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but you could argue that YHWH is a 100% cuntface megalomaniac and Lucifer is a kind of cool guy who is probably the closest thing you'll get to someone who has humans' well being in mind as well
This is actually why the final battle wasn't in the game, the guy with a cunt for a face just wasn't classy enough like all the dickmonsters, so YHWH got censored out.
I think designers also know that as soon as you start to touch on true malevolence and suffering, even the people who claim to want to play evil can't really stomach the reality of it and end up going back to their normal games
Yeah, I can't imagine anyone wanting to play as a psychopath. I know it has been done before such as in Postal 1 which IIRC was pretty serious rather than P2's light hearted satire and such. I imagine it might be a cool twist to find out late in a game that you're playing a delusional psycho and all the people you killed weren't really evil, but out right playing a serial killer or something would likely only appeal to sadists as porn. I suppose if the gameplay was exceptionally good...
Not RPGs, but there is something sinister in Dominions 3 or Cnquest of Elysium 3 when you play as the factions that allow the sacrifice of virgins to summon demons and devils.
I think designers also know that as soon as you start to touch on true malevolence and suffering, even the people who claim to want to play evil can't really stomach the reality of it and end up going back to their normal games
I must disagree. In other genres true evil acts\games did not turn off its audience, quite the opposite actualy. manhunter for example (nerever played it but killing people in most brutal way for higher score sounds evil to me)
Uh, no... I've played some truly evil games, for example one where you abduct a school bus full of children and then have to break them mentally and physically so that they are ready for sex trafficking. Or various games involving torture and killing.
Without any doubt, those games were niche of all niches. Or are you saying that the audience of potential child rapists and torture killers is enough?
Evil for the sake of evil is naturally unappealing, unless you are mentally sick. GTA 3 was probably the first game that was revolting to me - mainly due to the emotionlessly psychotic nature of the protagonist. It is one thing to piledrive in Carmageddon, but in GTA 3 for the first time killing people for lulz no longer felt... right.
I imagine it might be a cool twist to find out late in a game that you're playing a delusional psycho and all the people you killed weren't really evil...
Imagine a twist where you'd be playing a psycho sadist who gets off on raping/torturing/killing innocents, and then it turns that the innocents were actually bad guys (child molesters!) who deserved death, and you were manipulated by some 'good guy' into killing them in the worst way possible?
...
Also "evil" is really hard to pin down. Playing a psychopath (and well executed) - no, I don't know any RPGs like that. Evil as "being selfish" and hurting NPCs and stuff - well, you can do so with any RPG, it's almost always a requirement if you want to powergame (e.g. wiping out towns or killing "good" NPCs for XP/loot).
Yeah, I can't imagine anyone wanting to play as a psychopath. I know it has been done before such as in Postal 1 which IIRC was pretty serious rather than P2's light hearted satire and such. I imagine it might be a cool twist to find out late in a game that you're playing a delusional psycho and all the people you killed weren't really evil, but out right playing a serial killer or something would likely only appeal to sadists as porn. I suppose if the gameplay was exceptionally good...
Mass killer isn't the same as a serial killer. Mass killers are usually just seriously disappointed with people and world in general, not psychopaths.
Postal would be a game you'd like to play if you'd be stuck in a workplace with mobbing, backstabbing, etc. for example.
I think designers also know that as soon as you start to touch on true malevolence and suffering, even the people who claim to want to play evil can't really stomach the reality of it and end up going back to their normal games
Mask of the betrayer had a pretty malevolent path in my opinion. As for stomaching the reality of it.. it depends on your definition of evil. Some people on the codex seem to think that only psychopath-level of madness would be worth the moniker. Being self-serving to the point of taking other people's lives or possessions for your own profit is plenty evil. I can stomach that.
I always play a terribly self serving character who doesn't give a single shit about other people's lives and I've enjoyed MOTB, the Fallouts, Arcanum and some others plenty from that point of view.
Dragon Age Origins also had some examples of cruelty bordering on insanity. I probably triggered every single magically-appearing knife scene in the game. My two favorites are your first encounters with that game mechanic : when you kill the man who tries to get food from you, and the badly hurt soldier you can kill because you think that taking care of him would be a waste of time.
I think designers also know that as soon as you start to touch on true malevolence and suffering, even the people who claim to want to play evil can't really stomach the reality of it and end up going back to their normal games
Mask of the betrayer had a pretty malevolent path in my opinion. As for stomaching the reality of it.. it depends on your definition of evil. Some people on the codex seem to think that only psychopath-level of madness would be worth the moniker. Being self-serving to the point of taking other people's lives or possessions for your own profit is plenty evil. I can stomach that.
I always play a terribly self serving character who doesn't give a single shit about other people's lives and I've enjoyed MOTB, the Fallouts, Arcanum and some others plenty from that point of view.
