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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

MuscleSpark

Augur
Patron
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
369
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand the Epic Game Store. The cut is extremely fair, and without a solid grasp of trickle down economics most of the benefits will go over a typical user's head. There's also Sweeny's pro-developer outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Mao Zedong literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these features, to realise that they're not just good- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Epic Game Store truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the lack of user reviews, which itself is a cryptic reference to Communist Party of China's censorship. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Sergey Galyonkin's genius wit unfolds itself on their computer screens. What fools.. how I pity them.

And yes, by the way, i DO have a Fortnite tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid
 

Rinslin Merwind

Erudite
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
1,274
Location
Sea of Eventualities
Devs are moving from Steam because 30% of cuts is too much.

devs:
> introduces PLANNED dlc, sometimes with ripped out content (games nowadays have a fucking "roadmap" announced with them)
> lootboxes in singleplayer games
> release in broken state, then patch later culture (while I agree, that patch system can save studio, but devs push it to the limit and exploit)
> cutscenes everywhere (yeah, I know that this point is personal preference, but they using it because too lazy to design game with explanation of plot during gameplay)
> lazy level design that revolves around quest marker (even in games that supposed to be linear lol, again my personal, but I think many people will agree)
> QTE (nuff said)
> Paid mods

players:
> Don't take it as offence, but I don't like where this going.

Devs:
Fuck off, you toxic piece of shite. We make games for successful people, not for nerds like you. Real gaymers buy our product and don't complying. *dabs and leaving the room*

Some time later

Devs:
> Halp, greedy Steam takes our money! Support as on our brand new customer hostile store! You also a problem and silencing you is an answer.

Reaction of normal people: Nah, fuck you.

Reaction of EGS activist: Sure, also I would fuck with brain of other people in hopes that they will join too.
 

GrainWetski

Arcane
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,103
If the retards genuinely cared about the 30% cut they'd have been whining about it for the last 20 years, not the last 20 weeks.
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
I'm generally on the side of more competition being good, and thus don't hate the Epic store
Bribing third parties to sell solely through you is not "competition", it's what the Mafia does when it wants to get rid of a "competitor".

I feel like this is a question where if you have to ask it you'll never understand why, so I dunno what to tell ya. Like I said above, one company having total control is bad, but you don't care or see that. So fine. Rinslin is doing that thing above where he assumes I'm a fan of Epic in some way (I'm not) because I think competition is good
Mindlessly regurgitating "competition good" to excuse every business move and statement Epic makes like you're Tim Sweeney and that's apparently the only reason you can fall back on to defend what you're trying to do to the PC gaming market and ecosystem, including and worst of all outright bribes for exclusivity, but also trying to remove established customer feedback methods like forums and reviews, Sales and many other established features and things is pretty stupid.

There's a reason why a monopoly position on the market is bad, and that is usually because a company in such a role abuses their market position to gain ever more profit and turns anti-consumer. Steam/Valve sure had its dicey moments like when they tried Paid Mods in conjunction with Bethesda which they ultimately backed off of after backlash or when they tried to turn into taste-makers and morality police by banning games like Hatred they've mostly backed off of, or the introduction of Trading cards and Microtransactions in some of their games, but has overall been much more benevolent than many/any of the other big platforms. But what have they done overall? They've opened their market to almost every dev with Steam Direct after complaints by journos/Indies and allowed even porn games at the risk of personal reputational damage and mainstream backlash. They've introduced regular Sales, Sweeney and Galyonkin apparently don't believe in Sales since they "devalue" games and "train customers to wait for discounts". They've introduced Linux and Mac support, developed their own Linux distribution and even tried to back it with a hardware initiative without double-dipping, while Sweeney doesn't really care about a small open market. They haven't bought or tried to run competitors aggressively out of the market in the decade or-so they've been at the top. They've even allowed devs to generate keys for nothing and sell them on their own sites, third-party sites and retail for which they don't get a cut or simply use competing stores at personal expense. They've generally shouldered the costs for specific payment methods while Epic wants the customers to bear them. They've helped some VR devs financially and never demanded Exclusivity (they outright allowed them to release their games on other platforms and consoles) when Oculus first started engaging in the practice of trying to buy off devs for their Store and while Oculus hardware-locked their store and only allows their own products to work, SteamVR supports all existing VR hardware within reason, even that of their main competitor Oculus and Microsoft's WMR:
“We don’t think exclusives are a good idea for customers or developers,” said Newell in response to Redditor elpollodiablo187. “A lot of the interesting VR work is being done by new developers. There is a triple-risk whammy – a new developer, creating new game mechanics on a new platform. We’re in a much better position to absorb financial risk than a new VR developer, so we are happy to offset that giving developers development funds (essentially pre-paid Steam revenue).”

