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Gnidrologist

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Jasede said:
No, about 25%, maybe 33% are useless. I don't have the list on front of me but there's a lot of junk there.
Well that's nothing, when you consider that about 80-90% perks, or how are they called there, in d&d ar complete junk. At least when implemented in crpg.
Is there actuall any crpg, that could be singled out for having most of it's skills/traits/perks usefull?
 

Jasede

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
When I played NWN, IWD 2, ToEE they had the same ratio of useful/useless as Fallout.

edit: as if this mattered. FO isn't worse just because it has a high amount of useless things. The more stuff the better. See Daggerfall, RoA.
 

elander_

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Among 50 perks that exist in Fallout only these are affected by the game not being TB: Earlier Sequence, Quick Pockets, Bonus HtH Attacks, Bonus Move, Bonus Rate of Fire and Action Boy. It's not much.

Being first person and blending player reflexes with char skill won't stop a game from being a spiritual successor to Fallout. It's dumbfuck Bethesda doing it that is the problem.

Jasede said:
When I played NWN, IWD 2, ToEE they had the same ratio of useful/useless as Fallout.

Complete nonsense.
 

Kingston

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Brother None said:
Kingston said:
Obviously, the game’s pedigree is second to none, but this is a radical departure from the first two titles. What elements have you been careful to preserve as Fallout makes the jump to 3D?

Todd Howard: The world around you and the lore of the Fallout world, it’s very important to us, and we’ve always loved it. It was that world we wanted to make come alive. In addition, I think the basic character system of Fallout, with your SPECIAL attributes and perks, is something we’ve tried hard to maintain. It’s a great system, where you have to make hard choices and those choices really define who you’re going to be and what type of game you’re going to play.

I think "In addition" is a great way to talk about the core mechanics. Also, "something we’ve tried hard to maintain". It's a sequel, how hard can it be?

Considering SPECIAL was built as a pen and paper adaptation of GURPS to a post-apocalyptic game, and considering their game utilizes FPS mechanics, I'd say it's pretty hard to maintain quite a number of SPECIAL's mechanics, especially when it comes to perks and skills.

I realise this, I was just (trying) to point out the absurdity of having a hard time including core mechanics of a series in a sequel.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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elander_ said:
Being first person and blending player reflexes with char skill won't stop a game from being a spiritual successor to Fallout.

There's a big difference between a "spiritual successor" and being a "sequel". The problem is that Fallout 3 isn't supposed to be a "spirital successor", it's supposed to be a "sequel". Even then, spiritual successors tend to share a lot in common with the mold that came before them including play style.
 

elander_

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Fallout 3 should have been a sequel as the name implies but apparently Bethesda is more interested in making a spiritual successor than a true sequel and change combat game play to first person in real time. VATS is just a weird bullet time thing. I was able to play Fallout using non-combat skills like speech and science or an alternative stealth science character. This is the minimum i expect from a spiritual successor. That and some accuracy to the lore since they clame they will be using the same world. I enjoyed Bloodlines and i think the way they blended reflexes and skills could work well for a Fallout spiritual successor.
 

Brother None

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elander_ said:
Among 50 perks that exist in Fallout only these are affected by the game not being TB: Earlier Sequence, Quick Pockets, Bonus HtH Attacks, Bonus Move, Bonus Rate of Fire and Action Boy. It's not much.

Only these are affected directly by not being TB/iso. Because the game is no longer TB and isometric, all combat and stealth related perks are affected somehow. Just not directly.
 

Cimmerian Nights

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elander_ said:
Fallout 3 should have been a sequel as the name implies but apparently Bethesda is more interested in making a spiritual successor than a true sequel

They're making the officially licensed sequel as their ownership of the IP entitles them to do.

Spiritual successor imples that the game carries on the general gameplay and feel despite superficial differences. Just like Fallout was the spiritual successor to Wasteland. I might even argue that Arcanum is the spiritual succesor of Fallout.

Ausir said:
Fallout 3 is a spiritual succesor to Oblivion.
That's the gist of it.
 

elander_

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Cimmerian Nights said:
Spiritual successor imples that the game carries on the general gameplay and feel despite superficial differences. Just like Fallout was the spiritual successor to Wasteland. I might even argue that Arcanum is the spiritual succesor of Fallout.

I'm not going to argue over definitions. I personally don't see the choice of combat system flavor as something essential to dismiss a game as a spiritual successor. As long as we have a good variety of skills and they impose restrictions to player skill i'm OK with it. You can have a targeting scope like in DeusEx and Bloodlines that effectively messes up with your targeting and prevent the player from taking advantage of his reflexes too much.

It's also possible to play TB games in first person view and this could be interesting. JA2 is isometric but simulates field of view by hiding or shading npcs you can't see. You can get surprised by an enemy if you don't leave some companions watching over all angles of vision and interrupts only work if someone sees an enemy. This adds a new tactical dimension to combat.
 

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