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Factorio - a factory building game

Blaine

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imho the avenue they will go is "hard mode" essentially something between angels/bobs and vanilla + space exploration.
Official hard mode would instantly generate them money considering a/b is most downloaded mods comp ever.

I don't think they will expand sideways underground and so on.

Angel's and Bob's take a literally everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach, though, and in my opinion they're what people download the most because they change up vanilla inputs and outputs (so you've got to re-learn/re-design, not depend on old blueprints, etc.) and essentially pad out the game. I fully acknowledge that they increase the game's level of "logistical puzzle challenge," by the way, which also adds many hours of playtime because you've got a lot more to do to get those buses moving and the end products flying out.

I don't think Wube will go this way at all, for several reasons, one of which is that there'll always be mods like Bob's and Angel's to pad out the game for those who want that sort of thing. Wube has always seemed more concerned with creating solid, broad foundations and functionally complete vanilla elegance at every tier of play, rather than cramming everything and the kitchen sink into every tier.

We like complexity, but there's such a thing as overcomplicating the baseline game with arbitrary minutiae. They've been very good at avoiding this while not oversimplifying, a great balance.
 
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Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
We like complexity, but there's such a thing as overcomplicating the baseline game with arbitrary minutiae. They've been very good at avoiding this while not oversimplifying, a great balance.
I would not be too surprised if they add some kind of lategame ore that needs more sorting/processing (but has greater yields than pure ores). Iirc the only recipe that really uses that in the base game is uranium ore, and it's a good mechanic that adds interesting layers to ore processing.

Of course, they might just take the approach that these mods already exist, so why reimplement it?

I just wish they'd develop stuff faster.
 
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I honestly have no idea what they'll add, the statement that they don't want to replicate mods means there's nothing to add, because mods have added everything. Mods have added spaceflight stuff, RTS controls and gameplay modes, and most other things like multiple Z-levels for underground layers and so on.
 

Perkel

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imho the avenue they will go is "hard mode" essentially something between angels/bobs and vanilla + space exploration.
Official hard mode would instantly generate them money considering a/b is most downloaded mods comp ever.

I don't think they will expand sideways underground and so on.

Angel's and Bob's take a literally everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach, though, and in my opinion they're what people download the most because they change up vanilla inputs and outputs (so you've got to re-learn/re-design, not depend on old blueprints, etc.) and essentially pad out the game. I fully acknowledge that they increase the game's level of "logistical puzzle challenge," by the way, which also adds many hours of playtime because you've got a lot more to do to get those buses moving and the end products flying out.

I don't think Wube will go this way at all, for several reasons, one of which is that there'll always be mods like Bob's and Angel's to pad out the game for those who want that sort of thing. Wube has always seemed more concerned with creating solid, broad foundations and functionally complete vanilla elegance at every tier of play, rather than cramming everything and the kitchen sink into every tier.

We like complexity, but there's such a thing as overcomplicating the baseline game with arbitrary minutiae. They've been very good at avoiding this while not oversimplifying, a great balance.

The reason why i am thinking this way is that they said that expansion will be just a mod you activate. They don't want for it to go core.
 

Blaine

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One day, decades from now, two old men will shuffle into a pub, order pints, and sit down together. One will be wearing a t-shirt with
retadred
printed on it, and the other a t-shirt with
Shit
printed on it.

"It's time to settle this once and for all," I'll say, producing a teak box and opening it to reveal a matched set of dueling pistols. Nervously eyeing the box, anvi will say, "Our populace was disarmed by our government years ago, a decision I've always wholeheartedly supported. I've never fired a gun before."

"Too bad," I'll declare, snatching up the first pistol, pointing it at his face, and pulling the trigger. With a "BANG!" a small flag reading "The tower defense genre is shit!" will pop out of the barrel and unfurl.

I hand him the second pistol. "Now you," I say. He pulls the trigger, blowing a hole clean through my sternum. "Finally, the sweet release of death," I'll say, bleeding out on the floor. My last words: "I resold my Star Citizen crowdfunding pledge ships for a huge profit, you son of a bitch."
 
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This is an adjustment to account for the level of inflation since the Steam release in 2016.
I literally cannot stop imagining this scenario as anything but some sort of pure autismal spectrum moment.
A developer rushing out of his office during his weekly pipe-to-liquid-distance observation and balancing hours in order to alert the entire team that technically they've been actually selling the game at a discounted sale due to inflation not matching a 1:1 price tag of their original selling price.
 
