Development Info Expeditions: Rome Dev Diary #15 - Companions

[Darth Roxor]

Using "creep" in this way dates back to the late 19th century and feels very anachronistic. Sloppy writing.

amazing writing lol

go ahead and explain why it's bad

i'll be waiting

 

[Roguey]

go ahead and explain why it's bad

i'll be waiting

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-history-creep

In the next century, people began to use "the creeps" for these sensations, and the term became directly associated with feelings of unease, horror, disgust, or fear, as in "That strange man standing in the corner gives me the creeps." The related phrasal verb creep out, meaning "to give (someone) the creeps," debuts much later—in the 1980s. Maybe the baby boomers just wanted to repress creepiness or simply couldn't find the expression for it until people began using freak out more and more.

Yeah, Romans didn't speak in English, but the words they use should sound period accurate if the writer gives a damn. Instead we have modern people in the superficial trappings of the past.

 

[OSK]

Yeah, Romans didn't speak in English, but the words they use should sound period accurate if the writer gives a damn. Instead we have modern people in the superficial trappings of the past.

Strong disagree. The characters are speaking Latin and the text is simply being translated to terms I understand.

 

[Roguey]

Strong disagree. The characters are speaking Latin and the text is simply being translated to terms I understand.

What would you expect for games set in times prior to modern English?

It should be readable but not sound contemporary. I don't ever want to see Romans throwing around words like drip or based or cringe or fam or sus or no cap etc.

It's not like there's a lack of historical fiction set in Rome to draw from to see the acceptable ways Romans should talk.

 

[OSK]

It should be readable but not sound contemporary. I don't ever want to see Romans throwing around words like drip or based or cringe or fam or sus or no cap etc.

It's not like there's a lack of historical fiction set in Rome to draw from to see the acceptable way Romans should talk.

I would have zero problem Gen Z words if they were intended to represent a young character frustrating other characters with slang. If you have everyone speak the same exact way you'd lose nuances in characters with varying ages, backgrounds, etc. Why have an old man from the outskirts of the empire speak exactly the same way as some teen in Rome?

 

[Roguey]

I would have zero problem Gen Z words if they were intended to represent a young character frustrating other characters with slang. If you have everyone speak the same exact way you'd lose nuances in characters with varying ages, backgrounds, etc. Why have an old man from the outskirts of the empire speak exactly the same way as some teen in Rome?

Do as the Romans did https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu

 

[OSK]

I would have zero problem Gen Z words if they were intended to represent a young character frustrating other characters with slang. If you have everyone speak the same exact way you'd lose nuances in characters with varying ages, backgrounds, etc. Why have an old man from the outskirts of the empire speak exactly the same way as some teen in Rome?

Do as the Romans did https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu

I don't live in ancient Rome so the nuances will be lost on me. It's not uncommon to see different English accents used in film to represent people of different classes (e.g. wealthy vs poor people) despite the film talking place somewhere no one spoke English. I see this as the same thing just in text.

 

[deuxhero]

I'd be more concerned about writing for a historical setting using phrases and terms 10-100 years old if the work was set in a period where recognizable English existed (1500 onward at maximum), and a record of the events could, conceivably, be translated to English. Otherwise it's way too deep a rabbit hole to care much about.

HBO's Rome managed.

Somehow, I don't think it disproves my statement it's a deep rabbit hole to say it was done by the show famous for overshooting its very large budget to the point it had to skip showing one of the most famous and important events of Roman history and have a guy in a bar summarize it instead.

 

[Darth Roxor]

go ahead and explain why it's bad

i'll be waiting

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/word-history-creep

In the next century, people began to use "the creeps" for these sensations, and the term became directly associated with feelings of unease, horror, disgust, or fear, as in "That strange man standing in the corner gives me the creeps." The related phrasal verb creep out, meaning "to give (someone) the creeps," debuts much later—in the 1980s. Maybe the baby boomers just wanted to repress creepiness or simply couldn't find the expression for it until people began using freak out more and more.

Yeah, Romans didn't speak in English, but the words they use should sound period accurate if the writer gives a damn. Instead we have modern people in the superficial trappings of the past.

I was addressing luj1 specifically, not you.

