Vapourware End State - turn-based tactics by Finnish lunatic - now available on Early Access(!)

[xmd1997]

Huh. Well what do you know, they're still alive.

https://www.facebook.com/EndStateGame/

 

[Alienman]

It became nuXcom.

 

[Modron]

Yeah that UI is definitely drawing from nuxcom but from the gameplay vid for the greenlight trailer ages ago you could tell it was already more complex with target shots, firing in bursts, and from these screens you can see people have 30 ap to act with, can melee, and take both hp and armor damage when shot. So I am willing to wager it will be a better game with it comes out in 2030.

 

[Alienman]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

 

[Modron]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

Yeah but it always had those. All they did was steal the icon styling from nuxcom compared to old shots.

 

[xmd1997]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

Nah. The game had full and half cover system from the very beginning. They explain how the system works on their dev blog. Although the blog is from a couple years ago so who knows accurate it is. It sounds pretty interesting too.
http://www.endstategame.com/devlog-1-movement-and-positioning/

 

[xmd1997]

So I am willing to wager it will be a better game with it comes out in 2030.

I hear you man. They've been saying that the Alpha testing is "Just around the corner now" for two fucking years now.

 

[Alienman]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

Yeah but it always had those. All they did was steal the icon styling from nuxcom compared to old shots.

I forget. I forget, again.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Dimitri? Is that you?

 

[phosphorus]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

I am wondering what do you think is the best kind of cover system for this type of game? Being tile-based etc. A realistic line-of-sight based system, or a more abstract one?

Having tested these systems, what I have found is that for line-of-sight based system it is more difficult for the player to gauge if they actually are in cover or not, for example if the cover is not tall enough the characters head could stick out and be visible (depending on the stance and direction they look at, animation), resulting in the cover being not effective at all. A more abstract system results in sometimes unrealistic coverage, where the cover protects the character even though visually it shouldn't, but the player doesn't need to try to visually determine whether the characters vital parts are covered in each position.

 

[Infinitron]

I am wondering what do you think is the best kind of cover system for this type of game? Being tile-based etc. A realistic line-of-sight based system, or a more abstract one?

Having tested these systems, what I have found is that for line-of-sight based system it is more difficult for the player to gauge if they actually are in cover or not, for example if the cover is not tall enough the characters head could stick out and be visible (depending on the stance and direction they look at, animation), resulting in the cover being not effective at all. A more abstract system results in sometimes unrealistic coverage, where the cover protects the character even though visually it shouldn't, but the player doesn't need to try to visually determine whether the characters vital parts are covered in each position.

Uh. Are you the Finnish lunatic developer?

EDIT: Looks like it.

 

[phosphorus]

Nope. No. Definitely not. Totally different guy

 

[ArchAngel]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

I am wondering what do you think is the best kind of cover system for this type of game? Being tile-based etc. A realistic line-of-sight based system, or a more abstract one?

Having tested these systems, what I have found is that for line-of-sight based system it is more difficult for the player to gauge if they actually are in cover or not, for example if the cover is not tall enough the characters head could stick out and be visible (depending on the stance and direction they look at, animation), resulting in the cover being not effective at all. A more abstract system results in sometimes unrealistic coverage, where the cover protects the character even though visually it shouldn't, but the player doesn't need to try to visually determine whether the characters vital parts are covered in each position.

Does not matter. Make bigger squads like in UFO and players will not mind losing soldiers here and there to more realistic cover.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

I am wondering what do you think is the best kind of cover system for this type of game? Being tile-based etc. A realistic line-of-sight based system, or a more abstract one?

Having tested these systems, what I have found is that for line-of-sight based system it is more difficult for the player to gauge if they actually are in cover or not, for example if the cover is not tall enough the characters head could stick out and be visible (depending on the stance and direction they look at, animation), resulting in the cover being not effective at all. A more abstract system results in sometimes unrealistic coverage, where the cover protects the character even though visually it shouldn't, but the player doesn't need to try to visually determine whether the characters vital parts are covered in each position.