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This is an adjustment to account for the level of inflation since the Steam release in 2016.
I literally cannot stop imagining this scenario as anything but some sort of pure autismal spectrum moment.
A developer rushing out of his office during his weekly pipe-to-liquid-distance observation and balancing hours in order to alert the entire team that technically they've been actually selling the game at a discounted sale due to inflation not matching a 1:1 price tag of their original selling price.
They apparently still have great sales numbers even with no discounts, so they probably feel they can increase the price and inflation is just an excuse.
 

Ironmonk

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yeah... I don't see this action in a positive light... they never sold with a discount, and already got more money than needed to cover for the game development many times over and then some, this move is too weird... besides, many people around the world are getting hit by inflation, and probably for the majority of these people their salary didn't raise to compensate for the inflation.

Well, I could see it in a positive light, even if the rise was bigger IF they announced that the expansion would be free for everybody that already have the game.
 

Blaine

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Factorio is entertainment and therefore technically a luxury, rather than a staple or a necessity. It's not rice, fruit, water, electricity, warm clothing, insulin, epinephrine or housing, for example. No one is entitled to a discounted price on entertainment at any time, for any reason—not because you're broke, not because other developers tend to offer discounts, and not because the game "has been out for a while." On the other side of the same coin, Wube has no duty nor obligation to ever offer a discount to anyone.

You're not entitled to cheap entertainment. No one is. It's annoying when you can't afford everything you want, but feeling entitled to luxuries is wrong and dumb. You could just not fucking play them, or alternatively, steal them. Either is better than constantly clamoring for games to be cheap, cheap, cheap (which has ill effects on game development in and of itself, but that's a tangent for another thread).

That being said, I also really don't think Wube needed to raise the price. I do think they should pump every last cent they can from Factorio, but because so many people do feel entitled to a discount (with no solid justification for feeling so entitled), and also tend to feel that older games should be worth less, raising the price may discourage enough residual sales that they gain little to nothing while costing those who do buy the game more. Setting the price is always a delicate balance between higher/lower number of sales and more/less profit per sale. If they set the price to $100, for example, they'd definitely lose money, whereas setting it to $5 would also lose them money.
 

Demo.Graph

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You're not entitled to cheap entertainment.
I'm entitled to ahoy, matey!

I've actually bought Factorio (one of the few games I bought during the last decade). I had even considered buying a hundred or so copies just to throw them some money... but then they began doing stupid shit, so w/e.
 

Hellraiser

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You're not entitled to cheap entertainment. No one is. It's annoying when you can't afford everything you want, but feeling entitled to luxuries is wrong and dumb. You could just not fucking play them, or alternatively, steal them. Either is better than constantly clamoring for games to be cheap, cheap, cheap (which has ill effects on game development in and of itself, but that's a tangent for another thread).
I would add to this that honestly 5 bucks is fucking nothing on a one-time purchase, considering how much I pay more for essentials I spend money on daily/weekly. Drink less beer or whatever and save money, games have a better hours of entertainment to cost ratio than almost everything else anyway. I think only books can compete.

If you are in thirdworldia and 5 bucks more is a fortune then just pirate it. I wouldn't be surprised if Wube devs didn't care about such cases since they probably pirated a ton of shit they couldn't afford as kids/teens in the 90s themselves like everybody else in post-commie land did. So they probably realize there's no point in losing sleep over the publisher 'muh piracy ate sales revenue fallacy (lol 0 price goods will have ridiculous demand, do the suits sleep through economics 101 or something). I wouldn't in their shoes anyway.
 
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Blaine

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I would add to this that honestly 5 bucks is fucking nothing on a one-time purchase, considering how much I pay more for essentials I spend money on daily/weekly. Drink less beer or whatever and save money, games have a better hours of entertainment to cost ratio than almost everything else anyway. I think only books can compete.

Yeah, I literally ceased playing computer games months ago to devote all of my free time to kayaking, fishing, camping, hiking, and various outdoors-related handicraft projects (fly-tying, creating walking staves from branches I've foraged, etc.), and rest assured my hobby costs have gone up, not down. Mind you, I'm not a huge gearhead and I spend sensibly; for example, I get many of my bags, pouches, jackets, coats, and sundry from thrift stores, but it's still not cheap.

Speaking of which, it's incredible to me how many like-new, high-quality jackets, coats, and baggage items can be found at thrift stores. They must be shipped into rural areas like mine from very affluent areas where people discard virtually brand-new goods after barely using them. I never set foot in thrift stores in my life until very recently. I'm definitely not poor, but paying $3 for a quality gear duffel or day hiking knapsack instead of $40-60 allows me to reallocate my disposable income where it matters much more, for example on my Mystery Ranch multi-day hiking backpack, which cost hundreds of dollars and was worth every penny.