But since you've decided to reply as well, I'll just say I don't have a problem with this at all, and it's much different than zoomer internet lingo - THAT would feel very obviously out of place because it's much more contextual. "Creep out" is just a phrasal verb like any other, while "based", "sus" and whatever else are expressions with unbreakable ties either to the internet or specific social groups living only in the modern world.

 

[Roguey]

But since you've decided to reply as well, I'll just say I don't have a problem with this at all, and it's much different than zoomer internet lingo - THAT would feel very obviously out of place because it's much more contextual. "Creep out" is just a phrasal verb like any other, while "based", "sus" and whatever else are expressions with unbreakable ties either to the internet or specific social groups living only in the modern world.

So it would not break your immersion if say Romans instead spoke in 30s-era slang and used words like aces, dame, skirt, broad, bump, rub out, dough, swanky, etc.

 

[Darth Roxor]

is 'creep out' slang because i'm pretty sure it isnt

again, 'creep out' is very obviously without context

that you identify "aces, dame, skirt, broad, bump, rub out, dough, swanky, etc." as "30s-era slang" already at the outset shows that those words carry context and would be jarring

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

HBO's Rome managed.

No!

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Give me Julia wife!

 

[Mortmal]

You don't have to post every piece of PR that you get in your inbox, you know?

When we are bored we shitpost, when he's bored he newsposts....

 

[Mortmal]

Using "creep" in this way dates back to the late 19th century and feels very anachronistic. Sloppy writing.

Nothing really wrong with this. If this were a game actually written in ancient Latin I would expect the "localization" team to deliver an approximate meaning of what is being conveyed in modern English. I don't see much difference here.

I find the presence of an actual woman there more problematic.

Ancient latin ? that's not nearly enough, plebeians were using latin, the nobility was using greek as everything cultural was coming from there. Anyway with praetorian woman , this is probably as historic as last assassin creeds, so a fantasy game with a roman empire theme , absolutely nothing historic but will still play it cause there will be very little to play this year.

 

[Roguey]

is 'creep out' slang because i'm pretty sure it isnt

again, 'creep out' is very obviously without context

that you identify "aces, dame, skirt, broad, bump, rub out, dough, swanky, etc." as "30s-era slang" already at the outset shows that those words carry context and would be jarring

It's colloquial. Formally, dictionaries don't recognize this particular usage https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creep https://www.dictionary.com/browse/creep

 

[Old One]

Gag me with a spoon.

 

[Sensuki]

Doth "creep out" void the game worth playing?

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Doth "creep out" void the game worth playing?

It is nonsense anon but I will forgiveness anon for cute wifes anon! I will!

 

[Roguey]

Doth "creep out" void the game worth playing?

I just called it out as stereotypical sloppy/lazy Millennial writing (somehow previous generations managed to write fiction set in previous eras without filling it up with these kinds of obvious anachronisms). Nothing to do with other kinds of content available within.

 

[OSK]

Doth "creep out" void the game worth playing?

I just called it out as stereotypical sloppy/lazy Millennial writing (somehow previous generations managed to write fiction set in previous eras without filling it up with these kinds of obvious anachronisms). Nothing to do with other kinds of content available within.

I honestly don't understand this argument. English itself is an anachronism. What does it matter if the words being used were created 1,400 years after the events in the game? Or 1,900 years after the events in the game?

 

[Roguey]

I honestly don't understand this argument. English itself is an anachronism. What does it matter if the words being used were created 1,400 years after the events in the game? Or 1,900 years after the events in the game?

Willing suspension of disbelief.

I can see this guy speaking English and think nothing of it. I see him say "This guy creeps me out" and that rings false enough to expose the strings of the designer controlling him.

 

[OSK]

I honestly don't understand this argument. English itself is an anachronism. What does it matter if the words being used were created 1,400 years after the events in the game? Or 1,900 years after the events in the game?

Willing suspension of disbelief.

I can see this guy speaking English and think nothing of it. I see him say "This guy creeps me out" and that rings false enough to expose the strings of the designer controlling him.

Where does that come from? Would it be less jarring for you if he was speaking Elizabethan English?

 

[Larianshill]

It would be less jarring if he said something like "This man has me concerned", instead of something out of the day-to-day speech of a teenage girl.

 

[OSK]

It would be less jarring if he said something like "This man has me concerned", instead of something out of the day-to-day speech of a teenage girl.

God's teeth! This sir hast me conc'rn'd.