dead horses stay buried.
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I know many on the Codex disagree, but I really think Risen 3 was a yoooooooge improvement compared to Risen 2. Not particularly gameplay wise, but definitely atmosphere wise!
toro
Arcane
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- Apr 14, 2009
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No. You are right. The problem is that in the end it was still shit. That's all.
gestalt11
Arbiter
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The mythbusters showed you can in fact shine a turd and make it testably more shiny. However it was still a turd and not anywhere near as shiny as something made of silver. Its also still kind of stunk some.
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Will ELEX be as good as the best PB games from the past? Hell no it won't, all the premises are in place for another terribad piece of shit (especially after seeing how poor was Risen 3, which for the love of God I cannot understand how people can find better than Risen 2). But, I dunno, I'm kind of a sucker for PB stuff, so I'll play it for sure, at least twice.
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You all know I'm right.
Aenra
Guest
Ok, am gonna type it all..
Why PB is dead to me. (a.k.a. an essay in vain)
- Let's start with the issues plaguing them now, in general:
1. Visuals/aesthetics
Gothic I and II had a theme going that was spot on. Partly dark, partly grim, partly the fact that gfx at the time were a bit blocky (which added to that "crisp" factor we are so fond of), partly the palette itself chosen so as to compliment said overall theme.. it all set the Mood™. They had this. The 'map' is there, all it takes is to follow.
What have they done instead? Moved on to flashier, bloomy, sun particled, bright as fuck thematics. Nothing to do with competence, it cannot even get there. This stops right at the design philosophy department. Someone cannot even grasp this, let alone go "'eureka' man, that's the issue!"
2. Sound
Accompanying the thematic as outlined above, it fucking fit. It worked. And combined with the combat (it's on its way, read below) it worked as sound must. An extra layer. Tell me how many of you can't recall, by heart, right now, the theme playing when you first glimpsed upon the castle in the valley of mines.. They had this. It's on said same 'map' mentioned above.
3. Combat
NOTR (which yours trully wasn't crazy about because see* below) was where they were AT objectively speaking. It was hard enough to make it challenging, but manageable enough for even a fucktard like me (elephant reflexes) to master. Done, iterated, patched further, it worked (/Al Pacino voice).
*Broken down, it featured a section i was delighted at seeing, the actual mechanics, and one i detested, namely the bloating that accompanied said changes. Some were fine with both being mashed into one, opinions opinions.
Now the thing is, this paves the way in regard to the difficulty system as well. Give me a NOTR sans bloating as 'normal', a 100% faithful NOTR as 'hardcore' (and if you got time, you can always expand on enemy mobs' moves). This too is on the 'map'. No wheel to be re-invented. And yet..
Now before we even move on to the rest, consider a simple example with just the above:
Simple, two-room cave in GII, the one behind the tavern in the crossroads (not the locked door to its left with the teleporter, the cave; right behind the cemetary). Bullshit geography/level design, linear, etc. It's just that tiny cave right? Still, partly the visuals, partly the fucking sound man, partly the NOTR combat experience™, you went in half shitting your pants. You couldn't see, the music was tellingly grimmer, the knowing was there they'd probably chop you up inside. Done. This was there. No one needs a fucking re-invention or soul searching. It was there, it worked.
4. Theme/Story
GI and GII were prime examples of what i would -then- very roughly describe as Euro-centric mentality-ridden games (in opposition to what i'd expect to see in a Pan-A-Mericana title); there was an absolute lack of morals (some NPCs could be seen as embracing/projecting morals but in fact their current agendas were such that could be masked as morals-related); there was an 'ends above means' mentality you the player had to embrace; and most of all, because said two factors can be found in a yank title, the way in which they were presented was faithful to the EU mentality. We are more cynical, we are older (culturally), we have collectively experienced more. It sounds pretentious and overly generalised, but it is at the heart of so many things, GI and GII included:
That lack of extra analysing (i don't need to be told, i 'get' why on my own). That lack of patronising/indirect speeches (because we STILL have no 'tea parties' to satisfy before submitting). That ..verbosity.. in passing the 'main' component of the story along, because it touches on things we are so very weary of seeing repeated, time and time again. Just the facts ma'am, thank you.
Now somehow, the more these boys grew in age, the more Amerikwans they all became. It is a symptom one can discern in so many Europeans (globally in fact, lol), but that's besides the point. Somehow, despite getting wiser with age, theyalmost appear as if regressing in the way they handle these topics. And it shows. Same 'map'.