Anyway, everyone needs their circuses to go along with their bread, and I don't ever fault people for desiring entertainment (especially in the case of Factorio), but entitlement and an insistence on bottom-of-the-barrel pricing is no good.
 
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Oh.
I only now realized the reason they changed the price is so that the base game + future expansion ($35 + $35) bundle would be in line with the "new" $70 price AAA games ask for instead of the old $60 one.
:hmmm:
I completely forgot about the expansion existing in the first place, not to mention that it'll cost the same as the base game and I can't even have an opinion on the increase of cost on it because I've got 0 clue on what the hell it will even be.
 

Demo.Graph

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I wouldn't be surprised if Wube devs didn't care about such cases since they probably pirated a ton of shit they couldn't afford as kids/teens in the 90s themselves like everybody else in post-commie land did.
Judging by some of dev posts on Discord, they're indifferent to piracy.

Also, Wube is registered in London, so it's pretty much a reverse letter of marque.
 

lycanwarrior

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Jan 1, 2021
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Factorio is entertainment and therefore technically a luxury, rather than a staple or a necessity. It's not rice, fruit, water, electricity, warm clothing, insulin, epinephrine or housing, for example. No one is entitled to a discounted price on entertainment at any time, for any reason—not because you're broke, not because other developers tend to offer discounts, and not because the game "has been out for a while." On the other side of the same coin, Wube has no duty nor obligation to ever offer a discount to anyone.

You're not entitled to cheap entertainment. No one is. It's annoying when you can't afford everything you want, but feeling entitled to luxuries is wrong and dumb. You could just not fucking play them, or alternatively, steal them. Either is better than constantly clamoring for games to be cheap, cheap, cheap (which has ill effects on game development in and of itself, but that's a tangent for another thread).

That being said, I also really don't think Wube needed to raise the price. I do think they should pump every last cent they can from Factorio, but because so many people do feel entitled to a discount (with no solid justification for feeling so entitled), and also tend to feel that older games should be worth less, raising the price may discourage enough residual sales that they gain little to nothing while costing those who do buy the game more. Setting the price is always a delicate balance between higher/lower number of sales and more/less profit per sale. If they set the price to $100, for example, they'd definitely lose money, whereas setting it to $5 would also lose them money.
Great post. Just don't post this to Reddit or else expect major downvotes lol.

Turned into huge shitshow on r/games and r/pcgaming.
 
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Factorio multiplayer literally has a "verify that all users connecting have a legal copy with a factorio.com account" option that you can turn off to play full, normal MP with anyone who has pirated the game. So they clearly take an active interest in not worrying about piracy. It's not even some obscure hidden config file or command line switch, it's just right there in the hosting options when you host an MP game.

Regarding sales, they had a blog post where they mentioned that they've been making a consistent half a million copies sold per year which hasn't dipped despite the fact that the game has received basically nothing except bug fixes for years now and has obviously had no sales. Hard to say how the pricing change will work out but I kind of have a feeling that if you're willing to pay $30 you'll pay $35. If you're past around $5-$10 you're past the impulse buy-anything range into the mid-tier pricing range where there's not much distinguishing $30 from $40 or so. Just don't be near the holy $60-$70 that only supposed AAA games are allowed to charge on their release day.
 
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Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Or you make it a principle of never buying because of this bs. Makes you wonder what it will cost in 10 years time if we go down the inflation route.
 

Caim

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Or you make it a principle of never buying because of this bs. Makes you wonder what it will cost in 10 years time if we go down the inflation route.
It is 2064. Factorio is the first video game to hit $200 for just the base game.
 

Kruyurk

Learned
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Or you make it a principle of never buying because of this bs. Makes you wonder what it will cost in 10 years time if we go down the inflation route.
I don't know how much coins it's worth, but I assure you it's well worth your time.
 

Ironmonk

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IMHO, the main issue isn't the price per se, factorio really is worth more than the current price... the problem is the timing, the game was released a long time ago... while the natural course in the industry is for games to lower the base price and/or get discounts, they are setting the precedent of raising the price.

And if they don't care about piracy, that means they don't care about money (+they got very rich already) and if they don't care about money, why increase the price? Selling more or less will not make any difference to them at this point.

Now, my biggest concern is the many other devs that already have overpriced games start copying Wube.

I don't mind games that are truly good costing more, the problem is games that aren't truly good also increasing prices.
 

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