Awor Szurkrarz
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2009
- Messages
- 21,899
I hated that crap in BG2.
CorpseZeb said:But anyway, why even considering NPC behavior in context of “C&C”? In real world, you can tell anyone to do anything, but eventually, what they do depends of their free will, not yours. NPC always have an “excuse”, an excuse of their own cause, will, design of quest (read: will of God), whatever. At the other hand – player – should doesn't has any excuses of escaping from “C&C” - if he is a wizard, he can't fight with sword good enough to survive, because time intended to learn fighting, he spent learning spell making. Choices=consequences.
NoCorpseZeb said:Of course, no matter who you working for (NCR, House or that smiling robot) too, because only, only at very, very end you must choose
Excommunicator said:It isn't a matter of what the NPC decides, it is a matter of how a situation is presented to the player by the designer. What the character decides to do in the context of the world is not relevant to the concept of C&C. You're forgetting the separation of Player and Player-Character. CHOICE pertains to the options that the designer gives the PLAYER to determine/alter the experiences of the Character.
It's not a choice in "choices and consequences" sense. It's multiple quest solutions for different types of characters.sea said:Does "fake choice" include multiple options in solving a problem leading to the same result even if those options vary wildly? Think rescuing Tandi from the Khans: ultimately she gets back to Shady Sands (or dies), but the means you rescue her by can be quite different. Is this "fake" choice?
DragoFireheart said:Let's see, games with actual C&C:
Fallout 1
Fallout 2
Fallout: New Vegas (seeing a pattern here?)
Planescape: Torment
Morrowind (to a very minor degree)
That's all that comes to mind atm.
Er.TNO said:5) Choice has gameplay consequences
More points the more diverse these choices are. BG2's Thieves/Vamps and NWN2s similar Watch/Thieves options are not that great. I actually cannot think of an option of choices having any radical affect on the game.
Arcanum. Not a lot of thieving to do if you attack Lukan outright.sea said:Er.TNO said:5) Choice has gameplay consequences
More points the more diverse these choices are. BG2's Thieves/Vamps and NWN2s similar Watch/Thieves options are not that great. I actually cannot think of an option of choices having any radical affect on the game.
Grand Theft Auto IV?
Esquilax said:Also, you'd encounter those "Yes/Alright/If you insist" scenarios when confronting Andrei or talking to the Prince in order to drive the plot forward. I like Bloodlines a lot, but it had lots of fake C&C too.
TNO said:Levels of 'fake' CnC (in descending order of irritation)
1) Choice leads to exactly the same outcome.
Example: Mass Effect 1. There are a few occasions (Anderson asking about your dream, first audience with the council, etc.) where whichever one of the three similar options leads you to play exactly the same response, word for word. You can tell these occasions where you realize what you'd say would have fit just as well with the other options.
deuxhero said:Esquilax said:Also, you'd encounter those "Yes/Alright/If you insist" scenarios when confronting Andrei or talking to the Prince in order to drive the plot forward. I like Bloodlines a lot, but it had lots of fake C&C too.
False: If you aren't Nosferatu or Tremere, they have a very solid effect, as failure to suck up to him means you don't get the 2nd haven. I think he gives you more money if you do as well.
I noticed that too, also that sabbat building where you fight Andrei for the second time looked like it could be the sabbat haven.SCO said:I'm pretty sure there was a sabbat path conceived of at some point - the dialog is just too leading.
SCO said:Shut up. You're higher generation. Two in fact.
SCO said:Yeah i larped that like a motherfucker - my guy build a new Enoch in my mind.