Fallout 3: the Technopaladins

[Naked Ninja]

Why must there always be fierce young warrior women? Why? Why?

Wait, I know the answer, don't say anything.

So basically the plot is that there is a device to make more Super mutants in DC (which isn't actually unbelievable, but their presentation of this plot sucks, we already know it now, so much for a surprise.), the brotherhood have found some awesome doohickey, and you must choose which side to support?

And yeah, Lyons as "the good king struggling to do the best for his people" is tedious. If he had found Awesome Dingus and immediately splintered off from the main branch to greedily hoard it all for himself, that might have been decent. If he had splintered off because he found out the BoS had plans for Dingus which he couldn't morally accept, still ok. It's just too frikken morally simple. It's like the plots 14 year olds come up with for their PnP campaigns. Even if he later springs a backflip and goes "mwahaha, I'm gonna blow up everything!" its still crap. I don't want a sub-par twist, I want to be unsure where I stand the whole time. Make me sweat over my choices.

And yes, those pics seem to contain no hints of the retro sci-fi thing from the originals at all. Although, thinking about it the other day, the fatman min-nukes and radiation telephone booths actually do. Yeah, they are completely rediculous. But that's the kind of thing the old sci-fi authors pictured about the future. Nuclear powered tea kettles and running shoes and shite.

 

[thesheeep]

*sad*

...why, Bethesda, why?

Well, at least they got their devotion to technology right.
But, a medieval-like knightly order, striving to protect innocents? Wtf? Emil should be ashamed... even if this had nothing to do with Fallout, that stuff is just overused cliché.

If they would just fortify their position to get more power and equipment, and by doing so also protecting the people as a side effect, that would be more like it. But nooo.... there always have to be some glorious heroes, eh? God damn it >.<
I liked the way the BoS were presented in tactics (well, except the Zeppelin stuff, etc.).

Need to play some Super Mario Galaxy to calm down...

 

[callehe]

*shudder*

I got the same feeling from reading this story as when reading the continuation of the Dune series written by Frank Herbert's son - a weird sense of amused embarrassment.

 

[kris]

It's like the plots 14 year olds come up with for their PnP campaigns.

14 year old me feels really hurt right now.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

Batilla was a SENTINAL jedi and that BoS girl is a sentinal in the BoS(!)

That comment about Fo3 being fanfic is funny and true, this whole knight thing is highly unoriginal and just designed to be sci-fi -high fantasy hybrid

 

[Naked Ninja]

14 year old me feels really hurt right now.

14 years old and Emo, 2 times a loser.


jk

 

[yns88]

I'm not sure if you guys read the same article as me, but from what I read the DC Brotherhood of Steel is not the one you all know and love, and there's a very good chance the Supermutants aren't connected to the West Coast ones either. The DC "Brotherhood of Steel" is indeed a neo-knightly organization, and this does not directly contradict canon (though it still is a poor setting design choice).

The Outcasts are the "real" Brotherhood of Steel, as they're the only ones who retained the original mentality. If I play the game, I'll almost certainly follow in their lead (even though they may seem like the "gray" choice between the "white" choice and the unannounced "black" choice).

However, the concept art is all very fantasy-ish, and it makes me sad

All in all, it's a perfect setup by Bethesda to make up all the shit they want without worrying about contradicting TEH LORE. Mostly bad but a few slight redeeming features.

edit: Oh, and until they outright call this Lion Pride fur convention the GOOD GUYS, I still have the slightest sliver of hope that Bethesda might just make them real ugly under a few layers of the surface. Call it a "plot twist" if you may.

 

[Joe Krow]

I just hope it is more along the lines of Morrowind and less like Oblivion. It's pretty much has to be with this setting. Bethesda does the "gritty" world pretty well in my opinion. Now if they can just remember that it's an rpg (as in your character has stats and a personality) I have high hopes. All the plot holes you folks harp on can easily be explained. Organizations splinter and evolve. Leaving your fort to head east, depending on others, coming to understand the that people will give you their technology in exchange for protection. Spend a little time considering the possibilities. Not every change is going to be arbitrary or bad. Change can be good.

 

[Section8]

I'm not sure if you guys read the same article as me, but from what I read the DC Brotherhood of Steel is not the one you all know and love, [...] The DC "Brotherhood of Steel" is indeed a neo-knightly organization, and this does not directly contradict canon (though it still is a poor setting design choice).

The thing is, we've already accepted that the whole reason for setting it on the east coast was so they could take a few liberties with backstory. The problem is, they haven't done anything original with their freedom. They've shoehorned a couple of dominant factions and completely reworked them to be black and white moral opposites - and best of all, still haven't properly addressed the implausibility of either being on the east coast.

It would be like if the Keepers from Thief suddenly formed a splinter group who travelled thousands of miles through undead infested terrain with their seven-year-old daughters and no explanation as to how they did it. The splinter group is also called the Keepers, and they dedicate their time towards ass-kicking in the name of good. More often than not, they're kicking the asses of the Hammers, a thuggish group of completely evil Westham supporters who are known for wielding sawn-off pool cues when they scrap.