“There are no strings attached to those funds – they can develop for the Rift, or PlayStation VR or whatever the developers thinks are the right target VR systems. Our hope is that by providing that funding that developers will be less likely to take on deals that require them to be exclusive.”

There's a reason people prefer Steam over the Alternatives, and it's exactly the business practices they engage in and that they're generally consumer friendly and listen to feedback. Saying "Steam bad" doesn't make you clever if you don't really have a reasoning behind it. Google and Facebook for instance aren't considered "bad" lately just because they're big, but because they're increasingly abusing their market position in the same (and other ways) Epic is trying without having first built up the required market share. Most companies at least try to pay lip service to customer interests before they gain the required foothold to turn on them and dictate terms. Epic is openly and enthusiastically anti-consumer from the very start of their "platform" and using monopolist tactics without being in a position to do so, it's in their DNA. And they're making most of their revenue off of Microtransactions from teenagers in a fad game, but what happens when that runs out? If they're doing this stuff now when they're trying to gain market share, what do you think they would do if they would ever get into a dominant market position? Look at the first few pages of the thread and see that most people were at first curious and open-minded before it became clear what kind of business practices Epic would engage in. Fuck their retarded console mind-set.

Devs are moving from Steam because 30% of cuts is too much.
Some devs are moving from Steam (for a specified time period at least) because they're being bribed with cold hard cash and promised guaranteed Sales (a practice that may benefit the first few that take the deal in the short term, but isn't sustainable long-term and damages their reputation), the cut barely has anything to do with it and they didn't move to other stores previously that allowed an even lower cut than Epic takes. It'd be pretty stupid for Steam/Valve to knee-jerkingly cut off 60% of their revenue (although, they had already cut their share to 25/20% based on Sales performance a few weeks before the Epic store went Live and there are enough exceptions like third-party stores/keys and cash payment that indicates their realistic cut is lower than 30% overall to begin with) as long as Epic keeps engaging in this practice.

If the retards genuinely cared about the 30% cut they'd have been whining about it for the last 20 years, not the last 20 weeks.
Or they'd at least whine about Google Play, Apple App Store, Nintendo eShop, Xbox Live, PlayStation Network and all other players taking the same cut (and also cuts from retail sales), you know to stay consistent.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
They've introduced Linux and Mac support, developed their own Linux distribution and even tried to back it with a hardware initiative without double-dipping, while Sweeney doesn't really care about a small open market.
Worth noting that they have not dropped support for Linux(even though Steam Machines weren't a success), they've actually recently hired more people to work on it. Wine is directly integrated to Steam now via Proton and lets you launch windows games directly from the Linux client. Additionally, Valve is behind the funding of DXVK, the DX11 to Vulkan wrapper which is a net benefit for everyone(look at old Glide games as to why this is good.)
 

Lutte

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
1,969
Location
DU's mom
DXVK is an incredible piece of software. Never before current era had it been possible to play new gen/latest release games so soon on linux, sometimes on day 1, sometimes a few weeks or months after.