Since End State is tile-based and time unit -based, I think both JA games built a solid foundation that shouldn't be tampered with too much. If it ain't broken...

Whatever you do, don't even consider taking APs out from the game! That's an instant death sentence as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Bohr]

A 'Finnish Lunatic" tag is long overdue on the Codex

 

[Alienman]

Maybe. But I'm guessing it has that cover only gives you a defensive boost instead of actually protecting you from projectiles. Even has half, full cover icons.

I am wondering what do you think is the best kind of cover system for this type of game? Being tile-based etc. A realistic line-of-sight based system, or a more abstract one?

Having tested these systems, what I have found is that for line-of-sight based system it is more difficult for the player to gauge if they actually are in cover or not, for example if the cover is not tall enough the characters head could stick out and be visible (depending on the stance and direction they look at, animation), resulting in the cover being not effective at all. A more abstract system results in sometimes unrealistic coverage, where the cover protects the character even though visually it shouldn't, but the player doesn't need to try to visually determine whether the characters vital parts are covered in each position.

My go to is always Silent Storm when it comes to 3D. For cover you just have your character crouch behind something, sidestep to take shots from behind wall cover etc etc.

 

[norolim]

Guys, guys, this is now a tablet game. Abandon ship!

 

[Zombra]

FUCK

 

[xmd1997]

Guys, guys, this is now a tablet game. Abandon ship!

The Surface Pro 4 is technically a low-mid range laptop, its gimmick is simply a detachable screen which can be used like a tablet. It uses Windows 10 OS(With an I3, I5, or I7 along with a special integreted intel GPU). You can run any low-end steam game on it such as Skyrim or CS:GO.

 

[norolim]

Bros, it's a Windows tablet/laptop hybrid and quite a powerful one. I was just fucking with you.

 

[xmd1997]

Bros, it's a Windows tablet/laptop hybrid and quite a powerful one. I was just fucking with you.

I know. But no doubt there will still be idiots on here who'll assume the worst. *Shrug

 

[phosphorus]

Since End State is tile-based and time unit -based, I think both JA games built a solid foundation that shouldn't be tampered with too much. If it ain't broken...

Whatever you do, don't even consider taking APs out from the game! That's an instant death sentence as far as I'm concerned.

How the AP system preference has evolved in my deranged brain meats is like this

1. First versions (2008 or something), action points only, 2 AP cardinal, 3 AP diagonal movement, varying attack AP cost. Total AP around 30.
   
2. Next "good idea" was to separate movement points (MP) and action points (AP), so now you have 1 AP cost for shoot, same MP costs for movement as above.
3. Next I wanted to unify them again, but keep the attack AP cost simple to remember so it was 10 AP per attack.
4. Current system is like the first version, AP only, varying base AP costs for weapons, generally 3 AP cost per aim level.

My go to is always Silent Storm when it comes to 3D. For cover you just have your character crouch behind something, sidestep to take shots from behind wall cover etc etc.

How the cover system is implemented now is using the line-of-sight based system (if a bodypart is not behind the cover it is not protected), but I have also implemented a cover protection chance (similar to modern XCOM systems) in order to make the covers more effective. This is something I have been going back and forth with and I have concluded to add this to gameplay settings as a on/off toggle.

 

[xmd1997]

What's the strategic layer like on ya'lls game? Out off all the info on this game, that one's the least talked about.

 

[xmd1997]

Guess my question was answered... sorta. They posted this preview image on their Facebook, although they're not ready to talk about the strategic layer in detail yet.
https://m.facebook.com/EndStateGame/

 

[phosphorus]

Yes it was meant for you, I wanted to share it to others as well.

What I can tell you is that the game is set in a fictional wartorn eastern-european country, where your group is tasked to hunt down members of a terrorist network. The strategic map is realized as a "real-time satellite image" that you use to explore, investigate leads and plan missions.