The whole thing is like a sick metaphor for Bethesda's use of the Fallout license to begin with. Why bother with a backstory if you're just going to change it adnauseum to suit your own simplistic moral view?

and there's a very good chance the Supermutants aren't connected to the West Coast ones either.

Again, then why magically transplant a major faction, change the way they look and act and completely alter their backstory and origins?

It would be like making a Blade Runner game where you play as a character called Rick Deckard (no relation to the one from the movie) and you're hired by the indisputable good guys to hunt Replicants (who aren't actually androids manufactured by the Tyrell corporation, they're just evil humans.)

Or a Star Wars game where the Rebel Alliance, an offshoot of the actual Rebel Alliance consisting only of Jedi, do battle against the Empire (not the one you're thinking of) and a third Death Star, which is actually an artificial ringworld resembling a halo.

You can talk all you want about not contradicting the lore, but why use the lore if you're only going to magically transport it thousands of miles away and say "this isn't the same faction you know, even though it has the same name"?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I am not Fallout fan enough to feel particularly disturbed by this story. It strikes me as reasonable enough, if not exactly oozing greatness. The rift within the eastern BoS, could actually be an interesting subject. Then of course, Bethesda has made short work of interesting subjects in a certain recent game, so I am not saying...

 

[Bradylama]

What weirds me out the most is how the concept art doesn't seem either retro-futuristic or even distant-futurey, it's practically alien. It reminds me of Giger-esque forms emerging from the living machine, which is a great testament for the concept artists if not their director.

 

[kingcomrade]

Why must there always be fierce young warrior women? Why? Why?

What are you, some kind of patriarch?

 

[thesheeep]

Whats so wrong about patriarchs?....

What weirds me out the most is how the concept art doesn't seem either retro-futuristic or even distant-futurey, it's practically alien. It reminds me of Giger-esque forms emerging from the living machine, which is a great testament for the concept artists if not their director.

Yup. I got used to how the BoS "Plate Armor" looks... but that other stuff, the weapons, the suits... it all looks way too sci-fi. I would percieve none of this as retro-futuristic 50s or 60s stuff.

If the game would take place 200 years more into the future, I wouldn't mind that (even in a blown-to-hell world, things develop, you know?), but this way ..

 

[fastpunk]

These Beth people have no idea in what direction they should be taking this game... which would somewhat explain their move to the east coast. But I don't think that's because they're morons. They just haven't done much research. I mean it's so obvious from all those interviews with guys on the team who haven't even played FO. You have lead artists on the project that have never played a FO game before. WTF do you expect? It's gonna be a total clusterfuck! But don't worry, FO3 is going to sell hella good, it's gonna get a ton of GotY awards and Beth will celebrate another smashing success.

 

[cuthbert]

This reminds me of the prediction of the story I made awhile back of some brotherhood of steel members going west. I wonder if the prediction of your father creating the super mutants, you fighting them and taking back the vault in the end will be true also.

 

[scypior]

Yup. I got used to how the BoS "Plate Armor" looks... but that other stuff, the weapons, the suits... it all looks way too sci-fi. I would percieve none of this as retro-futuristic 50s or 60s stuff.

It can be little inconsistent not between the original franchise and the F3, but in the F3 itself- they take PA as some trademark (as in previous games - it was on cover), and it's somehow similar to the old ones. But the other BoS arts are closer to tactics than to original fallout.

Vault 101 - it's fairly similar to the original ones. The other locations may be not. This could be really fucked up;p

 

[Claw]

It strikes me as reasonable enough, if not exactly oozing greatness.

Then you're dumber than I thought. Just like Oblivion isn't a bad RPG so much as a bad game, and more like an electronic toy, although still not a very good one in my opinion, the story isn't just dumb in the context of Fallout, it's dumb in the context of common sense. You don't travel across the whole continent in the hope of finding something useful on the other side. Why can't they search the same in a less remote location? Secondly, finding a huge cache or weapons and technology under the Pentagon is daft.
Furthermore, virtually every single element of the story is terribly, terribly chlichéd.

 

[yns88]

I just hope it is more along the lines of Morrowind and less like Oblivion.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Oblivion was a massive financial success, and Bethesda doesn't seem to mind that half the gaming community has retroactively titled their prime series The Oblivion Scrolls. Bethesda may decide to meander in a few odd directions from Oblivion, but there will be almost no backstepping, and I'm just as sure of this as I am of backstepping being a word.

Also, SectionB: My post agreed with your general gist, and reading Brother None's say on the topic has opened my barbarian eyes to most of the intricacies of the whole deal, but your analogies are way over the top. Joe Gamer who played and enjoyed Fallout will agree that this decision seems idiotic even under the most optimistic light, but it is not so blatant as to be "shitting on canon" to paraphrase earlier discussion in this thread. But Bethesda does seem to have some real trouble with names, though, don't they? First they call a derivative title a direct sequel, then they mistitle the Brotherhood of Steel. What's next?

