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Eschalon Book 2 - retarded rants

soggie

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I've bought Eschalon Book 2 last week and have been playing through it several hours a day. So far I've dumped 14 hours into the game, and here's a short review.

It's a "charming" game. The general style is definitely old school, with a somewhat vague learning curve. I started building a mage and dumped it halfway through the game when I realized that Perception is one of the most important stat for the mage (rather than Intelligence). It wasn't until several visits to the forum and a little reading that I managed to create a reasonably powerful mage build, and since then had very little trouble with encounters.

First, let's talk about story. It's... cliche. You wake up with amnesia, realize that the world's going down the shitters and decides to infiltrate the enemy stronghold with the one ring and take Sauron out. Or something like that. Storyline's linear, and well... nothing much to praise about it.

Second, combat system. For some reasons I kind of liked it. It's kind of like rogue - you move one tile, or take one action, and the entire world takes one action too simultaneously. This means that you can easily run away if you want to, unlike in turn-based games where you have to endure the game cycling through all the characters in the battle before you can move again. Large scale fights suddenly become more fun to participate in.

Third, quests. Most quests are boring, unfortunately. They are few and far in-between, and most fall into the usual mold of fedex quests, massacre quests and guess-who's-the-evil-quest-giver kind. There are interesting quests in the game with multiple solutions, but those are few and very far in between. So far the most interesting quest involves a blacksmith asking you to retrieve a sword from a woman who he accuses of not paying him after the work is done. You talk to the woman and she tells you that the sword is a gift to the constable (which the smith should have gladly "donated" instead), and that the smith was late anyway and she shouldn't be paying for it. There you can end it by agreeing with the woman, or you can go and confront the constable for it. If you do, he'll ask you to get the smith and the woman to file their grievances through official channels, but at that point you can simply waltz into his room and steal the sword. Alternatively, you can sneak into the city management vaults and discover his unlawful dealings and then use it to blackmail him, achieving the same results.

Unfortunately, I've only encountered one such quest in the entire game.

Now, what's bad about Eschalon 2? THE FUCKING WALKING SPEED. Imagine playing Fallout without running at all. There's no way to adjust the speed.

The slow walking speed is made worse by horrible map designs. I just finished the Hammerlorne quest and had to take a break. It almost made me stop playing, because the area is choke full of NOTHING. Imagine a dungeon with craploads of dead ends, and you have to waste time back tracking. Even more time is wasted when you reach the end of the dungeon, complete your quest and then have to backtrack all the fucking way back to the entrance.

Not only that, there are many areas that are completely empty of any interesting encounters. Maps are fun to explore only if there's actually something to discover. I feel that most of my time in the wilderness consists of deriving enjoyment from revealing the minimap, which by the end result in nothing most of the time. There's too little content in the game, and there are many questionable design decisions that could have been prevented by simple measures (e.g. less walking).

Having said that, I will purchase Book 3 when it comes out. I will skip Book 1 because I heard the walking speed is even slower, and I can't imagine how I'd survive on that.
 

Konjad

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I have bought Book I and had fun with it (and loved main theme in the menu! Too bad Book II has it dumbed down :( ). When Book II was released I downloaded the demo and... resigned to buy it. It just felt exactly the same, except maps felt kinda more empty (that's because the world is bigger?). Nothing changed at all. It was just a demo though, idk if full version is different. Perhaps I will buy Book II someday but not yet, first I need to finish Book I and I lost interest in it lately. It's fun game but gets boring after some time (and I played it exactly 64 hrs, idk how long this game is because I was playing three characters with different classes).

Still, this game has the best graphic in all indie cRPGs, it's just beautiful. And music is very good too (damn, I LOVE SO MUCH Book I main theme!)
 

soggie

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Konjad said:
I have bought Book I and had fun with it (and loved main theme in the menu! Too bad Book II has it dumbed down :( ). When Book II was released I downloaded the demo and... resigned to buy it. It just felt exactly the same, except maps felt kinda more empty (that's because the world is bigger?). Nothing changed at all. It was just a demo though, idk if full version is different. Perhaps I will buy Book II someday but not yet, first I need to finish Book I and I lost interest in it lately. It's fun game but gets boring after some time (and I played it exactly 64 hrs, idk how long this game is because I was playing three characters with different classes).