Dragon Age Origins also had some examples of cruelty bordering on insanity. I probably triggered every single magically-appearing knife scene in the game. My two favorites are your first encounters with that game mechanic : when you kill the man who tries to get food from you, and the badly hurt soldier you can kill because you think that taking care of him would be a waste of time.
Cthulhu Saves The World. Not sure how you can top Big C for sheer villainy.
Other than that, the surprisingly GOOD Super Columbine Massacre RPG. I felt that it did a good job of telling a story and getting a point across, even though the second "hell" part was derpy as fuck. Especially enjoyed the epilogue.
but you could argue that YHWH is a 100% cuntface megalomaniac and Lucifer is a kind of cool guy who is probably the closest thing you'll get to someone who has humans' well being in mind as well
This is actually why the final battle wasn't in the game, the guy with a cunt for a face just wasn't classy enough like all the dickmonsters, so YHWH got censored out.
Because they are innocent beings and easier to feel empathy for ? I have to admit, I did spare the animals from the murder knife when I went through DAO. Even though I triggered the murder scene for every single human, dwarf, elf.
Animal cruelty is one of the kind of evils I can't do even in a game. I can't help but think about the dogs I had and their utter loyalty, killing a dog crosses the line into something I won't have any part in.
Well, it's different if it's presented to you in a scene like you being attacked by a wild pack of angry animals assaulting you, but slitting the throat of a helpless, domesticated dog ? why did Bioware even include the possibility ?
There is a game from the early 90s where you play some evil wizard who has been imprisoned in a multi-level dungeon and you are trying to escape. I haven't played it and I doubt playing a supposedly evil character has any bearing on the game since it's just a fucking dungeon but there it is. Somebody's ought to know the title.
Well, it's different if it's presented to you in a scene like you being attacked by a wild pack of angry animals assaulting you, but slitting the throat of a helpless, domesticated dog ? why did Bioware even include the possibility ?
Because they are innocent beings and easier to feel empathy for ? I have to admit, I did spare the animals from the murder knife when I went through DAO. Even though I triggered the murder scene for every single human, dwarf, elf.
Animal cruelty is one of the kind of evils I can't do even in a game. I can't help but think about the dogs I had and their utter loyalty, killing a dog crosses the line into something I won't have any part in.
Well, it's different if it's presented to you in a scene like you being attacked by a wild pack of angry animals assaulting you, but slitting the throat of a helpless, domesticated dog ? why did Bioware even include the possibility ?
Agree with Shin Megami Tensei, MotB, and -- to a degree -- the Overlord/Fable games (since the evil is pretty tame). Kinda surprised nobody said New Vegas, though. One of the primary factions is the Legion. The first time most players really runs across them is after they have slaughtered a town -- where they crucified, flayed, and burned people alive, and are playing mindgames with the survivors. They don archaic Roman gear, have an affinity for mohawks and machetes, and like taking people's body parts as trophies. Did I mention their whole goal is to return the Mojave back to an atavistic hellhole of extreme barbarism?
The Legion wasn't supposed to be a Chaotic Evil faction, though. They were just badly represented in NV. Design docs and Word of God made them out to be much different to what they ended up being, mostly due to the lack of time.
Well, they'd be Lawful Evil if anybody was dumb enough to use D&D terminology on a Fallout faction.
But anyway, yeah, apparently Caesar's lands are supposed to be better in some ways than NCR lands. The NCR can't even protect its people from raiders, gangs, and theft, but Caesar's land is supposedly free of all these things.
Agree with Shin Megami Tensei, MotB, and -- to a degree -- the Overlord/Fable games (since the evil is pretty tame). Kinda surprised nobody said New Vegas, though. One of the primary factions is the Legion. The first time most players really runs across them is after they have slaughtered a town -- where they crucified, flayed, and burned people alive, and are playing mindgames with the survivors. They don archaic Roman gear, have an affinity for mohawks and machetes, and like taking people's body parts as trophies. Did I mention their whole goal is to return the Mojave back to an atavistic hellhole of extreme barbarism?
And why not? they had the noble goal of creating the humanity able to survive in the harsh wasteland without the crutch of technology which led the world to Nuclear Armageddon, You can disprove of their eXtreme methods or luditism but as Miguel and even Cas said unlike NCR they do deliver prosperity and Order, While playing for NCR you have to baby sit them for whole time doing all their work for them (which leads to huge XP and loot). The town You spoke off Nipton sold NCR soldiers they entertained to Powder Gangers and both to Legion they deserved what they got... I must admit since I am techno fetishist so I always joined the most fraction: Brotherhood of Steel and thus had to go NCR or Anarchy road... Or help Mr House to build his space program but when you do sensible the side quests and
You have to admit, taking New Vegas yourself ends in a chaotic and a bit dictatorial semi-regime. The ending says something about the Followers of the Apocalypse being overwhelmed and general shittyness level rising.