- Supermutants are the fertile ORK creations of the dying Pooper Mutants (who hopped and skipped along the Midwest after their Master died)

- The Enclave are ultimately revealed as the puppet-masters of the Outcasts in a JUST AS PLANNED scene

- "Washington DC" and "The Pentagon" are really just Hollywood sets and the game takes place on the West Coast after all.

edit: My earlier "Joe Gamer" analogy went tangential and doesn't make any sense, sorry. I wanted to make a point of the average fallout 1 player realizing that something is wrong with this new story, but not quite noticing the numerous minor inconsistencies that render it into a major plot contradiction.

edit to the Walkin' Dude: And I bet Daggerfall wasn't a financial success, rite?

 

[Texas Red]

And Morrowind wasn't a financial success? It sold millions of copies. If Oblivion sold better its only because Morrowind was released in 2002.

 

[Joe Krow]

I just hope it is more along the lines of Morrowind and less like Oblivion.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Oblivion was a massive financial success, and Bethesda doesn't seem to mind that half the gaming community has retroactively titled their prime series The Oblivion Scrolls. Bethesda may decide to meander in a few odd directions from Oblivion, but there will be almost no backstepping, and I'm just as sure of this as I am of backstepping being a word.

By that logic Oblivion would have been a Morrowind clone. I don't believe the changes Bethesda makes are motivated by money so much as resulting in money. Bethesda's genius is knowing which way the wind is blowing. That's why their success is so frustrating for some... they push the old school rpg further into its niche. Regardless, they have a clean slate now (despite our nit-picking), let's hope the winds have changed. Somehow I doubt it...

 

[Ausir]

I know it has several meanings, but it also has religious overtones.

Yeah, "the entire Shakespeare canon" is so religious... The word "canon" is used pretty commonly to refer to the officially/commonly accepted version of a given fictional universe (e.g. the Middle-earth canon, the Star Wars canon, Star Trek canon and Fallout canon).

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

It strikes me as reasonable enough, if not exactly oozing greatness.

Then you're dumber than I thought. Just like Oblivion isn't a bad RPG so much as a bad game, and more like an electronic toy, although still not a very good one in my opinion, the story isn't just dumb in the context of Fallout, it's dumb in the context of common sense. You don't travel across the whole continent in the hope of finding something useful on the other side. Why can't they search the same in a less remote location? Secondly, finding a huge cache or weapons and technology under the Pentagon is daft.
Furthermore, virtually every single element of the story is terribly, terribly chlichéd.

My IQ has little to do with it. Look, I am resigned to the fact that this is not an actual sequel to Fallout. But as you may remember, I really liked Morrowind (and DF). I also have no problem with many individual aspects of Oblivion, although the game in its entirety sucked. So, cliché story is probably a given, as is sandbox style and bloom. But a cliche sandbox game in a fallout inspired world, if it has some choice and consequence (which of course remains to be seen) and if the cliché is at least well thought out, simply doesn't sound too bad to me.

 

[Trash]

Untill recently I was willing to give FO3 a chance. I was absolutely sure it would lose anything that made fallout such a great rpg, but it just might have turned out to be a decent game.

The more I hear though it becomes apparant that FO3 will indeed be just Oblivion with guns thrown in. With the possibility of having an even worse storyline. What a waste of a great license.

 

[VonVentrue]

These are interesting times... Fallout 3 - a game set in a "fallout inspired world".

To make matters worse, some people feel rather pleased with this state of affairs...

 

[aries202]

To me, what is really frustrating about this, is the fact :!: that Bethesda themselves said that neither tactics or BoS (the game) would be considered canon. And then they pull this off - dong just the opposite, going with the Brotherhood of Steel being sheriffs in the Wasteland, protecting the innocent against the -ehm- ahem- bad or very bad supermutants. I agree with Brother None's posts, both here and on NMA, Bethesda has failed to get the meaning and basic idea behind the Fallout world.

I'm certain the game would still be fun to play, but it would be more like the Oblivion with Gunz we all feared it would be instead of a Fallout game. I woulld have been a lot happier about this if Bethesda just had made their own game in a post apoc environment or even renamed Fallout 3 to Fallout - the East Coast Story or something like that.

Given Emil's dev diary on the official fallout site, I'm not that happy with the explanation for how the Brotherhood came to the East Coast. Maybe they jiust could have gone with a similar organization. As a Fallout-fan, it would have been nice, of course, to see the BoS and Supermutants, on the East Coast, but it has to fit into the story e.g. the verisimilitude of the Fallout setting. For my money, Bethesa coukd have scrapped the BoS and the Supermutants on the East Coast and the come wtih a story of how a military organization rose to power protecting the innocent from -ehm- ghouls and genetic engineered people. That would have made the game more of Bethesda's creation instead of them just relying on other people's creative ideas.

Slightly off topic: I still don't get the idea with our leaving Vault 101 looking for Qui-Gong, ehm, I mean your Father.