Still, this game has the best graphic in all indie cRPGs, it's just beautiful. And music is very good too (damn, I LOVE SO MUCH Book I main theme!)

It has insane amount of polish, that's for sure. Hard to find indies like these nowadays.
 

Martin

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Regarding walking speed...

It seems walking speed has been increased significantly in book 2, but the walking speed of the character varies depending on its position on the area map. It seems to me that when walking through wide open areas the character walking speed increases alot, and slows down in other areas. The speed burst walking speed is what the constant walking speed should have been in the first place of course.

I have seen posts about the special "pacing" of eschalon and other lame excuses, but this is a glaring flaw. It adds nothing positive to the game experience and some people will probably lose interest in the game altogether because of the character movement speed.

By the way have you tried lowering some of the settings? I am playing on eschalon book 2 now on my older pc and running it with 16 bit color and openGL settings seems to increase walking speed more often. Seems performance has alot to do with the character movement speed bursts.
 

Zed

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Konjad said:
Still, this game has the best graphic in all indie cRPGs, it's just beautiful. And music is very good too (damn, I LOVE SO MUCH Book I main theme!)
This one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfBY3DggJU8

Yeah it's pretty good.

I tried Eschalon book 2 but it wasn't a game for me. Too slow and cliché.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
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Well, I'm still playing the game. Honestly, I'm enjoying it for what it is, and the fact that only one guy worked full time on it (with three other contractors for other stuff). I thought it was pretty good, but what does bug me is that there is a certain lack of quests in game, considering how difficult it can be to raise your levels after a certain point, and how much XP some quests can give you.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yeah, the walking speed still isn't really fixed. Shit sucks.

Overall a good game, though. Although the combat could be a bit more complex and less of a "whack enemy until either you or he dies" schtick.
 

soggie

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Well you can Sparkling Wonder + Entangle and then Abysmal Freeze until it dies.

Too bad there isn't any useful status ailment spells in the game.

I hope they add in a speed slider in the next game. I'm playing it at 2 hour stretches because I just got really exhausted of the walking speed. I literally groan whenever I finish a dungeon and have to walk all the fucking way back to the entrance before I can quick travel again.
 

sheek

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I liked Eschalon I. The mix of combat and exploration was just right, haven't got around to buying II yet.
 

sithren

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I fail at Book of Eschalon I. I've tried building a fighter. However, I haven't got very far. I die, a lot. I realise that Dex and Speed are just as important as Strength and Endurance, so I've tried to keep it balanced.

However, my Level 4 fighter just can't keep his own. I have to run a lot. I'm guessing you really do have to get creative with your build to be able to take on the enemies. Maybe I'll need to switch up the weapon or learn some spells. That is my rant...for whatever it is worth.

I understand what you mean about walking speed. You can make him "auto-walk" by pressing W, though. That makes it less tedious.
 

PorkaMorka

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I gave up before even finishing the demo due to the walking speed.

Life's too short man.

Somebody go link to this thread on the Eschalon forums as encouragement for him to increase the speed again.
 
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I played a mage for a while in E1. My last memory of it is running circles in a huge empty beach with a rogue after me. Eventually he'd stay behind for a bit, and I'd pelt him with the fireball until he caught up with me. I do remember a dark dungeon that had a cool atmosphere (still had to do the same hit-and-run "strategy" with the mobs there).

Some day I'll get back to it.
 

Joghurt

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I played the demo and didn't buy the full version for the same reason. The freakishly slow walking speed.
 

Fowyr

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You have pretty decent game with some downsides and can't play it because of walking speed? Looks you have a lot CRPGs to play in our enlightened age of gay elf simulators, I salute you.
 