5. Smart level design
I would be willing to say "it's because of console ports limitations" and excuse them from blame.. technically speaking. This is not the case, but say it was. Say it was true. What happened to learning from your mistakes? This too they had once, GI and II were the kind of game where secrets could be found right next to where you started and all through the game. While no way near say SS2 (to name the flavour of the month due to SS3), they too had succeeded in creating a complex, multi-layered land despite its limited size. One you had every reason AND motive to traverse back and forth again and again. And you did not mind doing it. Made. Done. On the 'map'. All it takes is one retard to say "hey man, that was cool back then, what happened?"
- And end it by explaining why am i saying "PB is dead to me" rather than "PB has been dead" (a.k.a hope).
ELEX:
i) bright/glossy? Check. There's your aesthetics right out the window.
ii) steampunkie? Check. Double issue here. One, we are leaving 'gothic' (literally the advent of a past element into the present [for the literature lovers]) and entering rocket fucking boosters and tah futur m8 !!1!. Two, we are trying to attract (hopefuly) some new blood, the pewpewpew-on-consoles/akshunie type of new blood (connotations..the thematic of boosters and scifi coupled with fighting).
iii) writing and theme? You mean apart from reminding us any derivative hollywood flick? Why don't you read again what little they've put out there thus far..and get back to me..
The above while they proclaim what exactly? That after arduous soul-searching, they're going back to their roots.. need i really say more? They cannot even comprehend the idea, the logic behind the issue.. forget implementation altogether, this ship can't even sail there. You gotta do the thinking first.
So to me? It's dead Jim.. and i mourn it daily, but it's dead. Hasn't moved or budged since NOTR
P.S. People that found GIII worthy in any way, shape or form, need not reply
P.P.S. Because sooner or later, someone will mention Risen I again.. i liked Risen. As 'a' game. I did not like Risen as the culmination of the Gothics' legacy made present. Two different things.
Why PB is dead to me. (a.k.a. an essay in vain)
- Let's start with the issues plaguing them now, in general:
1. Visuals/aesthetics
Gothic I and II had a theme going that was spot on. Partly dark, partly grim, partly the fact that gfx at the time were a bit blocky (which added to that "crisp" factor we are so fond of), partly the palette itself chosen so as to compliment said overall theme.. it all set the Mood™. They had this. The 'map' is there, all it takes is to follow.
What have they done instead? Moved on to flashier, bloomy, sun particled, bright as fuck thematics. Nothing to do with competence, it cannot even get there. This stops right at the design philosophy department. Someone cannot even grasp this, let alone go "'eureka' man, that's the issue!"
2. Sound
Accompanying the thematic as outlined above, it fucking fit. It worked. And combined with the combat (it's on its way, read below) it worked as sound must. An extra layer. Tell me how many of you can't recall, by heart, right now, the theme playing when you first glimpsed upon the castle in the valley of mines.. They had this. It's on said same 'map' mentioned above.
3. Combat
NOTR (which yours trully wasn't crazy about because see* below) was where they were AT objectively speaking. It was hard enough to make it challenging, but manageable enough for even a fucktard like me (elephant reflexes) to master. Done, iterated, patched further, it worked (/Al Pacino voice).
*Broken down, it featured a section i was delighted at seeing, the actual mechanics, and one i detested, namely the bloating that accompanied said changes. Some were fine with both being mashed into one, opinions opinions.
Now the thing is, this paves the way in regard to the difficulty system as well. Give me a NOTR sans bloating as 'normal', a 100% faithful NOTR as 'hardcore' (and if you got time, you can always expand on enemy mobs' moves). This too is on the 'map'. No wheel to be re-invented. And yet..
Now before we even move on to the rest, consider a simple example with just the above:
Simple, two-room cave in GII, the one behind the tavern in the crossroads (not the locked door to its left with the teleporter, the cave; right behind the cemetary). Bullshit geography/level design, linear, etc. It's just that tiny cave right? Still, partly the visuals, partly the fucking sound man, partly the NOTR combat experience™, you went in half shitting your pants. You couldn't see, the music was tellingly grimmer, the knowing was there they'd probably chop you up inside. Done. This was there. No one needs a fucking re-invention or soul searching. It was there, it worked.
4. Theme/Story
GI and GII were prime examples of what i would -then- very roughly describe as Euro-centric mentality-ridden games (in opposition to what i'd expect to see in a Pan-A-Mericana title); there was an absolute lack of morals (some NPCs could be seen as embracing/projecting morals but in fact their current agendas were such that could be masked as morals-related); there was an 'ends above means' mentality you the player had to embrace; and most of all, because said two factors can be found in a yank title, the way in which they were presented was faithful to the EU mentality. We are more cynical, we are older (culturally), we have collectively experienced more. It sounds pretentious and overly generalised, but it is at the heart of so many things, GI and GII included:
That lack of extra analysing (i don't need to be told, i 'get' why on my own). That lack of patronising/indirect speeches (because we STILL have no 'tea parties' to satisfy before submitting). That ..verbosity.. in passing the 'main' component of the story along, because it touches on things we are so very weary of seeing repeated, time and time again. Just the facts ma'am, thank you.
