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Fallout 4 Pre-Announcement Bullshit Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

Discussion in 'Bethesda Game Studios' started by Syril, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. Koschey Arcane Patron

    Koschey
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    Integrity? Oh, wait, we're talking [AAA dev or publisher].
    :troll:
     
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  2. Scruffy The janitor Patron

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    Codex 2012 Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014
    so you're saying that Witcher3 going all obliviony/skyrimy might improve future Derpthesda games?
    one can only hope, but for some reason i am very skeptical of this... i feel that the retarded fanboy theory makes more sense
     
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  3. markec Twitterbot Patron

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    Yet New Vegas was a smashing hit that even many of F3 fans preferred, and it was more complex and consistent game then F3 done in far smaller budget and time frame. New Bethesda games did gain popularity by having shiny graphics, being accessible and offering players sandbox gameplay, but that doesnt mean Oblivion, F3 or Skyrim would have been less accepted if they had better writing, more consistent world, better balanced gameplay etc. The thing is that Bethesda either cant (because they are incompetent) or wont (because they dont care) create detailed and complex worlds since they have the money and time to make them.
     
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  4. Tommy Wiseau Arcane

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    They prioritize world-building over RPG elements.
     
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  5. karfhud Savant

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    Well, truth is, compared to F:NV, F3 is still more successful in terms of sales, as much as it saddens me. That's also a quirky case, as New Vegas used a lot of assets from F3. Basically, most of Obsidian's budget could go into other elements, like voice acting (which is a relief, since engine + assets cost a huge chunk of game's budget). There's also another factor to consider here - F:NV was also an exploration game. So the same kiddos that enjoyed F3 gave New Vegas a similar spin, enjoyed exploration, but did they actually delve into the numerous sidequests? They certainly didn't have to; unfortunately, it's not something that can be assessed properly and proved.

    Now take PS:T as an example. Can you enjoy the game if you don't appreciate all the writing? Doubtful.
     
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  6. sea inXile Entertainment Developer

    sea
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    In my experience, most modern Bethesda fans really do not have a clue about good vs. bad quest design, complexity of interaction, choice & consequence, etc. I think most of Obsidian's positive changes were lost on that audience, much more so than "a bigger nuke launcher!!!!" would be.
     
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  7. karfhud Savant

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    That was part of my point, yeah.
     
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  8. markec Twitterbot Patron

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    Actually I believe that NV outsold F3.


    True but that does not excuse poor writing, poor quest design, poor world design, pretty much every element was poor at best in F3 and inferior to NV and they worked on that game for 4 years while Obsidian had little more then a year. Are you going to tell me that Bethesda worked on creating assets for 3.5 years and then rushed building the game in the last half year and that that is the reason why F3 is a piece of shit.



    NV is pretty much same game as F3 only much better in every department thats my point.

    Your point is? Who says they didnt play NV for 7 times and finish every quest and loved it a lot better then F3, can that be proved. The point is that the game outsold F3, got great reception even among Beth fanboys, was objectively far better game then F3 and was done in less the half effort needed for F3.



    But what kind of legacy would PS:T have today if it was first person game that looked like Doom, had cheap synthesizer music and was designed as one long corridor. Great games are sum of great things, what made PS:T classic is not only the writing but also things like art design and soundtrack. NV has its faults but also many great elements, F3 nothing.
     
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  9. karfhud Savant

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    I'd like to finish this back-and-forth, because there's really no point in dragging this further. Check sales statistics for both games. What you believe isn't really relevant here, after all ;) I'm not a big fan of crucifying Fallout 3, I need to make this clear. While I enjoyed every other Fallout a gazillion times more, it doesn't mean that Beth's take was abysmally bad. There were elements they did pretty well, some quests were memorable (although characters, not so much). For god's sake, it did feel good to play a new Fallout game, back then in 2008.

    Sea grasped what I meant in terms of NV appealing to F3 fans.

    You didn't quite understand my point here. Take the most important element out of Torment - what do you end up with? Writing was absolutely crucial. Music, sound effects, art design were superb and completed the game, true, but writing was its spine. Take exploration and a big, open world out of NV and focus on story elements and quests - do you still have the same, huge audience?
     
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  10. Rahdulan Arcane Patron

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    Thing is that most of them essentially want a hiking simulator/walkabout game/however you want to call it, especially considering that's what Bethesda is best at because as others said they don't really have direct competition to keep them on their toes. Main thing people complained about in New Vegas was "why I am walled in?" all the while ignoring all the positive improvements Obsidian did in the effort to, you know, make the game an actual RPG once again after Fallout 3. Basically, I'm long-windedly agreeing with you.
     