EDIT: And there are supposedly some dialogue overhaul mods being developed for skyrim along with many quite good (relatively speaking) quests. Add the cannibalism gore mod and play a werewolf and there you go, you can sneak up to people's huts at night, kill them, kill their children adding perversion including rape or something. I think fallout 3 and new vegas with lover labs mods plus gore mods is a violent psychopath's wet dream.
The loverslab mods are not real psychopath's dreams since they lack the consequences. Once they mod a world and characters that react to your depravity...
I'd have to vote for falloout new vegas as well here, as even without mods, you can do some nasty things to people, towns and factions beyond just merely killing them all ingame, by taking advantage of the many dialogue options available to you. Many of these options are not just pyschotic for the lulz options either, but can open/close additional storylines, offer different benefits/rewards, or make certain quests easier by choosing the "evil" option. This applies even when siding with the "good" ncr faction, which offers options in its quest lines and has in its backstory various crimes against humanity.
The loverslab mods are not real psychopath's dreams since they lack the consequences. Once they mod a world and characters that react to your depravity...
Indeed. That does hamper it a bit. But still, that's the closest to serial killer experience you can get. Lock the door and watch the kids run when you rape and slaughter their parents, then go after them. Hear them cry for mercy and use that cock/axe on them.
Most people here seems to think that palying evil is killing/raping kids etc
I have litle interest in this, but I would love to play as an evil wizard/demon that is trying to wype out all humanity for whatever reason (no need to rape). eg playing as irenicus in bg 2.
There is a game from the early 90s where you play some evil wizard who has been imprisoned in a multi-level dungeon and you are trying to escape. I haven't played it and I doubt playing a supposedly evil character has any bearing on the game since it's just a fucking dungeon but there it is. Somebody's ought to know the title.
Most people here seems to think that palying evil is killing/raping kids etc
I have litle interest in this, but I would love to play as an evil wizard/demon that is trying to wype out all humanity for whatever reason (no need to rape). eg playing as irenicus in bg 2.
You know that in real life nobody consider themselves truly evil not even the mass murderers,nobody would do things that they consider evil(They will think their actions are right and necessary).
So most games portray evil characters(pc or npc) as a cartoon villians that are evil just for the sake of being evil.
Most games we have pc's that kill people without no remorse or feeling and only do good things when it's convenient.
I really hate games that reward being good immediately,that's stupid and shallow mechanic that could work only in children books.
Being good should be hard and dangerous,it's easy to give your 1 gold to a beggar when you can find 5 gold in rat corpse,it's easy to help innocent maidens when they are surrounded by 5 lvl 1 thugs and it's definetly easy when you can heal your wounds just by resting 1 hour.
Being evil should be the easier way out,the most rewarding option in the short term(and eventually in the long term)
There is no risk in being good so we always became goody-good shoes because we all know that it will reward us better than evil options.
We should not feel like we are doing bad things while we are doign it,we should actually feel that way when we look back at our actions,we should see ourselves falling into darkness.
So i say there are no out evil rpg's out there because there is no need to be evil in a rpg.
I agree with you, Horus. Your first paragraph is what I know after reading a lot of shit about psychology. Real evil human beings tend to make themselves look "righteous", like crusaders fighting gays, transvestites, money digging whores or prostitutes.
We still, as a society, cannot accept video games as a proper carrier for a broader understanding of the world we live in. We could make "psychopath simulator" games, with actual cases (like Ted Bundy, or whomever you read about on trutv) being playable, but those could possibly lead to people thinking that they weren't inherently evil, just mistaken about life.
Evil is something you have to define first, is it for personal gain or just for suffering of others? Once you answer that question, you have to choose. Self serving evil is what Satan is depicted as in Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible, a spirit of humanity, hedonistic and lustful. Evil for the sake of suffering, or just for the sake of itself (ie. evil for the sake of evil) is what defines a Christian view of Satan. Most RPG games can provide the first version, but only a few get enough mods to portrait the mentally disturbed evil. The evil that is not logical, that does not bring any enrichment for the specimen who acts upon it. The latter type is Postal 1, as stated in my previous post moded Fallout 3 and New Vegas and that's about it.
I think we still have eons till we get a properly made mentally driven evil simulator of any kind.
I am a bit drunk so sorry if my post is illegible.
Most people here seems to think that palying evil is killing/raping kids etc
I have litle interest in this, but I would love to play as an evil wizard/demon that is trying to wype out all humanity for whatever reason (no need to rape). eg playing as irenicus in bg 2.
That is the second type, the mentally disturbed damatis personæ, who does his deeds in order to serve a greater "good". He might look upon humanity and see evil and corruption, and deduct that the only way he can solve it is through causing extinction. Either type is mentally disturbed, the only difference are motifs. One murders to achieve a sexual high, the other one in the name of a delusional idea.
I still came hard to my werewolf female char from skyrim slaughtering people and devouring kids.
fraction: Brotherhood of Steel and thus had to go NCR or Anarchy road... Or help Mr House to build his space program but when you do sensible the side quests and
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