Mortmal

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Read him again , its not only the walking speed. All in all its tedious, i know we dont have many releases but a dried husk of old school rpg wont satisfy me still. May as well forget the genre and go play a multiplayer shooter , than playing those miserable attempts of rpg, thats not only true for eschalon.
 

Joghurt

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Fowyr said:
You have pretty decent game with some downsides and can't play it because of walking speed? Looks you have a lot CRPGs to play in our enlightened age of gay elf simulators, I salute you.

Well I since I don't have as much time on my hands as I had say 5 years ago I just can't bother with rpg game where nothing happens. And I don't mean that something awesome has to happen when I press a button. I just with walking speed would have been faster and quests would be more interesting. If this game would be released say in 2005 I would have played it and probably would have loved it. Hell I admit it's a fine polished indie game. I liked the combat a lot too. It's just that I know that I won't be able to afford to spend 100+ hours into it so I didn't even bother to buy a full version.
 

PorkaMorka

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Messages
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I wasn't super interested to begin with[1] but I've never played a game with a walking speed that slow and it seemed like kind of a big deal because so much of what I played consisted of exploring largely empty areas. That's something I find tiresome even in RPGs with fast walking speeds that I otherwise enjoy. With a game I was lukewarm on to begin with it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[1] It's heavily marketed as being similar to RPGs of the past, but I don't remember playing any games like that in the past; no party, uses "roguelike turn based", but not actually a roguelike. It doesn't seem like the combat would have as much depth as in a party based game, but it also didn't look to have the challenge of a roguelike.

EDIT: Wow, I finally thought of an old game which might possibly have a system similar to Eschalon: Castle of the Winds? Roguelike without permadeath but I don't recall how many other details match up. I played it for a little bit but I was more of a Gold Box guy.
 

Fowyr

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Just play it from time to time. It have some redeeming qualities, some dungeons for example. And, BTW, Eschalon was pretty short game.
 
In My Safe Space
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Codex 2012
Joghurt said:
Fowyr said:
You have pretty decent game with some downsides and can't play it because of walking speed? Looks you have a lot CRPGs to play in our enlightened age of gay elf simulators, I salute you.

Well I since I don't have as much time on my hands as I had say 5 years ago I just can't bother with rpg game where nothing happens. And I don't mean that something awesome has to happen when I press a button. I just with walking speed would have been faster and quests would be more interesting. If this game would be released say in 2005 I would have played it and probably would have loved it. Hell I admit it's a fine polished indie game. I liked the combat a lot too. It's just that I know that I won't be able to afford to spend 100+ hours into it so I didn't even bother to buy a full version.
It makes me wonder if they made the walking speed so slow to artificially make the game longer.
 

Jaesun

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Awor Szurkrarz said:
It makes me wonder if they made the walking speed so slow to artificially make the game longer.

Personally, I think i was more a game engine design decision that he did not consider more closely. Though would be interesting to ask him this.
 
In My Safe Space
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Jaesun said:
Awor Szurkrarz said:
It makes me wonder if they made the walking speed so slow to artificially make the game longer.

Personally, I think i was more a game engine design decision that he did not consider more closely. Though would be interesting to ask him this.
Weren't there lots of complaints about slowness of movement when the first part was released?
 

Jaesun

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Awor Szurkrarz said:
Jaesun said:
Awor Szurkrarz said:
It makes me wonder if they made the walking speed so slow to artificially make the game longer.

Personally, I think i was more a game engine design decision that he did not consider more closely. Though would be interesting to ask him this.
Weren't there lots of complaints about slowness of movement when the first part was released?

Yeah. I used to follow the forums there, back in the day, and that did become the #1 complaint about the game. IIRC Basilisk Ranger seemed quite surprised by this... though it has been a while since I remember him specifically mentioning his thoughts on the slow walking.
 

Elwro

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Sure, there were complaints about that, and I think the walking speed is marginally higher in Book II.
 

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