Now somehow, the more these boys grew in age, the more Amerikwans they all became. It is a symptom one can discern in so many Europeans (globally in fact, lol), but that's besides the point. Somehow, despite getting wiser with age, they
5. Smart level design
I would be willing to say "it's because of console ports limitations" and excuse them from blame.. technically speaking. This is not the case, but say it was. Say it was true. What happened to learning from your mistakes? This too they had once, GI and II were the kind of game where secrets could be found right next to where you started and all through the game. While no way near say SS2 (to name the flavour of the month due to SS3), they too had succeeded in creating a complex, multi-layered land despite its limited size. One you had every reason AND motive to traverse back and forth again and again. And you did not mind doing it. Made. Done. On the 'map'. All it takes is one retard to say "hey man, that was cool back then, what happened?"
- And end it by explaining why am i saying "PB is dead to me" rather than "PB has been dead" (a.k.a hope).
ELEX:
i) bright/glossy? Check. There's your aesthetics right out the window.
ii) steampunkie? Check. Double issue here. One, we are leaving 'gothic' (literally the advent of a past element into the present [for the literature lovers]) and entering rocket fucking boosters and tah futur m8 !!1!. Two, we are trying to attract (hopefuly) some new blood, the pewpewpew-on-consoles/akshunie type of new blood (connotations..the thematic of boosters and scifi coupled with fighting).
iii) writing and theme? You mean apart from reminding us any derivative hollywood flick? Why don't you read again what little they've put out there thus far..and get back to me..
The above while they proclaim what exactly? That after arduous soul-searching, they're going back to their roots.. need i really say more? They cannot even comprehend the idea, the logic behind the issue.. forget implementation altogether, this ship can't even sail there. You gotta do the thinking first.
So to me? It's dead Jim.. and i mourn it daily, but it's dead. Hasn't moved or budged since NOTR
P.S. People that found GIII worthy in any way, shape or form, need not reply
P.P.S. Because sooner or later, someone will mention Risen I again.. i liked Risen. As 'a' game. I did not like Risen as the culmination of the Gothics' legacy made present. Two different things.
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- Messages
- 3,918
Ok.
PB makes games specifically for publishers, that sums up everything. Everything. 
I'm not sure if all of this has been mentioned here: http://community.elexgame.com/threads/207-All-Confirmed-ELEX-Info
For example
Doesn't sound too bad.
For example
Doesn't sound too bad.
1.There will be modern and medievel weapons
3.Magic will find it's way into the game. Details on that later
I am interested how would they tie it together? VM:Redemption did it pretty good. I am intrigued.
3.Magic will find it's way into the game. Details on that later
I am interested how would they tie it together? VM:Redemption did it pretty good. I am intrigued.
Excidium II
Self-Ejected
What is there to do in a game like this? It's just something that subtracts HP.
Doktor Best
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 2,877
PB makes games specifically for publishers, that sums up everything. Everything.
Well you gotta atleast give them some credit for changing the publisher because they didnt want to make shit games anymore. Its a small company. Its not like publishers come crawling and throw money at them and let them do what they want, they had to make deals with publishers and adjust to their will. And well if those publishers are represented by a clueless fuck who repeats industry mantras and tries to force a niche gamestudio to copy Bioware and Assassins Creed, well then you get games like Risen2+3.
I am probably the wrong person to listen to when it comes to Pyranha Bytes as i am a glowing fanboy, but i actually have a somewhat better feeling about this game simply because they changed the publisher for this one. I want to believe.
vonAchdorf
Arcane
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- Sep 20, 2014
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- 13,465
cherry blossom
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2013
- Messages
- 1,258
Each of their games past NOTR have become progressively worse, title by title, feature by feature. Is there any reason left to be hopeful about anything from PB beside the nostalgy of Gothic series?
Unless at least the free-form climbing from Gothic I/II is back in, fuck PB.
Unless at least the free-form climbing from Gothic I/II is back in, fuck PB.
Doktor Best
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2015
- Messages
- 2,877
Nah. Risen1 was genuinely good, far better than the atrocity called Gothic3, which is till today their worst game by far.
toro
Arcane
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2009
- Messages
- 14,806
They said the same thing for the last 3 games and they did not deliver.
Name dropping Gothic again ... is lack of imagination.
Fuck'em.
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