I still remember when even emulating anything above dx9 felt like it would take a miracle, and now we're past the point of lagging in parity of support. It's amazing.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
2,323
Location
Illinois
Additionally, Valve is behind the funding of DXVK, the DX11 to Vulkan wrapper
Would you say they have a monopoly on it and no competition in the Linux sphere? Hmmmmmmmmm, I feel a game journo article coming on. "The hidden story behind Valve's digital slumlord empire, how Valve Software takes advantage of the disabled and unfortunate using 'Linux'"
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
B-but exclusives are bad! DLive should compete against Twitch just with b-better features and s-service and stuffies. Forcing me to watch another s-service is bad!
2.2. Live Content Exclusivity. Solely for any live audio-visual work you choose to provide to us as User Content (your “Live Twitch Content”), starting from beginning of the Initial Broadcast of any such Live Twitch Content, and continuing for a period of twenty-four (24) hours following the end of the Initial Broadcast of such Live Twitch Content (the “Exclusivity Period”), such Live Twitch Content is exclusive to Twitch (even as to you). During the Exclusivity Period of any Live Twitch Content, you will not, nor permit or authorize any third party to, broadcast, stream, distribute, exhibit and otherwise make available such Live Twitch Content in any manner.
https://www.twitch.tv/p/legal/affiliate-agreement/

BTW this was done back in the day of Hitbox before they shat the bed and people come back to Twitch since a lot of people moved to Hitbox when they started, I know this because I been told by people that the old contract is still valid that lacks the Exclusivity clause and those people can simucast.
 

Solid Snail

Learned
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
328
Lol, the mafia comparison for the Epic store is pretty accurate. I'm italian and yeah, when mafia wants to take out competition they usually burn other stores/activities or force them to quit (by burning their cars, beat them up etc), exactly what Epic is doing.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Or whatever client people want - which is what we would have if there was actually "competition" (something these EGS shills claim to support). Epic paying vendors not to sell on other stores is the antithesis of competition.

This is actually a good point. See, I'm focused on competition between clients, i.e. I don't want one client to rule them all, so other clients with actual competition seems good. But you make a good point that makes me think, in that people chose to use Steamworks and be defacto Steam exclusive, and truer competition would be getting them to choose otherwise. So thanks for the food for thought. However the problem is still that people are/were so entrenched with Steam that I'm not sure how else you could make a dent other than exclusives. GOG tried for years with DRM free, bonus items, region parity, etc. and no one REALLY cared. The only time GOG got mainstream attention was when they had something Steam did not. So while I see more where you're coming from now, after thinking it over, I'm still not sure there was any way to truly compete with Steam other than with exclusives.

It's kind of a fucked either way situation, unless you're fine with Steam having defacto control. I'm not excited at all by the Epic store, I'm just not excited by the status quo either. Not sure how else to put it.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Or whatever client people want - which is what we would have if there was actually "competition" (something these EGS shills claim to support). Epic paying vendors not to sell on other stores is the antithesis of competition.

This is actually a good point. See, I'm focused on competition between clients, i.e. I don't want one client to rule them all, so other clients with actual competition seems good. But you make a good point that makes me think, in that people chose to use Steamworks and be defacto Steam exclusive, and truer competition would be getting them to choose otherwise. So thanks for the food for thought. However the problem is still that people are/were so entrenched with Steam that I'm not sure how else you could make a dent other than exclusives. GOG tried for years with DRM free, bonus items, region parity, etc. and no one REALLY cared. The only time GOG got mainstream attention was when they had something Steam did not. So while I see more where you're coming from now, after thinking it over, I'm still not sure there was any way to truly compete with Steam other than with exclusives.

It's kind of a fucked either way situation, unless you're fine with Steam having defacto control. I'm not excited at all by the Epic store, I'm just not excited by the status quo either. Not sure how else to put it.
GOG was never a competitor to Steam. They didn't even have newer releases on it for a long time.
One of the main reasons I buy games on GOG is for the digital goodies, btw. Many older games had in-depth manuals and other physical material that GOG has digitized.

Oh, and FYI — Epic pushing for lower revenue cuts might actually end up killing GOG. Unlike Epic or Valve, GOG does not have a massive multi-billion dollar pillow to fall back on. They recently canceled their "Fair Price Package" program because of increasing revshares: https://af.gog.com/news/conclusion_of_the_bfair_price_packageb_program?as=1649904300

In the past, we were able to cover these extra costs from our cut and still turn a small profit. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore. With an increasing share paid to developers, our cut gets smaller. However, we look at it, at the end of the day we are a store and need to make sure we sell games without a loss.