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  11. markec Twitterbot Patron

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    Well I did check and I remembered the news that in same time frame (one month after release) NV had more shipped units. Now shipped does not mean pure sales for both titles and we can only guess here. I assume your 100% sure attitude comes from VGChartz which many dont take seriously and consider that site just pulling numbers from their asses since some disturbers dont put out their sales figure on the open.


    Well thats your opinion and it really doesnt matter just like mine which is that F3 was abysmally bad, objectively looking NV is far better game, while I can understand some liking F3 more due its theme park exploration it has nothing to do with this discussion.



    You can say the same for F3, but imagine that shit focusing only on story and dialog, that would be disaster by Uwe Boll standards.

    NV is what it is there is not point to arguing what might be, like if we replace all npc with Care Bears would it still then have same huge audience. The point of this while discussion is that Obsidian made same game as Bethsda only much better and with far less resources.
     
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  12. karfhud Savant

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    Yeah, I did refer to vgcharts, for lack of a better source.

    To sum up and clarify yet again - I love F:NV. I put it closely behind PS:T as my second all-time favourite cRPG. Chris Avellone and Josh Sawyer have their separate altars of worship in my apartment. Discussion started from "Bethesda has such a gigantic budget, why aren't they making quality games?". I uphold my point that there's no money in making games like F3, up from scratch (you can argue all you want but Obsidian did use a lot of F3 assets, fact; luckily they've put them to a good use), but with the story sophistication of New Vegas. I wish there was, but apparently there's not. Maybe the new generation of games will change that.
     
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  13. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    This.

    We can call Bethesda retards all day long but they're still making billions because they focus on what sells their games.
     
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  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Multiple sources have confirmed that Fallout: New Vegas outsold Fallout 3. Roguey and Duraframe300 can tell you more.
     
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  15. Lancehead Liturgist

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    And neglect some incredible potential; there are few things better in gaming than to explore worlds with RPG systems.
     
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  16. Mastermind Cognito Elite Material Patron Bethestard

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    53 pages for a game that doesn't exist. Codex... :lol:
     
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  17. karfhud Savant

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    Fair enough.
     
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  18. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

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    Uh huh.
     
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  19. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    I don't think that really changes anything as far as why Bethesda games sell.
     
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  20. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Right now Bethesda don't feel they need to make their games any deeper in order to succeed. But that could change if a credible competitor shows up on the scene and gets lots of kudos from the gaming public and press about its greater depth compared to Bethesda's games. It doesn't even have to sell as much as a Bethesda game. It just needs to sell enough and gain enough positive word of mouth that the Bethesda designers get worried and realize they need to improve their game.

    Fallout: New Vegas could have been that game, but I guess its status as a spin-off and reputation as a "buggy Obsidian game" prevented that from occurring.
     
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  21. Ovg Cipher

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    Absolutely unlikely to happen. Unwashed masses already, as you said refused F:NV due to "buggy Obsidian game" and hail Fallout 3 as a second coming of christ. On the other hand, there is no credible competitor, and I don't think it's likely that one may come. Fallout is now once again a major franchise due to how lot's of shit popped up after Fallout 3, things like this inane "show" and so many damn cosplayers. We'll stay in shit, if something like that comes, something deeper and more mature, people will refute it on how it offends their delicate morality or is too confusing. Positive word of mouth would be only on the dex, and we know how many fucks bethesda gives about us.

    So I guess, Fallout 4 will be shit, and we're gonna get under siege again, with milions of "WHY U HATE FALL 4 ITZ GOOD" threads everywhere.
     
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  22. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Oh I agree with that for sure, all kings of the hill are only there until someone knocks them off. I think the way to do that is to make a better playground though, more than anything else.
     
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  23. Dreaad Arcane

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    There is however a very strong possibility that things develop the down the :decline: pathway. For example a competitor does come along that challenges Bethesda's hiking simulators.... the natural way forward in today's age of bromance would be for Bethesda to leave everything as is and add herp a derp companions whilst further removing rpg elements. In my opinion this is in fact far more likely, then them suddenly realizing the error of their ways and going back to something interesting and mildly complicated like Morrowind.
     
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  24. Azrael the cat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    I can imagine Bethesda being sufficiently aware of the market to start diversifying to folk who want more depth in their games, if they faced significant competition (1-2 competitors wouldn't mean much) - but not with their flagship series now that it's moved into the mass market. More likely they'd start a spinoff or separate franchise, or more likely still a substudio under a different name so that fans don't confuse the two, and use that for crpgs aimed at smaller market segments.
     
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  25. Hirato Purse-Owner Patron

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    Fallout 3's existence proves that they are incompetent at even this.
     
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