So, yay competition! Now my games cost more on GOG. Competition is so great!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
GOG was never a competitor to Steam. They didn't even have newer releases on it for a long time.

Right but that's my point. There's been no real competition forever. GOG has gotten some attention with exclusive oldies here and there, and EA and Blizzard get people by only selling their own stuff on their own store, but nothing has ever made people choose another store over Steam when they could just use Steam. I mean I do, GOG, for the DRM free aspect, but we're talking generalities. So did Epic really have a choice other than exclusives to compete with? It's all well and good to say "well make a great client and earn those customers" but is there really any evidence people would leave Steam unless you made them do it? I'm not sure there was. Even once Epic's client reached feature parity with Steam's people would almost surely stick with Steam because that's where their library was.

I'm not even defending it really, just saying from a business perspective if you want to invest your Fortnite money into competing with Steam I think exclusives were the only way to go, really.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
Fair enough point I guess, but it would take them MANY years to make enough exclusives to matter, and then you've still got the problem of how to sell the other shit. They want to be the new Steam, not the new Origin. Anyway, don't want to get dragged back into the endless circle. Mainly just wanted to give Steamboat some credit for a good argument, but I still don't think it's that easy.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
GOG was never a competitor to Steam. They didn't even have newer releases on it for a long time.

Right but that's my point. There's been no real competition forever. GOG has gotten some attention with exclusive oldies here and there, and EA and Blizzard get people by only selling their own stuff on their own store, but nothing has ever made people choose another store over Steam when they could just use Steam. I mean I do, GOG, for the DRM free aspect, but we're talking generalities. So did Epic really have a choice other than exclusives to compete with? It's all well and good to say "well make a great client and earn those customers" but is there really any evidence people would leave Steam unless you made them do it? I'm not sure there was. Even once Epic's client reached feature parity with Steam's people would almost surely stick with Steam because that's where their library was.

I'm not even defending it really, just saying from a business perspective if you want to invest your Fortnite money into competing with Steam I think exclusives were the only way to go, really.
You attract more flies with honey than vinegar.
Epic offering free games(something they did) without paying for exclusives would have earned them major clout with gamers.
To beat Steam you have to beat them at their own game, and it requires a massive war chest which is something Epic has. You'd have to be willing to take sustained losses for years.
Want a blueprint on how it could be done? Look at Amazon. They had a razor thin profit for years, and often were in the red. That's why they pay zero federal taxes, btw — they're still writing those losses off.
Epic would have to be willing to make bold, dangerous moves. Don't pay for exclusives, sell a AAA game at half off on release day. Offer to match any Steam price - 10%. Instead, they're pretending like this is a new market then getting upset and throwing tantrums that it's hard to dethrone the market leader without resorting to anti-consumer tactics.

The problem is that Epic clearly has no intention of playing a long game. I'm not even sure if Sweeney knows what he's doing.
 

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
11,753
Valve Software takes advantage of the disabled and unfortunate using 'Linux'"

25722.jpg
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
Right but that's my point. There's been no real competition forever.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...le-war-comes-to-pc.125953/page-2#post-5913151

nothing has ever made people choose another store over Steam when they could just use Steam.
is there really any evidence people would leave Steam unless you made them do it?
people would almost surely stick with Steam
I'm starting to think "competition" isn't really the main thing that's on your mind.

I think you'll end up disappointed in a few years if you think the "Epic Games Launcher" is going to make people leave Steam, especially if they continue with their current approach.
 

Reinhardt

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2015
Messages
29,750
Epic store is copy of soviet shops. Shitty service, low assortment, overpriced, no alternative and shopkeeper openly despises customers.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Did any of his games from the last 10 years or so survive the "try and figure out if its good process"? For him its not a grocery store its more like a zoo where they put him so he doesnt die alone in the wild.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,162
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KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Every developer who thinks user reviews are a bad thing produces utter trash that isn't worth buying. No exceptions. If you make good games woth buying you don't mind user reviews. The only reason to hate user reviews as a dev is knowing your game is so shit users will slam it.
 

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